Why We're Doomed

[Kevin125 4,772]

Would you fight if and when they knock on your door for your weapons?

 

Would I fire on the LEO that was assigned the task to retrieve weapons in my house?

 

No.

 

And by that time, there would be no weapons in my house.  They would be "elsewhere" until such time that they're needed.

 

The "fight" you speak of is a dead end.  Consider other alternatives. 

[T Bill 649]

One of the ways elections in the country are crazy. If you have an election and apathy is so great that nobody cares, you could vote for yourself and get elected.

 

The answer here is simple as stated before, not voting is the same as voting for the other guy. Writing in a vote counts the same.  Either vote for one or the other hope your person wins or suffer the consequences.

 

I will not waste my vote, period.  Nobody's forcing you to do a thing, Just don't scream too loud when your morals and values go down in the history books.

[SmittyMHS 603]

Kasich just dropped out.

 

All I can say is like it or not, not checking the box for the Republican choice for president is a vote for Hillary.

This^^^

Don't be a dumb ass. This is NOT the time to show how conservative you are. Get over yourself.

Its as easy to understand as A.B.C.-Anyone But Clinton 

[Rob0115 1,105]

I'm voting to make America great again.  I have my hat already.

[MLArmory 33]

1. You need new friends.

 

2. Just because people react with shock and horror when you disagree with them and voice your opinion doesn't mean you've actually done anything shocking or horrific. You've committed no crime. They aren't being forced to listen.

 

I'm not aware of people being arrested in mass for speaking their mind or voicing their opinions. People may call you names (bigot, racists,ammo sexual, etc) but that generally means they don't have an intelligent response to what you just said.

 

Keep up the good work kid but cut down a little on the hyperbole.

 

Thank you sir. Here are a few examples of people being arrested for speaking their minds:

 

http://clashdaily.com/2016/02/speaking-against-islam-is-a-no-no-activists-just-arrested-for-anti-islam-speech/

 

https://www.jihadwatch.org/2016/02/uk-cops-arrest-man-for-offensive-comment-about-muslim-migrants

 

http://www.independentsentinel.com/man-arrested-for-offensive-facebooking-against-muslims/

[Ricky_Bobby 130]

Let me tell you what - I don't know if its been mentioned before and I am not the biggest Trump fan because I don't believe he gives a shit about limited government power -

 

But do any of you think for one second the sheep that make up approximately 47% or more of the voting base and the Democratic party in general are having this discussion even in whispers on their side?  Once they announce Hillary, or Bernie, 110% of the Democrats will vote hands down the line, not even flinching and probably excited to pull the lever - hell, Colonel Sanders could be their nominee and if he had a D next to his name on the ballot they will vote party line, every time.

 

This is why the Republican Party has not won actual elections since 1988 - too disenfranchised and butthurt from the primary process to unite in order to defeat the agenda - Dole, McCain, Romney, all "blah" candidates - at least I'll give it to the Republicans, this time around at least they have someone interesting.

 

And for what its worth I'm a Ron/Rand Paul leaning libertarian for the past 7-8 years now and I don't think Trump is a conservative - but if 5% of the normal "R voters" are going to think they are making a difference sticking with this Never Trump crap till the end and pulling a Ross Perot, may as well put the crown on Hillary or Bernie right now - because you'd never see that from their party under ANY circumstance.

 

All the Bernie voters will fall in line IMMEDIATELY if Hillary gets nomination, and vise versa.  Look how fierce her and Obama got in 2008 and the D's just LINED UP behind their party the second she dropped out, and McCain got spanked. 

 

To be honest at this point I'm more worried about losing Congress because lets be honest besides them actually holding the line on not taking up a vote on Garland (which remains to be seen if they can hold out another 7.5 months) - the Republicans haven't done a damn thing to fight back the progressive agenda and most of the time they are going along with everything the D's want to do - as they've bitched about a million times, obviously we as voters shouldn't expect the Republicans to actually be able to ACCOMPLISH anything unless they have both houses of Congress (and filibuster and veto proof majority in the Senate) a Constitutional leaning Supreme Court, and the actual Presidency as well.

[Kevin125 4,772]

The risk of losing congress comes with the Dem turnout in the presidential election.  If they don't turnout, as they typically don't during non-pres elections, then they of course will lose the white house and don't get congress.  I think it's an "All or Nothing" thing for them.

 

In a bit of irony, they were expecting to be done with the primary before the R's.  But now they are stuck for at least another month as Sanders keeps rolling along.  The longer it goes on, the more the Bernie subjects will feel disenfranchised by the micro-aggression on their space by a bullying Clinton.  They should just go to a therapy session on election day.  No point in them voting.

 

On turnout....

 

Clinton won't get the Black turnout that Obama got.

 

Clinton will not get the youth turnout that Obama got to some extent and Sanders would get.

 

But she gets the woman vote. To some extent.  Rational women do not like her. Talking about Dems.

 

But it's back to the same issue.  Conservatives or whichever part of whichever group it is that wants to take their ball and go cry in Mom's apron needs to just vote against Clinton. 

[NJGF 375]

I have heard some evidence that many of the Sanders voters will possibly vote for Trump. Both groups don't like the establishment.

 

The wild card is still the FBI investigation.

[Kevin125 4,772]

I have heard some evidence that many of the Sanders voters will possibly vote for Trump. Both groups don't like the establishment.

 

The wild card is still the FBI investigation.

 

A poll reported last night on Fox... I'm not sure which poll... said that 40% of Sanders voters say they won't vote for Clinton.  Of those, some said they would vote Green Party, others said they would write in, other stay home and some would vote for Trump.

 

Only can only hope....

[Old Glock guy 1,127]

This^^^

Don't be a dumb ass. This is NOT the time to show how conservative you are. Get over yourself.

Its as easy to understand as A.B.C.-Anyone But Clinton

 

Totally agree with you SmittyHMS. This is no time for ideological purity. The very fate of our nation is at stake, as I have noted elsewhere.

 

Estimates are that there are around 100,000,000 gun owners in the U.S. Granted that many of them are Fudds or otherwise apathetic, if half of them would come out to vote against Hillary, she would we resoundingly crushed.

[gleninjersey 2,139]

Thank you sir. Here are a few examples of people being arrested for speaking their minds:

 

http://clashdaily.com/2016/02/speaking-against-islam-is-a-no-no-activists-just-arrested-for-anti-islam-speech/

 

https://www.jihadwatch.org/2016/02/uk-cops-arrest-man-for-offensive-comment-about-muslim-migrants

 

http://www.independentsentinel.com/man-arrested-for-offensive-facebooking-against-muslims/

Not one of the above examples is from the United States? Not very good examples of why "we are doomed".

 

I'm not denying that things aren't moving in the wrong direction but currently here in this coumtry we can still disagree with our government and others. We are free to voice our dissenting opinions and ideas peacefully. I don't know of any examples of regular citizens here in the United States of people being arrested for voicing their opinions or because their opinions or ideas hurt somebody's feelings.

 

Not saying things are all rosey and sunshine. That's why we remain vigilant. To make sure we don't slide further in the wrong direction.

[gleninjersey 2,139]

Thank you sir. Here are a few examples of people being arrested for speaking their minds:

 

http://clashdaily.com/2016/02/speaking-against-islam-is-a-no-no-activists-just-arrested-for-anti-islam-speech/

 

https://www.jihadwatch.org/2016/02/uk-cops-arrest-man-for-offensive-comment-about-muslim-migrants

 

http://www.independentsentinel.com/man-arrested-for-offensive-facebooking-against-muslims/

Not one of the above examples is from the United States? Not very good examples of why "we are doomed".

 

I'm not denying that things aren't moving in the wrong direction but currently here in this coumtry we can still disagree with our government and others. We are free to voice our dissenting opinions and ideas peacefully. I don't know of any examples of regular citizens here in the United States of people being arrested for voicing their opinions or because their opinions or ideas hurt somebody's feelings.

 

Not saying things are all rosie and sunshine. That's why we remain vigilant. To make sure we don't slide further in the wrong direction.

[Newtonian 453]

Not one of the above examples is from the United States? Not very good examples of why "we are doomed".

 

I'm not denying that things aren't moving in the wrong direction but currently here in this coumtry we can still disagree with our government and others. We are free to voice our dissenting opinions and ideas peacefully. I don't know of any examples of regular citizens here in the United States of people being arrested for voicing their opinions or because their opinions or ideas hurt somebody's feelings.

 

Not saying things are all rosie and sunshine. That's why we remain vigilant. To make sure we don't slide further in the wrong direction.

Glenn, unfortunately you're wrong. Here's a very recent example closer to home: http://bit.ly/23qqMiZ

 

Summary: The attorney general of the U.S. Virgin Islands seeking to round up climate change deniers, including think tanks and academics. Also signing on to the legal action are California Attorney General Kamala Harris, New York Attorney General Eric Schneiderman, Attorney General Maura Healey of Massachusetts, and 14 other state attorneys general. All sick in the head fucking democrats. 

 

Al "Dr. Ozone" Gore had this to say on the legal action: "We cannot continue to allow the fossil fuel industry or any industry to treat our atmosphere like an open sewer or mislead the public about the impact they have on the health of our people and the health of our planet," Gore said.

"Those who are using unfair and illegal means to try to prevent the change are likely now, finally, at long last, to be held to account," he said.

As I posted earlier companies have been vigorously punishing non-politically correct speech for several years. The examples are too numerous. They also have the effect of law in that, like getting a felony conviction, a person can lose everything they've worked for during a lifetime, in this case merely for saying or believing in the "wrong" thing.

All this is happening before our very eyes.

[NJGF 375]

Free speech is truly being attacked just because people disagree with what is being said and yes people are being arrested for it:

 

Hate speech prosecution in Montana

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/volokh-conspiracy/wp/2015/06/04/hate-speech-prosecution-in-montana/

 

'As the Montana criminal defamation statute is worded, this means that hatred-inducing opinions are criminally punishable, too. Yes, this is that extraordinarily rare thing: an American prosecution for “hate speech” (State v. Lenio). The First Amendment doesn’t allow that.'

[gleninjersey 2,139]

Free speech is truly being attacked just because people disagree with what is being said and yes people are being arrested for it:

 

Hate speech prosecution in Montana

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/volokh-conspiracy/wp/2015/06/04/hate-speech-prosecution-in-montana/

 

'As the Montana criminal defamation statute is worded, this means that hatred-inducing opinions are criminally punishable, too. Yes, this is that extraordinarily rare thing: an American prosecution for “hate speech” (State v. Lenio). The First Amendment doesn’t allow that.'

The example your providing is someone who went on twitter saying they want to shoot up a school and also kill jews. That's not having a differnt opinion or expressing your views. That crosses the line. Obviosly this person has problems that need to be addressed.

 

The matter of criminalizing defamatory speech IS troubling. This article is almost a year old now. I'll try to see tomorrow where the case has gone. Most likely the defamatory "crime" will be thrown out and the law eventually invalidated.

 

Again, not avery good example as this person is threatening violence (several times). Better than the last examples though. But don't see anyone getting arrested for exercising free speech or hurting someone's feeling.

[NJGF 375]

I agree that this is very troubling and also hope that this charge was thrown out. Sometimes bad actors end up being very important cases. We seem to be on a very slippery slope with the 1st amendment very similar to the 2nd amendment and other rights we are losing (like the 4th amendment). Laws are being passed and overzealous prosecutors will use them. Although this guy was a bad guy the prosecutor did additionally charge him for his defamatory speech. When "hate speech" is criminalized who gets to decide what is hateful?

[JayWilling 33]

Sorry, can't help myself, one more rant....

 

The GOP is going to stay home? Why, because the GOP pols have been such standard bearers for our values and so successful at passing great legislation and defending the Constitution, because up until this dark day they have produced such great candidates for President?

 

GOP has been useless, ESPECIALLY since they gained control of both congressional houses. To the stoic "GOPPERS", you friggin' blew it!!!  Sit down, shut up, and do what you have to do to keep the Hildebeast's hands off of our government and Constitution. If you don't you will get more of same, and I know I certainly don't want that.

 

Evangelicals are pissed?  I can't remember when they HAVEN'T been pissed! Mainstream is shocked? Maybe if the GOP pretty boys had come out and had something to say things might be different but they're NOT.

 

I don't mean to offend, but I AM offended when I hear conservatives I know bitching about Trump and they'll have to stay home and knit on election day. Were the last several R presidents super conservative? Hell no. Reagan is a saint, but he wasn't elected as a super conservative. Trump said something un-PC about women? Oh, like none of us ever have? Trump spreads hate? That's why democrats go to his events and start fights in the streets. Trump made a dick joke?  If you are a guy and never made a dick joke, turn in your weapons. I am NOT a fan of Trump, but HE is the only option for POTUS, the only opposition to the organized crime and depravity of the progressives in this country. THAT is the hand we are dealt.

 

Conservatives, we are bigger than that. Get over it....the next republican president is not going to eliminate abortion, shrink the federal govt, and eliminate the debt. Get OVER it.

 

It's time to make lemonade, folks. Time to push the button that sends a big F-You to Hillary and her band of slimy professionals. Assuming the lineup is as predicted, you are not a patriot if you don't take the information, the tools, and the choices at hand and cast your vote BASED ON WHAT WE KNOW NOW to allow the LEAST amount of harm come to your country. Any other action is BS.
 

[njpilot 671]

This^^^

Don't be a dumb ass. This is NOT the time to show how conservative you are. Get over yourself.

Its as easy to understand as A.B.C.-Anyone But Clinton

Really? I'm not a big Chump fan, but that being said, as of now, I will almost definitely vote for him.

 

But regarding your statements, I guess you don't believe in having and standing by principals, just chuck them out the window, huh?

 

What are we without principals? Democrats. Liberal progressives. That's what we become when we have no principals or we can't be bothered to stand by our principals.

 

Oh, with his picks for AG and Homeland Security, might as well bring back Holder and Napolitano for as anti-gun as those to guys are.

[45Frank 32]

Maybe the reason many gun rights are all but gone in NJ is folks just keep compromising voting for the lesser of two evils. Maybe take one or two elections and stand steady on an issue and vote straight conservative.

Just and example of Trumps flip flops yet again. He said during the debates he thought the min wage should be lowered or was to high now he's talking he would  raise it. I promise you by election day he will be talking gun control. He is surrounding his self with possible AG Liberal anti-gun Christie, HLS Lets reg every single gun Giuliani, then HHS Carson every semi auto must be banned in every American city. Folks this conversation may be mute by election day because you may not see a difference between him and Hillary.
I have compromised my values by voting lesser of two evils long enough now. No More, sorry,

 

I think I seen one answer but I will ask again will you just turn in your guns if or when the come for them or will ya fight?

 

NJ with their permit process knows where all the legal gun are.

[Michael2013 56]

...

I have compromised my values by voting lesser of two evils long enough now. No More, sorry,

 

...

NJ with their permit process knows where all the legal gun are.

1. Two words for you: Supreme Court.

2. Yes, they can do it here, but confiscation doesn't make sense if it is limited to NJ and a few other states.  What can they do about Vermont, for example?

[SmittyMHS 603]

Really? I'm not a big Chump fan, but that being said, as of now, I will almost definitely vote for him.

 

But regarding your statements, I guess you don't believe in having and standing by principals, just chuck them out the window, huh?

 

What are we without principals? Democrats. Liberal progressives. That's what we become when we have no principals or we can't be bothered to stand by our principals.

 

Oh, with his picks for AG and Homeland Security, might as well bring back Holder and Napolitano for as ant-gun as those to guys are.

Oh I have principals. I (try) to never lie. (everyone lies to some extent) cheat, steal. Treat people how I want to be treated.   I also have common sense. 

[45Frank 32]

1. Two words for you: Supreme Court.

 

Which I believe will be lost if Hillary or Trump win, he will compromise.

 

2. Yes, they can do it here, but confiscation doesn't make sense if it is limited to NJ and a few other states.  What can they do about Vermont, for example?

 

They would start someplace and like the law always (Government) always does start where they know things are.

 

A few years back had the IRS take thousand from me because of my EX-WIFE, at the time we were divorced 12 years. After a year had a hearing and I was told well we know where you were Still never got my money back because they refuse to discuss her liabilities. Catch 22 when dealing with the government and they will do anything they want.

[NJGF 375]

I think I seen one answer but I will ask again will you just turn in your guns if or when the come for them or will ya fight?

Just move to PA. it is not worth fighting for NJ.

[Old Glock guy 1,127]

Really? I'm not a big Chump fan, but that being said, as of now, I will almost definitely vote for him.

 

But regarding your statements, I guess you don't believe in having and standing by principals, just chuck them out the window, huh?

 

What are we without principals? Democrats. Liberal progressives. That's what we become when we have no principals or we can't be bothered to stand by our principals.

 

Oh, with his picks for AG and Homeland Security, might as well bring back Holder and Napolitano for as ant-gun as those to guys are.

 

Not sure of your point.  Elections are generally binary choices.  Sometimes it's a matter of who you like better, but often it comes down to who you 

dislike the least.  

 

You say in your first sentence that you don't like Trump (Chump?), but you say you will vote for him.  I think that's wise.

Considering that the very future of our nation is at stake, I don't believe this is a time to stand on ideological purity.

[Michael2013 56]

A few years back had the IRS take thousand from me because of my EX-WIFE, at the time we were divorced 12 years. After a year had a hearing and I was told we'll we know where you were Still never got my money back because they refuse to discuss her liabilities. Catch 22 when dealing with the government and they will do anything they want.

Sorry for your IRS troubles.

Back to my two points.

1. Supreme Court.  With Hillary, we loose for sure.  With Trump, I believe we'll win.  There could be a compromise like this: "I'll appoint a moderate after you confirm two conservatives".  I'm OK with that.

2. This sort of law can't be enforced state by state, it'll make things worse for the "confiscators".  Let's imagine they start confiscation from NJ because they know where the legal owners are.  There is about 1M gun owners, and for sure there will be at least a few dozens shootouts with some gun owners like you and some LEOs killed.  It will be impossible to hide it from the public, and it will lead do discussion "how many lives we're willing to sacrifice to get rid of legal guns".  Not helpful for further implementation.

[45Frank 32]

Sorry for your IRS troubles.

Back to my two points.

1. Supreme Court.  With Hillary, we loose for sure.  With Trump, I believe we'll win.  There could be a compromise like this: "I'll appoint a moderate after you confirm two conservatives".  I'm OK with that.

2. This sort of law can't be enforced state by state, it'll make things worse for the "confiscators".  Let's imagine they start confiscation from NJ because they know where the legal owners are.  There is about 1M gun owners, and for sure there will be at least a few dozens shootouts with some gun owners like you and some LEOs killed.  It will be impossible to hide it from the public, and it will lead do discussion "how many lives we're willing to sacrifice to get rid of legal guns".  Not helpful for further implementation.

Or they will use the shootings to say "see these gun nuts shouldn't have a gun".

I honestly believe that most would just turn them in. I said at this time I am at peace with myself,

BUT 10 years ago when my kids were younger and lived at home my views would have been different.

[Newtonian 453]

This sort of law can't be enforced state by state, it'll make things worse for the "confiscators".  Let's imagine they start confiscation from NJ because they know where the legal owners are.  There is about 1M gun owners, and for sure there will be at least a few dozens shootouts with some gun owners like you and some LEOs killed.  It will be impossible to hide it from the public, and it will lead do discussion "how many lives we're willing to sacrifice to get rid of legal guns".  Not helpful for further implementation.

It's too early for this "sort of [federal] law" to work anywhere but in a handful of states. You may indeed see shootouts in states with ingrained gun cultures. Most New Jersey gun owners would prefer turning 'em in to engaging in a shootout with the cops, which is essentially suicide. I'd rather divorce my wife and buy a shack in the Pokies than commit suicide. 

[Michael2013 56]

It's too early for this "sort of [federal] law" to work anywhere but in a handful of states. You may indeed see shootouts in states with ingrained gun cultures. Most New Jersey gun owners would prefer turning 'em in to engaging in a shootout with the cops, which is essentially suicide. I'd rather divorce my wife and buy a shack in the Pokies than commit suicide. 

Sure, that's why my wild guess is a few dozens shootouts, which is less then 1/100 of 1% of the NJ gun owners.  Majority, a vast majority are not going to commit suicide by cop.

The point is, that confiscation in any state, even in NJ, is not politically possible until the population in all (almost all) states is brainwashed enough.

[mipafox 438]

It's too early for this "sort of [federal] law" to work anywhere but in a handful of states. You may indeed see shootouts in states with ingrained gun cultures. Most New Jersey gun owners would prefer turning 'em in to engaging in a shootout with the cops, which is essentially suicide. I'd rather divorce my wife and buy a shack in the Pokies than commit suicide.

There have already been shootouts when cops came to confiscate guns. We had three Pittsburgh police die in one incident. I know we don't have banned guns or mass confiscations in PA, but people still have situations where they know the cops are coming for them. And some people around the US are willing when they see it coming.

[45Frank 32]

I lived in NJ till about 12 years ago. I collected signatures back when the trader Whitman was to repeal the Florio gun ban back when John Lotts study came out. I was their when they presented the signatures for the auto ins. debacle. I was pretty pro active back then and enjoyed standing for what I wanted.

I was their in Philadelphia when Vice President Heston spoke. I was in Orlando for his last speech that he was to week to give yet raised the old flintlock one last time. I watched as he raised the flintlock as a rod. Folks keep compromising and what's next? What will be compromised next the 1st amendment maybe?
I found myself while in NJ always compromising on everything, well this is better than nothing or better than that. Well nothing ever changed, nothing.
So no I will not compromise any longer.
Maybe just maybe being a yank living in a small unincorporated town in redneck central has strengthened my conviction some over 12 years. I am now selling my home here and am building nothing more then a 12x16 cabin with no electric or running water on the side of a mountain, out the front 25' down about 1200', in the rear 50' up about 600'. I will have any gun I feel is necessary on my terms not the governments. 
In another post I told a story how I unfriended someone I have known since I was a kid, the buffoon comes here to shoot on property then whines how bad NJ is yet he will not join any pro 2nd amendment group. He even asked for my old American Rifleman magazines. Really. He was asked to leave and I told him to lose my number and never call again. I've done this with a few friends the last year or so. I was just so tired of my NJ friends just whining endlessly yet never did a darned thing to help the situation.

One question what do you think our founding fathers would do when folks say yeah I would just turn them in?