Howard 538 Posted May 8, 2016 So I was shooting a USPSA match this weekend and a friend from PA was there shooting and brought his seven year old to watch the match. The boy asked his dad "why do we have to pin the stocks on our rifle when we come to NJ?" My friend started to try to explain it in terms that a seven year old would understand, but could not. His son astutely asked why if you can have one at minimum length and another at maximum length do you need to lock it in place. Perhaps we should pose that exact question to our lawmakers in the NJ and get them to explain the logic of this law and how this does anything to help anything at all. Laws should be such that a father can explain them to his seven year old son. 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
maintenanceguy 509 Posted May 8, 2016 Because the NJSP scammed the legislature. The legislature passed a law that listed "bad" guns and said all guns that were "substantially identical" were also bad. The court correctly ruled that there is no such thing as "substantially identical", Its either identical or it ain't. Instead of throwing the law out, the court let the NJAG decide what "substantially identical" meant. The NJAG turned the job over to the Firearms Investigation Unit of the NJSP who is certainly filled with pro gun troopers. Why would you volunteer to for that assignment if you didn't like being around guns all day? Those troopers wrote a ridiculous list of 5 "evil features" and made the rules very easy to circumvent. The legislators who passed the law don't know the difference. The courts don't know the difference. The AG probably didn't know the difference. The court ruled that that list was good enough and it was adopted into the administrative code where it's been law ever since. 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mipafox 438 Posted May 8, 2016 Because all those guns are banned. Nobody that wrote the law cared about collapsible stocks, that was put in there to ban similar guns that they hadn't thought of just in case. You own these guns because you are exploiting loopholes and violating the spirit of the law, not because of "evil features." That AR or AK you have should be illegal, even without flash hiders or collapsible stocks. You got lucky with the wording of the law, regulatory rulings, and judicial rulings. All of it should be illegal. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Howard 538 Posted May 8, 2016 Because all those guns are banned. Nobody that wrote the law cared about collapsible stocks, that was put in there to ban similar guns that they hadn't thought of just in case. You own these guns because you are exploiting loopholes and violating the spirit of the law, not because of "evil features." That AR or AK you have should be illegal, even without flash hiders or collapsible stocks. You got lucky with the wording of the law, regulatory rulings, and judicial rulings. All of it should be illegal. None of it should be illegal !!!! 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ChrisJM981 924 Posted May 8, 2016 I plan on circumventing the law as soon as I get a back pay check! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Shawnmoore81 623 Posted May 8, 2016 Yeah I love explaining to the guys I work with why they can't bring their ar if they wanna go shooting at a cmp event in nj Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
High Exposure 5,635 Posted May 9, 2016 Aren't the current NJ assault weapon laws based on Clinton's 1994 Assault Weapon Ban? Didn't the Fed Govt come up with all that silliness and NJ just adopted it? That all occurred before I was into shooting. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PK90 3,569 Posted May 9, 2016 NJ was 1990 til forever. Federal was 1994 til 2004. Sent from an undisclosed location via Tapatalk. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
High Exposure 5,635 Posted May 9, 2016 Ah, ok. Thanks. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GRIZ 3,365 Posted May 9, 2016 The federal AWB was basically copied from NJ. Only new 10 rd magazines could be sold under the federal. Any mag over 10 rds was grandfathered and you could keep it unless state law said it was illegal. For the first few years of the NJ AWB you only had to block mags to 15. Somewhere about the late 90s, IIRC, the state said that wasn't good enough and mags had to be permanently altered to accept no more than 15 rds. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Smokin .50 1,907 Posted May 9, 2016 Howard, NICE THREAD! So many stupid laws and so little time spent to FIGHT them. We have a Cornucopia of a menu from which to select appetizer, entree and dessert! Imagine the look on that 7 year old's kisser when Daddy tries to 'splain a NJ-legal BUMP-FIRE stock????????? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
T Bill 649 Posted May 9, 2016 The original and still pending goal was to eliminate all weapons, but that would not fly, so they started with semi autos. Now, they would have loved to got rid of all of those, but that would not work either. So they needed to discern between semi auto hunting rifles and these other 'evil' weapons. An icebreaker if you will. So, some idiot law clerk wrote into legalese the only other way to segregate these firearms into a class by themselves. Use the technical innovations incorporated into the new weapon as a discerning factor because the basic function of the weapon is the same. Even handguns got a slap across the face with weight restrictions. This attempt lead to patchwork of laws, because they knew what they didn't like, but had a problem masking their intentions through legislation. Don't you ever wonder why they never went back and closed the apparent loop holes found in the late nineties. They had every opportunity to do so, but never really did. OGAM was the best Corrzine could accomplish and that was buried in other legislation at the last minute. Now starting in 2017 they will try to close the loopholes again because they feel they are empowered. In control again. People, it's all about power and control. If they thought for a minute their actions would find them out on the street looking for work, nothing would pass. 2 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Howard 538 Posted May 9, 2016 Well I guess we just have to equate this with cars so the idiots on the left can see how stupid this is. Imagine if you would that the law said when you buy a new car that the seat has to be pinned to one position. It will be perfectly legal to have the seat in the all the way forward position or the all the way back position, but you will not be allowed to move it once the dealer sells you the car. So now you will have to buy multiple cars if you are 6'-5" and your wife who is 5'-2" wants to be able to drive as well. You might even have to buy multiple cars if you want to be able to drive in heavy winter gear and also drive in shorts in the summer. Just imagine. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mipafox 438 Posted May 9, 2016 Well I guess we just have to equate this with cars so the idiots on the left can see how stupid this is. Imagine if you would that the law said when you buy a new car that the seat has to be pinned to one position. It will be perfectly legal to have the seat in the all the way forward position or the all the way back position, but you will not be allowed to move it once the dealer sells you the car. So now you will have to buy multiple cars if you are 6'-5" and your wife who is 5'-2" wants to be able to drive as well. You might even have to buy multiple cars if you want to be able to drive in heavy winter gear and also drive in shorts in the summer. Just imagine. The car is banned. It's illegal. The manufacturer's lawyers told them if they change the name of the car and pin the seat in one position they can probably sell it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ricky_Bobby 130 Posted May 9, 2016 Whats even dumber is the "illegal" semi-auto shotguns you can't even get a nice aftermarket stock with a pistol grip attached (and fixed LOP regular buttstock) because its so "evil" smh. Working with a realtor now to hopefully get us out of here - NC is looking pretty nice.CCW qualification can be done on a Saturday - and once qualified you just go through regular NICS check to buy handguns, like the rest of the normal states in the Union (45 or so?) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MLArmory 33 Posted May 9, 2016 Because the NJSP scammed the legislature. The legislature passed a law that listed "bad" guns and said all guns that were "substantially identical" were also bad. The court correctly ruled that there is no such thing as "substantially identical", Its either identical or it ain't. Instead of throwing the law out, the court let the NJAG decide what "substantially identical" meant. The NJAG turned the job over to the Firearms Investigation Unit of the NJSP who is certainly filled with pro gun troopers. Why would you volunteer to for that assignment if you didn't like being around guns all day? Those troopers wrote a ridiculous list of 5 "evil features" and made the rules very easy to circumvent. The legislators who passed the law don't know the difference. The courts don't know the difference. The AG probably didn't know the difference. The court ruled that that list was good enough and it was adopted into the administrative code where it's been law ever since. Finally someone who tells it like it is. Everyone wants to dance around the ugly truth staring us in the face. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kevin125 4,772 Posted May 10, 2016 Good post Howard. Kids say the most interesting things sometimes. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
345Sire 158 Posted May 11, 2016 Howard, you is a good daddy! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
345Sire 158 Posted May 11, 2016 None of it should be illegal !!!! NAILED IT!!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gunnarsport 13 Posted May 11, 2016 Once Hillary is elected the slow dead march to firearms ban with start. How sad! The 2nd Amendment is DOOMED once she is sworn in! Lets enjoy ownership while we can because we probably have maybe 6-8 years or so till a ban is complete, just my opinion and a gut feeling I have. If I am wrong, at the VERY least, she will make ammunition so expensive with HUGE tax that the average person will barely be able to afford one box! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites