Interesting Article Today in Nat'l Review re: NJ Gun Law

[Mrs. Peel 7,157]

I quickly scanned the forums and didn't see that anyone else shared this yet (my apologies if it's a duplicate posting - if so, an administrator should feel free to delete). 

 

Synopsis: a high-level military officer who works at Picatinny Arsenal was denied a permit to carry by Oceanport police department. The author (Charles Cooke) is suggesting that the denial of 2nd amendment rights in NJ is so onerous as to require Federal intervention. It's the lead article, prominently displayed on their cover page too. Not sure if a local NJ 2A group prompted this...?

 

http://www.nationalreview.com/article/435564/gun-rights-concealed-carry-second-amendment-new-jersey-us-congress  

 

(Hmmm, I can't seem to create the hypertext link on the article... not sure why. I guess you'll have to copy/paste into your browser).

 

Happy reading...

Mrs. Peel

 

 

[Michael2013 56]

Link works fine, thanks.

[Malsua 1,422]

Good article, although that guy would be happy if they just extended LEOSA to him.   I guess "I got mine" is enough for him.  Oh well.

[NJGF 375]

Excellent article thanks for the link.

[Howard 538]

Just saw this on FB a few minutes ago and was going to share.  This state is a total disgrace.

[Pizza Bob 1,488]

Mrs. Peel, via the National Review, has just handed us an actually viable method of correcting the concealed carry conundrum in this state.

 

For years we have been swimming upstream. We seem to have failed to realize that this is a BLUE state and that we are vastly outnumbered by liberal mouth breathers who have no desire to be educated about guns and the constitution and the fact that it applies to ALL the states. We will never be able to move off the dime against those odds, whether it be judicially or legislatively (on the state level).

 

OTOH, who controls the federal legislature? REPUBLICANS! If we concentrated our efforts on bringing this article, and the recent district judge's ruling in D.C. (yes, I know it probably won't stand on appeal once it reaches the first activist judge's court room, but it stands now), maybe we can, as the article succinctly puts it: "...some crucial mechanisms might start to crank slowly into place . . ." 

Don't waste time contacting our representatives and senators, that's just more of the same and meets Einstein's definition of insanity - we need to contact as many pro-2A legislators, from any state, as possible and call their attention to this article and the draconian laws in NJ. This could actually be the light at the end of the tunnel......or, that might just be a train. What could it hurt?

 

Adios,

 

Pizza Bob

[Michael2013 56]

I'm not sure what the Congress can do.  Pass a law that the states cannot ignore the US Constitution?  But there is already the 14th Amendment which says, in section 1:

"No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States..."

 

Or just exclude this state from the Union altogether for ignoring the Constitution.

   

[siderman 1,137]

Sadly I think this will be much ado about nothing. At best the county prosecuter will intervene for this "hero" and he will get his.He has no skin in this game of rights in NJ which is just another stop in his military career. Case closed. Too much other stuff going on in this country taking the headlines. Surely its no secret NJ is not 2A friendly but the powers that be are busy with their own states and are content to just let the courts figure it out.

[Emortal 6]

Sadly I think this will be much ado about nothing. At best the county prosecuter will intervene for this "hero" and he will get his.He has no skin in this game of rights in NJ which is just another stop in his military career. Case closed. Too much other stuff going on in this country taking the headlines. Surely its no secret NJ is not 2A friendly but the powers that be are busy with their own states and are content to just let the courts figure it out.

 

This has always been the case. Anyone who makes enough noise will quietly be issued a permit. This serves to both invalidate any legal claim that permits aren't being issued and also to dissuade them from continuing to invest their limited time and money battling an opponent with unlimited resources.

[JayWilling 33]

I admit to being pessimistic about NJ rights. But I have to say that this article was very encouraging because of two things:  It points out the vast contrast between NJ and nearly all of the rest of the USA with respect to how our rights are DENIED. Second, it brings up a valid consideration about the role of Congress.

 

The fact is, there may very well be something that Congress can do, especially with the large number of court victories for CCW that have been more and more frequent. The importance and breadth of the Second Amendment are seeing the light of day and being EMBRACED by almost every state. NJ may never be a "good" state for gun rights, but there is a chance that, given the right backing, movement, and involvement in Congress, states can be forced to honor civil rights...it has been done for other civil rights. Good God, look at this silly transgender crap. There may be a way to say, "If you do not honor the basic, Constitutionally guaranteed rights of your citizens, you don't get the $$$, etc. etc.".

 

In addition to the positive court developments, there is also, SAPPA, Party of Six, this new case with the military guy at the armory, plus Shaneen Allen and the other pardon situations....NJ is being made to look tyrannical and capricious. Maybe a LOT of bad exposure and press will help the situation.

 

For me it's a similar feeling to buying a lottery ticket-  I'm 99% sure nothing will come of it, but it's a small dream I can enjoy for a short while.

[NJGF 375]

For me it's a similar feeling to buying a lottery ticket-  I'm 99% sure nothing will come of it, but it's a small dream I can enjoy for a short while.

Me too.

[Kevin125 4,772]

The problem is that NJ says it is not ignoring the Constitution. You can keep and bear arms here. Just only where and how they say. Which they say doesn't mean they are violating our constitutional right, as long as in some way they let us keep and bear arms. At some point they will want to limit the type of firearm to just airsoft. And they'll still say that alone means they are not infringing on our rights.

[Michael2013 56]

Here is a document that shows CCW by state.  A table on pages 12-13 shows % of adult population with CCW.  Here are some numbers if you don't want to read the whole thing:

 

NJ - 0.02%

Our neighbors:

CT - 7.26%

NYC - 0.09% (yes, better then us)

PA - 8.67%

DE - 0.69%

MD - 0.31% (even this one is 15 times more than NJ)

MA - 4.74%

 

http://crimeresearch.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/07/Concealed-Carry-Permit-Holders-Across-the-United-States.pdf

[Kevin125 4,772]

Wow....  that's a pretty damning bit of evidence of a conspiracy against the citizens of NJ.  There's no way they can say they aren't actively violating our Constitutional rights.  That variation can't happen by accident.

[Indianajonze 379]

this is the thing i don't understand. north carolina passes anti transgender bathroom law, which impacts 0.3% of the population, and the feds intervene and file a lawsuit. new jersey (and new york, ct, ca, md, hi)  is actively and willfully infringing the 2nd amendment rights of citizens which impacts 100% of the population, and the feds do NOTHING. it's so outrageous it makes me sick. i want trump to stand up there and state to the world  that if elected he will appoint an attorney general who will actively file suit against the SAFE act, nj's illegal permit laws, the illegal magazine restrictions and every other piece of crap law that violates the constitution. hell, the nra should have demanded such action before endorsing him or any other candidate for office. 

 

on the amusing side, the utah number is funny. i'd bet half of those permits are for people from new jersey lol

[ChrisJM981 924]

Here is a document that shows CCW by state. A table on pages 12-13 shows % of adult population with CCW. Here are some numbers if you don't want to read the whole thing:

 

NJ - 0.02%

Our neighbors:

CT - 7.26%

NYC - 0.09% (yes, better then us)

PA - 8.67%

DE - 0.69%

MD - 0.31% (even this one is 15 times more than NJ)

MA - 4.74%

 

http://crimeresearch.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/07/Concealed-Carry-Permit-Holders-Across-the-United-States.pdf

That number is inflated. In 2014 496 permits to carry were issued in NJ. That's .00548% of the population in NJ.

[Michael2013 56]

...

on the amusing side, the utah number is funny. i'd bet half of those permits are for people from new jersey lol

Florida rather than Utah.  See notes for that table:

†† Only Utah's permits to residents are included here.

º Florida’s number includes a significant number of out of state residents.

[Oleg 8]

Stupid petition like this gets "5,241 needed to reach 150,000" https://www.change.org/p/tell-cabela-s-no-background-check-no-gun-sale

 

How many votes do you think petition to federal government to sue NJ will get?

 

 

this is the thing i don't understand. north carolina passes anti transgender bathroom law, which impacts 0.3% of the population, and the feds intervene and file a lawsuit. new jersey (and new york, ct, ca, md, hi)  is actively and willfully infringing the 2nd amendment rights of citizens which impacts 100% of the population, and the feds do NOTHING. it's so outrageous it makes me sick. i want trump to stand up there and state to the world  that if elected he will appoint an attorney general who will actively file suit against the SAFE act, nj's illegal permit laws, the illegal magazine restrictions and every other piece of crap law that violates the constitution. hell, the nra should have demanded such action before endorsing him or any other candidate for office. 

 

on the amusing side, the utah number is funny. i'd bet half of those permits are for people from new jersey lol

[Ricky_Bobby 130]

this is the thing i don't understand. north carolina passes anti transgender bathroom law, which impacts 0.3% of the population, and the feds intervene and file a lawsuit. new jersey (and new york, ct, ca, md, hi)  is actively and willfully infringing the 2nd amendment rights of citizens which impacts 100% of the population, and the feds do NOTHING. it's so outrageous it makes me sick. i want trump to stand up there and state to the world  that if elected he will appoint an attorney general who will actively file suit against the SAFE act, nj's illegal permit laws, the illegal magazine restrictions and every other piece of crap law that violates the constitution. hell, the nra should have demanded such action before endorsing him or any other candidate for office. 

 

on the amusing side, the utah number is funny. i'd bet half of those permits are for people from new jersey lol

 

Please show me where he has spoken out against the SAFE Act in New York - pretty sure he supported it when it passed as it doesnt affect him - 

 

I'm not picking a fight but everyone thinks because he got the endorsement of the NRA he's all of a sudden going to start having the courts and states enforce Heller and McDonald and all of a sudden carry permits will be issued in NJ, MD, etc. -

 

Show me where he spoke out about it pre-campaign and I'll believe that he may do something.  Other than that, my personal belief is he is more concerned with getting elected and that entails making promises to keep the status quo in our Big Government.

[varna 9]

 

 

  Other than that, my personal belief is he is more concerned with getting elected and that entails making promises to keep the status quo in our Big Government.

 

Holy crap......... is Trump the first person you ever listened to that was running for office??????

I'm not sure what he will do when he gets in office but I damned well KNOW what Clinton will do. Worth a chance in my book.

[Ricky_Bobby 130]

Holy crap......... is Trump the first person you ever listened to that was running for office??????

I'm not sure what he will do when he gets in office but I damned well KNOW what Clinton will do. Worth a chance in my book.

 

No but considering that he is supposed to be "anti-establishment" sure is sounding more and more establishment by the day.  Remember that list of SCOTUS picks with Mike Lee's brother?  He already brushed that off and said that wasn't his real list.

 

The only thing I'll give Hillary is that she is honest about her intentions as far as dismantling the 2nd Amendment goes, I haven't decided yet if I can believe Trump. 

 

And please spare me the "if you dont get behind Trump you're voting for Hillary" brigade.  People said the same about W in regards to Gore and continuing the Clintons and then we got Medicare Part D among other fiscal bombs under HW and W.

 

I'm also not a Gary Johnson fan since hes open borders and a gun grabber himself, McAfee is crazy, Austin Peterson sounds very smart and likable.  If people want to get rallied around Trump then hold him accountable for what he said in the past and his support of progressive ideology only a couple years ago, praising Obama in 2012 etc.

 

 

Yes I am fine with pulling the lever for Trump - I'm just extremely skeptical of what we will get - and I don't think its what we all think.

[NJGF 375]

The only thing I'll give Hillary is that she is honest about her intentions as far as dismantling the 2nd Amendment goes, I haven't decided yet if I can believe Trump. 

Really?

 

"CLINTON: Well, I do support the Second Amendment. That has always been understood."

 

Face the Nation transcripts January 17, 2016

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/face-the-nation-transcripts-january-17-2016-clinton-sanders-rubio-kasich/

[Ricky_Bobby 130]

 

Really?

 

"CLINTON: Well, I do support the Second Amendment. That has always been understood."

 

Face the Nation transcripts January 17, 2016

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/face-the-nation-transcripts-january-17-2016-clinton-sanders-rubio-kasich/

 

 

Playing devil's advocate, but that is a true statement of her and most progressives.  She/They support the Second Amendment but only in the most absolute minimalist sense and in theory, as the Constitution is a "living document" (read her transcript where she says "like any Amendment, reasonable steps can be taken") and it doesn't mean to them today what it meant back then  - but if you read the 2 paragraphs of transcript after that, she supports so little of it to whittle it down over time (which is the exact goal of progressivism, we don't lost the 2A overnight, rather over 100 years and they would be happy with it if their goal is ultimately attained) -

 

Most progressives will say that they support the 2nd Amendment - in a sense that if you own guns you should have to keep your ammunition locked in a separate safe than your guns, which need to be equipped with locks when they are stored inside your home, and only able to take a specified capacity of 5 rounds or less, which you need to also get a background check at point of sale for ammunition from your dealer who will forward records of that sale to the federal database on gun/ammunition buying and make sure that you show your National Firearm Registry License when you make a purchase as well as they also need a photocopy of each sale.

 

That is how Progressives "support" the second amendment, because if they can accomplish that in the next 10 years, when HellaLesbian Hillary is dead and croaked in the next 20, they have a shot of achieving true confiscation.

 

My .02.....

[NJGF 375]

I knew what you were saying and agree. It just got me saying she is being in anyway honest. Diane Feinstein was truly being honest when she said:

 

"If I could’ve gotten 51 votes in the Senate of the United States for an outright ban, picking up every one of them — Mr. and Mrs. America turn ’em all in — I would have done it. I could not do that. The votes weren’t here."

 

Most of the pro gun control people agree with her and would as you said just slowly achieve their goal over years.

[Indianajonze 379]

Please show me where he has spoken out against the SAFE Act in New York - pretty sure he supported it when it passed as it doesnt affect him - 

 

I'm not picking a fight but everyone thinks because he got the endorsement of the NRA he's all of a sudden going to start having the courts and states enforce Heller and McDonald and all of a sudden carry permits will be issued in NJ, MD, etc. -

 

Show me where he spoke out about it pre-campaign and I'll believe that he may do something.  Other than that, my personal belief is he is more concerned with getting elected and that entails making promises to keep the status quo in our Big Government.

 

i said i WANT him to do this. or whatever gop candidate there is. i was praying when there were 17 candidates split on 2 stages that ONE of them would say enough is enough with 2A violations.  the states i mentioned are completely out of control and are now willfully violating all of our rights, whether you choose to exercise them or not

[Pythagoras 2]

 

I'm also not a Gary Johnson fan since hes open borders and a gun grabber himself,

 

Do you have a source re: gun grabber? Not saying you're wrong, but I can't find anything on this

[mipafox 438]

 

Here is a document that shows CCW by state.  A table on pages 12-13 shows % of adult population with CCW.  Here are some numbers if you don't want to read the whole thing:

 

NJ - 0.02%

Our neighbors:

CT - 7.26%

NYC - 0.09% (yes, better then us)

PA - 8.67%

DE - 0.69%

MD - 0.31% (even this one is 15 times more than NJ)

MA - 4.74%

 

http://crimeresearch.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/07/Concealed-Carry-Permit-Holders-Across-the-United-States.pdf

 

 

PA stat is either outdated or just wrong. We are approaching 1/8 adults with LTCF, and that's higher than 9%. We have over a million. Florida barely beats us with a much larger population.

[JC_68Westy 1,024]

No but considering that he is supposed to be "anti-establishment" sure is sounding more and more establishment by the day.  Remember that list of SCOTUS picks with Mike Lee's brother?  He already brushed that off and said that wasn't his real list.

 

The only thing I'll give Hillary is that she is honest about her intentions as far as dismantling the 2nd Amendment goes, I haven't decided yet if I can believe Trump. 

 

And please spare me the "if you dont get behind Trump you're voting for Hillary" brigade.  People said the same about W in regards to Gore and continuing the Clintons and then we got Medicare Part D among other fiscal bombs under HW and W.

 

I'm also not a Gary Johnson fan since hes open borders and a gun grabber himself, McAfee is crazy, Austin Peterson sounds very smart and likable.  If people want to get rallied around Trump then hold him accountable for what he said in the past and his support of progressive ideology only a couple years ago, praising Obama in 2012 etc.

 

 

Yes I am fine with pulling the lever for Trump - I'm just extremely skeptical of what we will get - and I don't think its what we all think.

I don't know anything about Gary Johnson, but a quick Google search shows that he is no gun grabber.

 

Some quotes "I don't believe there should be any restrictions when it comes to firearms. None."

 

"I wanted to make certain that liberties and freedoms are equally available to all, with a limited government which basically ensures that no one is harmful to anyone else."

 

"I'm one of those who believe the bumper sticker: If you outlaw guns, only outlaws will have guns. The first people who are going to be in line to turn in their guns are law-abiding citizens. Criminals are going to be left with guns. I believe that concealed carry is a way of reducing gun violence."

[Ricky_Bobby 130]

http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2016/05/robert-farago/bad-news-gun-owning-libertarians-johnsons-vp-choice-pro-gun-control/

 

I'm trying to pull transcripts of some recent interviews as he hasn't said much recently but I'm sure as he's interviewed more in this cycle he will get more 2A questions since its a "hot issue" with the court balance - but yes in the past I've fully been supportive of him - I don't know what this VP pick of his is trying to accomplish though and it worries me.

[quikz 34]

Not to hurst anyones bubble. But even the NJ "0.02%" (which alone is inflated -imo) is invalid. Of the "0.02%" there are a bunch who has a NJ "ccw" (like myself) and yet it is restricted for "during work hours". So this 0.02 inflated number should actually be 0.015 maximum. I would guesstimate 0.01%(?)