Transporting loaded mag's?

[Lambo2936 297]

Hey, just curious, since i spend 30+ minutes of range time every time i go loading mags, is it legal to load AR mag's and such before i head out, lock them in ammo boxes, and transport them with extra ammo in the back seat if the guns are locked in my truck bed?
Just curious.. would save me a ton of range time and money in the long run (costs 4$/hr/person).
I'd imagine its not, but who knows.

Thanks!

[rtquig 45]

It is legal.

[mikeyjones 88]

Its legal.

 

Just don't keep the gun loaded.

 

Mags in a different container or different pocket of range bag is fine.

 

 

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[NJGF 375]

This is a gray area. The magazine could be considered part of the gun and you can't have a loaded "gun" when transporting.

[SmartAss 11]

The firearm can't be loaded if the magazine(s) is in a separate container (assuming empty chamber).

 

Same applies to moon and Garand clips.

[mikeyjones 88]

This is a gray area. The magazine could be considered part of the gun and you can't have a loaded "gun" when transporting.

Please show the case law where this precedent is set.

 

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[Schrödinger's cat 87]

I don't think they need to be locked in ammo boxes.

[Lambo2936 297]

I keep the ammo always locked regardless. Thanks for responding though, glad i can do so.. will load up tonight so i can go straight to shootin in the AM.

Thanks!

[Ricky_Bobby 130]

The way I've understood it and I've read the law many many times on transport is that firearm is kept unloaded empty chamber etc, and locked separately from ammo -

 

I usually lock up my pistol in its case, take the mags out of the pistol case and put them in one of my ammo boxes with a spare box or two of ammo and lock that up (I keep Plano lockable Field/Ammo boxes the green ones), put both in my trunk and I'm good to go.  Someone please clarify if this is incorrect.

[Lambo2936 297]

I keep ammo in the back seat, firearms in the trunk.

[Ricky_Bobby 130]

I don't have a trunk in my cars (SUV and a wagon) - but if I did I might split them up

[Old Glock guy 1,127]

Evan Nappen (New Jersey's preeminent gun lawyer) says they are illegal, but everyone else seems to think they are OK.

 

It would be nice to know for sure that they are legal, as one could then keep a long gun in ones trunk (as permitted under NJ law, with FID),

and some loaded mags nearby in case things went suddenly bad.

[Schrödinger's cat 87]

The way I've understood it and I've read the law many many times on transport is that firearm is kept unloaded empty chamber etc, and locked separately from ammo -

 

 

I don't post information that I don't know to be correct so I'll wait for someone a little more knowledgable to reply. I seem to remember there being interstate transport laws and in state laws. IIRC while traveling in state ammo should be kept separate from your unloaded gun in a case or bag but can be unlocked and near your gun case. I believe the SP website quotes the interstate travel laws. Again, I have not read up on this in a few years so please don't act on this and hopefully someone with real knowledge will chime in.

[ogfarmer 138]

Evan Nappen (New Jersey's preeminent gun lawyer) says they are illegal, but everyone else seems to think they are OK.

 

It would be nice to know for sure that they are legal, as one could then keep a long gun in ones trunk (as permitted under NJ law, with FID),

and some loaded mags nearby in case things went suddenly bad.

[Pizza Bob 1,488]

Evan Nappen (New Jersey's preeminent gun lawyer) says they are illegal, but everyone else seems to think they are OK.

 

It would be nice to know for sure that they are legal, as one could then keep a long gun in ones trunk (as permitted under NJ law, with FID),

and some loaded mags nearby in case things went suddenly bad.

There is no statute that prohibits the transportation of loaded mags. Nappen did not state that it is illegal, he speaks to possible LEO misinterpretation and recommends against it. I say that if a LEO is already digging around in your range bag, those loaded mags are probably the least of your problems. You do what you wish, but let's not continue to spread misinformation. Another case of being our own worst enemy.

 

Adios,

 

Pizza Bob

[NJGF 375]

I first heard about this in a class with Nappen. They are definitely being cautious on this (it is NJ after all). The following letter was from 2005:

 

From: "Richard V. Gilbert, Esquire" <[email protected]> [Add to Address Book] [View Source]
To: <[email protected]>
Date: Thu, 13 Oct 2005 21:06:45 +0000
Dear Tom-

My name is Richard Gilbert, Esq. I am Evan's partner. 

Do NOT carry a loaded magazine when you transport firearms. Police and prosecutors will consider it "part of the gun" and it makes a firearm more quickly usable. The gun would be considered loaded, and it would place you outside the exemptions for proper transportation of the firearm. 

Therefore, you would likely be charged with Unlawful Possession of a Weapon, which is a third degree crime (punishable by up to five years in State prison). 

It is simply not worth the risk.

Good shooting!

Rich Gilbert

[AverageJoe 95]

I first heard about this in a class with Nappen. They are definitely being cautious on this (it is NJ after all). The following letter was from 2005:

 

From: "Richard V. Gilbert, Esquire" <[email protected]> [Add to Address Book] [View Source]

To: <[email protected]>

Date: Thu, 13 Oct 2005 21:06:45 +0000

Dear Tom-

 

My name is Richard Gilbert, Esq. I am Evan's partner. 

 

Do NOT carry a loaded magazine when you transport firearms. Police and prosecutors will consider it "part of the gun" and it makes a firearm more quickly usable. The gun would be considered loaded, and it would place you outside the exemptions for proper transportation of the firearm. 

 

Therefore, you would likely be charged with Unlawful Possession of a Weapon, which is a third degree crime (punishable by up to five years in State prison). 

 

It is simply not worth the risk.

 

Good shooting!

 

Rich Gilbert

Ask Richard to provide the statute where it states it's "part of the gun"

 

How To Transport

• Unloaded: The firearm must be unloaded, as in there must be no ammunition in the gun. NJ defines the word firearm meaning the actual gun, under current law transportation of a loaded magazine would not be considered a loaded gun

[GRIZ 3,369]

Loaded magazines could get you arrested ib some states. Maybe. NJ isn't one of them.

 

IANAL but did enforce the law for over 30 years, most of that time in NJ. I saw what Nappen and Gilbert said. However I don't know of a single case of someone being arrested let alone convicted of having a loaded magazine in the car. I wonder where Nappen and Gilbert got the idea that "police and prosecutors" would consider a loaded magazine a loaded firearm. Did try defend hundreds of people who were arrested for this? I think not. This is where they lose some credibility with me.

 

Ohio was one state that considered a loaded magazine in the presence of a firearm that magazine was designed for loaded. The law was written something to the effect that if ammunition was in the chamber or "any part of the firearm" it was loaded. We can speculate why they wrote the law that way. Ohio changed the law 2 or 3 years ago to reflect what a range safety officer would call loaded.

[High Exposure 5,664]

IANAL

 

He is a lawyer. He's paid to be cautious - and, like it or not, keeping mags empty during transport definitely won't be in issue while carrying loaded mags may be an issue, even if it technically shouldn't be.

 

His hangup is likely what I call the "NJ TWIST" - everything is illegal unless otherwise exempted. They don't say its expressly legal, so it is illegal. Lawyers here tend to think about everything firearms related that way.

 

The other issue is NJ does not define what is considered a loaded firearm.

 

Personally, I think you are fine and I would transport loaded mags with no concerns. But I see the sense in being cautious. Saving 20 minutes at the range could cost you much more than that.

[Blank 60]

Not worth the risk...Your trusting the cops know the law...

[checko 180]

 

 

There is no statute that prohibits the transportation of loaded mags. Nappen did not state that it is illegal, he speaks to possible LEO misinterpretation and recommends against it. I say that if a LEO is already digging around in your range bag, those loaded mags are probably the least of your problems. You do what you wish, but let's not continue to spread misinformation. Another case of being our own worst enemy.

 

Adios,

 

Pizza Bob

This. All day.

 

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[AverageJoe 95]

Never use up all your ammo at the range either...save some for the ride home  

[Golf battery 1,223]

Just dont load your 30 rd mags to 30. Load em to 15.

[Lambo2936 297]

Jeez, i must have opened a can of worms; i can't say im surprised as i did realize our laws were ridiculously 'gray' when it comes to quite literally everything, but not this gray.
Like i said, they'd be locked in ammo boxes, and i CAN simply refuse to open said locked boxes; no reason why an officer would need to see what was in there if i just told him it was ammo.
I don't think anyone would actually go to jail over it, though. Might be a hell of a legal PITA, though. I may just call my local PD and ask them, and try and get it in writing.

[SgtToadette 59]

This. All day.

 

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Seriously. People act like loaded mags give off a special scent that LEOs can smell from miles away. If you're having your range bag searched, you dun messed up.

 

It's legal. If people want to be cautious that's fine but I'll still make fun of you at the range for it.

[Tunaman 548]

If Nappen says don't do it then I would listen to his advice.  You will be crying when you have to plunk down that 5000 dollar retainer.

All the good ranges have mag loaders anyway now...so time is not so much of an issue.

[JTS1469 0]

Id work on doing some practice drills loading mags or invest in a speed loader.

[Golf battery 1,223]

Use common sense. That about sums it up. Keep mags loaded. Its NOT illegal. Just USE common sense. And your question will answer itself. !!!

[High Exposure 5,664]

[JackDaWack 2,895]

Been through this a million times.

 

California already lost a case dealing with this. If NJ wants loaded mags to be considered part of the gun they need to express that in law, otherwise a reasonable person expects if the mag isn't in the gun, the guns not loaded. Remember, the law is still based on how a reasonable person would understand it.