Party of 6 - action to restore CCW in NJ

[Kevin125 4,772]

Fair enough on the Clinton thing.  Your comparison was different than I had interpreted. I still think its not a great one. 

 

 

My point here is that Almeida is trying to raise funds by disparaging the highest profile people he can in the 2A community based on rumor.  People, including leading advocates, are allowed to disagree on methods and tactics.  They are allowed not to participate in efforts that they don't believe in.  It doesn't mean that they are conspiring against the cause.    

 

I find this behavior by those leveling these accusations despicable, and I don't know why anyone is tolerating it and operating on the assumption its true 

 

Purely on the political end, I think it's fair.  Though orders of magnitude of difference in immediate seriousness given what actually happened in Benghazi.

 

I didn't get the impression that this was a fund raiser when I read it.  Saw it more as him being pissed off and wanting to hold someone to account.

 

I'm more curious about whether or not it's true that the attorney handling his case didn't contact him after a ruling was made and whether or not it's true that the other attorney is ignoring him. And if so why.  Is he off the deep end?  Or did he get the shaft? Or did none of that actually happen?  Only reason I care is #1) The issue    #2) The prominence of the people involved

 

If these accounts of what happened are false, that is in fact despicable. I'd like to understand the underlying facts.  I don't see how anyone with a brain could claim that an attorney went awol for a year and if that were not true. It's super easy for that attorney to debunk that.  They document everything.

 

Not that it matters to anyone what I think, but I'll give all parties the benefit of a doubt.

[John Willett 70]

Mr. Almeida,

 

Have you actually delivered on anything other than disparaging remarks about others?  

 

Are you capable of engaging without insults?  

 

Have you ever committed to any effort that wasn't linked to your bank account?

 

You're right, against my better judgement I've tried to work with you.  The problem is the moment you disagree with someone, they are suddenly lapdogs, or conspirators against you.  

 

By the way, I am glad you finally worked up the courage to direct the insults you shared earlier on Facebook toward me.  I'd appreciate it if you could at least spell my name right when you attack me. 

 

Many of us are working to grow the community, and you appear to only be interested in breaking it up. 

 

Good day

 

(Edit) P.S.  What did Scott say when you asked him about this while you were on Gun for Hire together? 

[Kevin125 4,772]

Mr. Almeida.  I'm simply having a discussion and hoping to learn more about all of what is being discussed here.  The issue affects everyone who owns or wants to legally own firearms, so I tend to take it seriously.  So as I wrote above I'll give everyone the benefit of a doubt.

 

But you'd do well not to disparage a United States Marine on these forums. Or anywhere else for that matter.  It's out of line.

[Purple Patrick 638]

Look I'm young dumb and naive and this case was only brought to my attention because of this forum. I wouldn't go on said forum and start bashing members and the armed services when we are the people fighting for you.

 

-just a spineless dumb 23year old

 

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[Kevin125 4,772]

-just a spineless dumb 23year old

 

 

I'd saying you are proving otherwise.

[Zeke 5,504]

I'd saying you are proving otherwise.

I concur, this is another rose that will not blossom.

 

 

"Why can't we all jus get along"

[Purple Patrick 638]

I think of myself more as a Gerbera Daisy

 

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[Zeke 5,504]

Ok, too far.

[Purple Patrick 638]

Dude my family owns a florist. Flowers is lifes.... almost as much as gunz and boolits

 

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[Ramup422 18]

Mr. Willet, please don't take this as me entertaining your rhetoric. But I was asked to post this as a reply to your statement on Mr. Michael Tumminelli, By Michael himself because he is not able to log on here:

 

Mr. Willett, your memory is a bit off. I declined only after I informed you that I had drop my case due lack of representation. That lack of representation was not so at first, in fact I had two one hour conversations with the law firm about my case in where they were quite excited about my case because I was a govt employee.

 

Within one month of those discussions, I emailed over 15 times and left around 10 voice messages without a response. This was less than four weeks previous to the conference that you hold.

 

I did not inform the law firm that I was dropping my case because communication had died, very quickly. I have the emails to show the amount of data that I had sent to the law firm. I have only two responses, both were asking for more information and then nothing after.

 

Again, you were not part of those conversations or emails, unless again you know more than I do? Even worse, you have contacted Party of 6 members to discuss our plan and seek out answers.

 

You have known our questioning of 2A leadership from the beginning. You were only concerned that we did not attack your conference, which we actually applauded. You should inform the forum of your discussions with fellow members of the Party of 6 and the fact you were very concerned about us addressing the lack of leadership and back room dealings. Thank you. Michael T.

[Zeke 5,504]

Dude my family owns a florist. Flowers is lifes.... almost as much as gunz and boolits

 

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Well bro, watch why we are where we are.

[68chris 20]

Albert,

How do you donate?

Is po6 setup for checks?

[John Willett 70]

Hi again

 

Michael did not tell me anything about lack of representation.  In fact, I have the email here.  He stated that he was rescinding his case, removing himself from NJ's fight and moving.  I wished him well and said that he needed to do what was best for his family.  He did mention support vaguely.  I assumed financial support.  Again, nothing about problems with lawyers.

 

I claimed no knowledge about communication between him and others, only relayed what he had told me and suggested that may be a reason.  Hence, the question mark at the end of that sentence. 

 

By the way, I don't think I have yet to seek out any member of your party, certainly not in that capacity.  Any conversation was initiated by them with me either through posts on my Facebook pages or that hit my feed.  As you you know, I don't pester people who aren't responding.  

 

Other than yourself, Mark Cheeseman and David Schulze were the only two members I have had conversations with recently as far as I know.   In fact my first conversation with David was rather telling.  When I deleted his post off the SAFE Conference Facebook page, I messaged him to notify him that we don't condone bashing other 2A groups.  He tried to argue that you guys weren't, but we all know how that has turned out, right? 

 

As I have always stated, building the community of advocates is my goal and the goal of the conference.  If you really think that is valuable, you would find a way to do that with your group. Unfortunately, I am not sure you have the temperament to do so. 

 

Anyway, I hope you were able to enjoy watching some of the NRA meeting today, David Clarke was great as usual.  

 

I didn't particularly find your tagging me on a Krispy Kreme post nearly as funny as I am sure you did, alas you are now blocked on that platform.  Anyone who has met me knows I am a big guy, haha funny funny.  When you can engage on something greater than a grade-school level, let me know and I will reconsider. 

 

[Zeke 5,504]

Albert,

How do you donate?

Is po6 setup for checks?

I'll echo this

[Zeke 5,504]

It's like everybody needs a kumbaiya moment or sumtin.

[mipafox 438]

This is a mess. Dem's don't behave like this. Can we get NJgunforums branded chill pills?

[n4p226r 105]

Seems like this is exactly what the antis want. Is arguing between ourselves. I'll be honest and say I'm turned off by the rhetoric in the posts bashing Scott. Especially with the start of "I don't have proof but I'll post it anyway" to "I have three people that can confirm this is the case". How many people were in the room trying to plot against Albert? Aren't back room deals usually done in the back room?

[Zeke 5,504]

Pay attention flower child

[Manchee 2]

Albert,

How do you donate?

Is po6 setup for checks?

Thank you for your inquiry on donating. http://gogetfunding.com/po6fightingfor2arightsinnj/

[Manchee 2]

It's complete BS. 

 

The allegations don't even make sense.  A challenge to NJ's carry law wouldn't have hurt Christie.  Recall Sweeney certainly wouldn't hurt Christie.  There were no spaces for private meetings at SAFE Conference. 

Complete BS? John you and i have had this conversation before. I find it interesting that no other 2A group or media outlet is calling the PO6 lairs. Whats more interesting is the fact that in a short period of time we the PO6 have been welcomed and supported by a large number of people in NJ. Prior to the Party of six formation, the founding members decided to form a grassroots effort for a mass carry project. Operation carry. We had 600 law abiding firearm owners ready to apply and be denied and join us in a lawsuit against the state based on failure to apply justifiable need and prove that NJ 96% approval rate is false. Yet when we presented this project with hat in hand to Nappen and Bach they wanted nothing to do with it. Furthermore we were advised to not proceed. Why? I personally was never naive enough to buy into the constant gloom and doom attitude of most groups that ask for donations. I have spent countless hours informing multiple groups and law abiding firearm owners on up coming anti gun legislation and pro gun legislation,also promoting and sharing firearm safety organizations. Should i wait for a newsletter that comes out every three months to inform me of something that has come and gone?This history of stale leadership is at least two decades old here in NJ. I suggest we agree to disagree John. Also i wrote our state NRA representatives three times by e mail. This was two months ago. NO reply. As a founding member of The Party of six i can speak for all of us. We seek not to divide the 2A community but to motivate those interested in bringing down  N.J.A.C. 13:54-2.4 piece by piece. 

[n4p226r 105]

I don't care either way but for a group that's "seek(ing) not to devide the 2A community but to motivate" you guys sure seem to be hung ho on doing just the opposite. Your entire motivation seems to be to call some big conspiracy theory between the anjrpc, Scott Bach, Nappen and you guys.

 

I'm actually going to say I believe it's highly likely back room deals were made. Id like to think and actually do think that's if it was the case it was because Scott and Nappen. I just happen to think that if true they did it because they thought we could honestly gain more because of it. I just hope any of these lawsuits stick

[John Willett 70]

Complete BS? John you and i have had this conversation before. I find it interesting that no other 2A group or media outlet is calling the PO6 lairs. Whats more interesting is the fact that in a short period of time we the PO6 have been welcomed and supported by a large number of people in NJ. Prior to the Party of six formation, the founding members decided to form a grassroots effort for a mass carry project. Operation carry. We had 600 law abiding firearm owners ready to apply and be denied and join us in a lawsuit against the state based on failure to apply justifiable need and prove that NJ 96% approval rate is false. Yet when we presented this project with hat in hand to Nappen and Bach they wanted nothing to do with it. Furthermore we were advised to not proceed. Why? I personally was never naive enough to buy into the constant gloom and doom attitude of most groups that ask for donations. I have spent countless hours informing multiple groups and law abiding firearm owners on up coming anti gun legislation and pro gun legislation,also promoting and sharing firearm safety organizations. Should i wait for a newsletter that comes out every three months to inform me of something that has come and gone?This history of stale leadership is at least two decades old here in NJ. I suggest we agree to disagree John. Also i wrote our state NRA representatives three times by e mail. This was two months ago. NO reply. As a founding member of The Party of six i can speak for all of us. We seek not to divide the 2A community but to motivate those interested in bringing down  N.J.A.C. 13:54-2.4 piece by piece. 

 

So if members of the party of six can speak for each other, do you agree with Almeida that I am a fraud?  

 

Do you think the Marine Corps standards were too low when I served?

(By the way, this is from a person who to my knowledge, never served.  I am really interested how you guys like your primary spokesperson denigrating the military service of anyone, much less another 2A advocate.)  

 

Do you think I am a lapdog or a conspirator member of the "establishment"?  

 

What Almeida, and by extension the rest of the Party of six, has accused Scott and Evan of is even more serious.  Unethical behavior and scheming that directly contradicts the interest of their clients or employer, not to mention the violation of NJ Gun Owner's trust.  Where is the evidence? Admittedly there is none, save for the unsubstantiated hearsay from someone with an interest in taking down those who won't give them money.  When Almeida is getting what he wants, he's quiet.  When he isn't, there is a conspiracy afoot. 

 

By the way, who are you?

[DeerSlayer 241]

Dosen't seem like he's anti military to me. I think he's just anti John Willett lol...

 

[John Willett 70]

I said he denigrated (that means insulted) the service of a veteran, not that he had a problem with military in general.

[DeerSlayer 241]

I said he denigrated (that means insulted) the service of a veteran, not that he had a problem with military in general.

Yes I'm aware of the definition, I have a piece of sheepskin hanging on my wall from a pretty decent university. Others suggested he was against the military. His father was a Marine, and I believe his brother served as well. Pretty sure he's pro military, was all I was saying. Did he insult you? Yep definitely, I don't believe he was taking a dig at everyone that served, just you specifically. Which probably isn't the nicest thing to do, but sometimes people say things they don't completely think through in the heat of a discussion. It happens...

[John Willett 70]

Deerslayer, the point is this.  If he is willing to repeatedly attack a veterans service (this isn't a spur of the moment thing, he used the same line of attack several months ago) than its obvious that he doesn't actually value military service.  Rather, I suspect, he wants to cloak himself in the service of others in pursuit of his goal.  

 

By the way, I don't have a personal beef with anyone on this issue (despite some attempts to make it personal).  I do however object to people driving wedges into the cracks of our community for the purpose of raising cash, and will continue to call out behavior that I find despicable. 

[DeerSlayer 241]

Deerslayer, the point is this. If he is willing to repeatedly attack a veterans service (this isn't a spur of the moment thing, he used the same line of attack several months ago) than its obvious that he doesn't actually value military service. Rather, I suspect, he wants to cloak himself in the service of others in pursuit of his goal.

 

By the way, I don't have a personal beef with anyone on this issue (despite some attempts to make it personal). I do however object to people driving wedges into the cracks of our community for the purpose of raising cash, and will continue to call out behavior that I find despicable.

I could honestly care less about how Albert talks to people. I just want his case to go federal. My money is on Albert's case, over Bach's billboard, and radio commercials to restore carry rights in NJ. No one in the state legislature is listening to a billboard message obviously. No matter how nicely he asks them to respect the 2A. He couldn't even get us bathroom brakes from them, he basically begged them for that. They probably laugh at those signs as they drive by... They won't be laughing when the SCOTUS rules Justifiable need as unconstitutional. That's really all I give a S#*T about, not who's feelings he hurts to get the job done.

[John Willett 70]

So then tell me, how does Albert's case succeed where Drake failed?  It won't.  The third circuit said that 2A wasn't implicated by NJ's "regulation".  SCOTUS passed on it.  The best case scenario is Albert gets his permit under the current standard.  In fact, I suspect there is a chance that he may benefit from the adjustment to the regulations that Bach apparently was involved in orchestrating.   I hope he does, but how is that for irony?  

 

Regardless, Nappen's current case is probably better because it likely falls within the holding of Heller and not simply the dicta.  This would provide a new test of how far the third circuit is willing to go to ignore Heller and McDonald.  

 

I don't care about ego's or feelings.  I cite his behavior to provide insight into how he operates. But, to my detriment, I am often compelled to respond to unsubstantiated BS and flawed arguments. 

[Rob0115 1,105]

Since I dwell in FL a considerable amount I haven't followed this but it's peaked my interest. Is the PO6 trying to prove their justifiable need on their applications or prove justifiable need is silly? Mid the former how does that help broadly? I can see how it helps those six fellows but not everyone else, and in fact just respects the unjust justifiable need. If they are fighting that justifiable need is indeed just another word for no and should be struck down then I can see the mass benefit. However, what do you suggest it gets replaced with? Constitutional carry? While ideal I'd have to say impossible and I'm far from spineless. Maybe make NJ a shall issue state with no clause for justification just proficiency?

 

The CC EO didn't really change anything with regards to CCW. In fact the words that were substituted are tantamount to justifiable need--only they sounded less foreboding. Imminent danger was it? Truth be told I always feel like I'm in imminent danger walking the streets and going to the movies or walking around shopping malls or road ragers all around. I could go on but would any of that work? Nah.

 

So really the only question I'd like to understand is my first one. What's the purpose of the PO6?

[DeerSlayer 241]

So then tell me, how does Albert's case succeed where Drake failed? It won't. The third circuit said that 2A wasn't implicated by NJ's "regulation". SCOTUS passed on it. The best case scenario is Albert gets his permit under the current standard. In fact, I suspect there is a chance that he may benefit from the adjustment to the regulations that Bach apparently was involved in orchestrating. I hope he does, but how is that for irony?

 

Regardless, Nappen's current case is probably better because it likely falls within the holding of Heller and not simply the dicta. This would provide a new test of how far the third circuit is willing to go to ignore Heller and McDonald.

 

I don't care about ego's or feelings. I cite his behavior to provide insight into how he operates. But, to my detriment, I am often compelled to respond to unsubstantiated BS and flawed arguments.

Any case that's heard by the SCOTUS will be a miracle... hopefully by then we have a 9th justice in place that's pro 2a. Because as it stands right now no 2A case will succeed with the 4 liberals sitting on the court. That's reality. EO180 is dead, the legislature isn't going to let it fly. So it was a wasted effort, that basically didn't really change much anyway. The three wildcards are the SAPPA groups case. Trump signing a national receprocity agreement law, or the remote possibly of the DC ruling standing, then the SCOTUS having to rule on a split with the 3rd circuit decision. But that wouldn't matter with a Clinton court justice appointee. Because we know the kind of justice she will choose. Besides as soon as Chrispy Cream is gone next year, our ultra liberal governor replacement is going to reverse EO180 on day one in office. So even if it wasn't shot down by Wineberg, and company it's still a wasted effort that would be around less than a full year. That's reality unfortunately....