Po6 NJ Carry challenge: COUNT I – VIOLATION OF THE SECOND AMENDMENT

[Ramup422 18]

Let me guess Willet, your insulted i would suggest the conference is for "profit" and expected me to know better and realize that you have large "expenses" in order to make such a conference possible?

 

When the false accusations claim of a "profit" , that sucks right? Knowing of all the hard work you put in to to in making it possible?

 

Yeah, i know how that feeling is, sucks..like when some guys put a Federal lawsuit together to dismantle NJj gun laws and you have all of these expenses and legal bills to make that happen.

 

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[John Willett 70]

Ive never hidden that fact that i refer it to as that.

 

I dont hide that from no one...it is what it is. And i dont support bullshit, just like you dont support our bullshit, right?

 

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On point one, fair enough, but your peeps don't seem to have gotten that message. 

 

There will be another conference in 2017.  Come and decide based on experience what you think it is.   We are posting all the videos we could capture to YouTube, check them out. (Some of the conference is lost due to the power outage that occurred).

 

This year we had 13 students in the continuing legal education course on NJ Firearms Law.  6 of off them were attorneys.  We got them state CLE credit on gun law and now they are better prepared to represent their clients!  I think that alone represents something new and different, and isn't a dog and pony show.  

 

There was an NRA Family day at the range on Sunday that weekend, in connection with the conference.  They alone had 300 people come and learn to shoot or a new shooting or archery discipline.  We plan to expand on that next year as well.  

 

I take the education in our name seriously, and will stand by our programs.

 

FYI:  If you do come, do not introduce yourself to my wife under any circumstances. She isn't as tolerant as me

 

I may not believe that your case will be a game changer for us here in NJ, but I can work with people I disagree with when our interests align.  My problem with your group right now is you've attacked people who work on this issue in good faith and given me reason not to trust you all .  I would love for that to change, but it will take serious time and effort.

[10X 3,296]

I wonder if the anti-gun groups are able to work with each other more effectively than we in the pro-2A community do?

 

I suspect they can, and that may account for some of their success.

[Ramup422 18]

Thank you for what you're doing..i wish you all the luck in helping change NJ, you guys will need it.. take the lead in winning NJ from here on end. Ill support who ever takes over the fight

 

Another lawsuit against NJ was initiated this morning by the po6..look it up.

 

 

 

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[John Willett 70]

For this thread to come to a relatively amicable end, I think, is a step in the right direction.  

[JackDaWack 2,895]

I'd say it's more like selling snake oil to the ill. They know they're desperate and they prey in that with promises of health and vitality-when the goal is only to benefit themselves.

This is pretty much what i have taken away from this. Rob you asked a very important question that went completely ignored because i think the answer is obvious.

 

 

I really wish you came to the tavern meeting last month in Randolph. The lawyer explained the entire plan. It's not going to end if 6 guys get their permits.

So what is the plan? If they win these cases how does it get us closer to our goal?

[DeerSlayer 241]

This is pretty much what i have taken away from this. Rob you asked a very important question that went completely ignored because i think the answer is obvious.

 

 

So what is the plan? If they win these cases how does it get us closer to our goal?

The case will continue on, eventually resulting in either consealed carry or open carry for the rest of us. I'm not going to lay out the exact strategies on a public forum. They're discussed privately on Facebook, and at the tavern meetings. Maybe next time the law team flies back to NJ there will be more meetings with them present to explain it further.

[John Willett 70]

ive referred to this as a generational fight too, but one in which I am willing to engage. Antis have largely succeeded in killing lawful gun culture here. First step is trying to grow it as much as possible. Some people visibly doing great work on that front with programs, others doing it with friends and family. All those efforts count.

[Old Glock guy 1,127]

For this thread to come to a relatively amicable end, I think, is a step in the right direction.  

 

Can we have a group hug and sing Kumbaya?

[Rob0115 1,105]

Not yet, I'm stewing so I may need to get a couple of other things off my chest.  If that's going to upset everyone than I'll shut up.  

[bhunted 887]

Not yet, I'm stewing so I may need to get a couple of other things off my chest. If that's going to upset everyone than I'll shut up.

Stew away. I'm getting some popcorn and a beer. [emoji481][emoji535][emoji102][emoji104]

 

 

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[Purple Patrick 638]

Not yet, I'm stewing so I may need to get a couple of other things off my chest. If that's going to upset everyone than I'll shut up.

This thread couldn't go any more downhill so I say go for it!

 

this signature exceeds the 15 character capacity count

[Manchee 2]

The case will continue on, eventually resulting in either consealed carry or open carry for the rest of us. I'm not going to lay out the exact strategies on a public forum. They're discussed privately on Facebook, and at the tavern meetings. Maybe next time the law team flies back to NJ there will be more meetings with them present to explain it further.

We are intending on having a meeting in South Jersey.

[voyager9 3,433]

Not yet, I'm stewing so I may need to get a couple of other things off my chest.

Like Newt's tshirts?

 

 

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[Rob0115 1,105]

Like Newt's tshirts?

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Nah, I'm gonna be done. My rant would have been more around taking advantage of people in desperation but I've moved on.

[Rob0115 1,105]

The case will continue on, eventually resulting in either consealed carry or open carry for the rest of us. I'm not going to lay out the exact strategies on a public forum. They're discussed privately on Facebook, and at the tavern meetings. Maybe next time the law team flies back to NJ there will be more meetings with them present to explain it further.

Yes Facebook the ultimate purveyor of privacy. I don't believe any law suit will overturn NJ law only a change in the electorate. However, I hope I'm wrong.

[Rob0115 1,105]

Wait I am confused - I thought the SAPPA guys were going to overturn NJ law with *their* lawsuit - or is it this one????????  I'm confused......... 

 

NOTHING is going to change NJ until you change the legislature - *BUT* I hope I am wrong........until then this is going into overdrive -

 

 

I think we're agreeing but I had way to much to drink last night.  

[Kevin125 4,772]

I had a conversation with Mike, he was disappointed that Angelos shirt was mistakenly overlooked. That week he had sent out 20 shirts, out of the 20, 1 was overlooked.  So this week when Mark found the oversight, Mike wanted to hand deliver the shirt to you, and apologize. But his work schedule wouldn't allow him to do that, so he mailed it out. 

 

Now, that's a man with integrity.

 

Now Rob, as you sit behind the keyboard warrior command post, I ask you, what are you doing to fight NJ? Besides being a key board warrior? Its because of guys like you, that NJ will never respect your 2A rights, many of you are to afraid of such a win, for one reason or the other.

 

Now Nick, how was Mike intimidating? from what I understand, Joe was very enthusiastic in supporting the Po6......And the same question I raised to Rob above applies to you...Let me know how "YOUR FIGHT" works out

 

Have a nice day and carry on....oh, wait, that's right, "YOU" can't "carry" on. :-)

 

That was a non-answer.

 

Mike's call to Joe was clearly an attempt to apply some retribution to Nickjc for his comment here.  Confirmed by you relaying "He looks forward to discussing it with you".

 

Other than a bunch of you finding Nick and beating the crap out of him, that's among the most unprofessional ways that could have been handled.  What should have been said here was something like, "I'm sorry you feel that way Nickjc, but we believe in our cause and our effort.  We're doing the best we can to make this happen.  If you have suggestions, we'd like to hear them. We may not utilize them, but we appreciate the input."

 

But to make a call that very well could have gotten a guy fired.. that's just petty and vindictive.  Nothing you've said here since then has changed my opinion.  I do get it that we, as gun owners, are not professional "organizers" or experienced fund raisers.  I doubt any of us could do the things we all talk about to perfection.  But for Christ's sake, if you want support.. don't take cheap shots at anyone that criticizes you. 

 

I hope you guys succeed at making the changes you described here as your goal.  But take some free advice.... You learn more from listening than from talking.

[Ramup422 18]

Wait I am confused - I thought the SAPPA guys were going to overturn NJ law with *their* lawsuit - or is it this one???????? I'm confused.........

 

NOTHING is going to change NJ until you change the legislature - *BUT* I hope I am wrong........until then this is going into overdrive -

 

How do we change the legislators in NJ?

 

Do we vote them out? Tried that multiple times, last year, we lost more ground than ever before. Now the left has a super majority.

 

Can we over power the vote from the inner cities, like Newark, JC, Paterson, or Large blue counties like Essex, Hudson, Union, Middlesex, Camden, Bergen and the rest of the freeloading loafers?...not so much.

 

What else can we do? Hostile takeover? Again, not many on our side for that.

 

NJ is Blue and it's getting darker blue by the day.

 

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[Newtonian 453]

How do we change the legislators in NJ?

 

Do we vote them out? Tried that multiple times, last year, we lost more ground than ever before. Now the left has a super majority.

 

Can we over power the vote from the inner cities, like Newark, JC, Paterson, or Large blue counties like Essex, Hudson, Union, Middlesex, Camden, Bergen and the rest of the freeloading loafers?...not so much.

 

What else can we do? Hostile takeover? Again, not many on our side for that.

 

NJ is Blue and it's getting darker blue by the day.

 

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Nobody "tried" not even once much less "multiple times." Even the Republican party in this state doesn't really give a shit. The individuals can run as either party. They're interchangeable.

 

You don't go after Newark and Camden. They're lost. You go after vulnerable candidates in close districts. "Swing" districts or "battleground" districts to use a national election analogy.

 

I identified about 8 (between the assembly and senate) where the margin of victory was relatively small. In one district both Republicans lost by a total of less than 400 votes if I recall. All the details are in my previous posts but in a nutshell there are supposedly 1.2 million gun owners in this state. I made ample allowances for all sorts of factors including the traditional 15-20% turnout and still came up with a very very large number of untapped potential swing voters. Conservatively enough to swing 2-3 seats. From a pure fantasy perspective more than enough to turn the legislature completely around and send Sweeney back to stuffing asbestos into tractor insulation.

 

Even one or two seats would have sent a message.

 

Instead I got no interest from my representatives, none from the county Republican party, none from the state party, and none from Midway or Cabela's (I thought they might be interested in including a coupon on a mailer that I was ready to pay for myself).

 

Oh and did I mention that there was close to zero interest in these forums? Instead they were out taking showers on Sweeney's front lawn, in an effort to "WE'LL MAKE THEM SHIT IN THEIR PANTS!!!! LOL OMG!!!"

 

Suddenly everyone was a freelance proctologist. 

 

We know how that turned out. Some time in late July the Man of La Mancha disappeared from sight, along with Calibernicus his squire, who is venerated as a living, breathing God among the NJ gun elite. No statement, nothing but some numbers plagiarized from the Pennsauken telephone directory meant to represent the number of signatures of everyone on earth. Or the actual number of signatures acquired to the 27th power. 

 

But who got blamed for it? Me. Because I'm negative. I'm a downer. I myself didn't volunteer so how the frick could I criticize them? After all they were doing SOMETHING. Even if that SOMETHING had about a 0.002% chance of succeeding.

 

"MURDERER!" they screamed on the sidewalk outside Sweeney's home. 

 

He peaked out from behind his blinds and calmly turned on his sprinklers, no doubt wishing it was zyklon B. 

 

Speaking of which WTF is Mipafox?

[JackDaWack 2,895]

Yes Facebook the ultimate purveyor of privacy. I don't believe any law suit will overturn NJ law only a change in the electorate. However, I hope I'm wrong.

I'm no conspiracy theorist, and im sure we have lurkers here who are anti...... but were not looking for a strategic break down of the case either. It really shouldn't be difficult to describe how these cases, or cases to come will help pull down these laws. Trust me, you will not be catching anyone off guard and the state will give themselves plenty of time to counter any plans you have. You will have to work the case through appeals and ultimately fight the constitutionality of the law. We already have the 9th circuit saying no..

[Rob0115 1,105]

I'm no conspiracy theorist, and im sure we have lurkers here who are anti...... but were not looking for a strategic break down of the case either. It really shouldn't be difficult to describe how these cases, or cases to come will help pull down these laws. Trust me, you will not be catching anyone off guard and the state will give themselves plenty of time to counter any plans you have. You will have to work the case through appeals and ultimately fight the constitutionality of the law. We already have the 9th circuit saying no..

Yes it was me nicely calling bullshit. What's the big secret?

[jeff47 30]

I don't know about anyone else but I'll agree that this thread has been epic. Thanks all for making it so illuminating. Special thanks to Newtonian and Nickjc.

 

So Newtonian, did your shirt and patch ever show up?

[Newtonian 453]

 

This fine swag arrived yesterday. As you can see Po6 wins the two-way t-shirt design competition. Nice color, simple design. If the patch irons on I will attach it to a jeans jacket. If you can zoom in to the note they enclosed you'll clearly see it reads "To Newtonian, the voice of reason, fighter to the death for the 2nd Amendment, best shooter on earth, most knowledgeable gun owner, slayer of dragons, all-knowing, all-loving, etc." 

 

After this EPIC thread, after receiving my well-deserved shirt and patch, I'm ready to press the reset button with these guys. I'll donate towards receiving that ermine-lined diamond-studded WWII ostrich leather bombadier shooting jacket if they can demonstrate progress. 

[jackandjill 683]

......

 

After this EPIC thread, after receiving my well-deserved shirt and patch, I'm ready to press the reset button with these guys. I'll donate towards receiving that ermine-lined diamond-studded WWII ostrich leather bombadier shooting jacket if they can demonstrate progress. 

 Can't wait for Season 2. 

[Newtonian 453]

 Can't wait for Season 2. 

Hold on. They're offering popcorn? How much?

[DeerSlayer 241]

How do we change the legislators in NJ?

 

Do we vote them out? Tried that multiple times, last year, we lost more ground than ever before. Now the left has a super majority.

 

Can we over power the vote from the inner cities, like Newark, JC, Paterson, or Large blue counties like Essex, Hudson, Union, Middlesex, Camden, Bergen and the rest of the freeloading loafers?...not so much.

 

What else can we do? Hostile takeover? Again, not many on our side for that.

 

NJ is Blue and it's getting darker blue by the day.

 

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You can't change the entire legislature, but the districts could be changed so the Democrats gerrymandering game is somewhat haulted. They purposely adjusted the district boundaries so they can't loose... it's bullshit!

[DeerSlayer 241]

Albert Almeida received his permit today from the court. Congratulations...

[DeerSlayer 241]

He demonstrated HIS NEED and it met THE STANDARD. ..... see permits ARE granted in nj......

 

Now watch how they fade into the ether..... nothing changes and will not change.... .... just more ammunition to show that may issue is alive and well in nj

Such a negative Nancy... This movement is still moving forward. Albert will still be there in the fight. He's not going away, as he said he wouldn't be. There's still a Co defendant moving the same case forward as well. If they issue Michael Tuminelli a permit, then another person will add their name to the case as a plaintiff, and that will continue all the way to the SCOTUS if necessary.

[DeerSlayer 241]

Lol..... realist

 

 

Once they have what THEY want. ..they will move along...there is nothing IN IT FOR THEM to continue to fight. ...nothing

 

Scotus?

 

U can't be serious....

We can all join the suit if need be. As things move along. BTW Google Stephen Stamboulieh esq. He's one of the main attorneys handling the case. Look at the 2A cases he's won federally. The guy's the real deal. He's suing the ATF on behalf of his state over NFA items. And is making some serious progress. You don't have to believe if you don't want to. But I met him, and he's not a bullshitter he's pretty real and extremely serious about this case.