News flash heavily armed people arrested at Holland tunnel.

[Newtonian 453]

So essentially, the SCOTUS ruled the 4th Amendment no longer applies to vehicle stops? Unreal....

The case was more complicated than that but we are headed in that direction. The "smell of marijuana" is already sufficient probable cause. Given that most people who are stopped wind up foaming at the mouth, there are all sorts of quasi-legal avenues to unlawful searches.

[BlueLineFish 615]

Smell of marijuana wasn't pc for a vehicle search of a vehicle for awhile in NJ. We got that back now

[mipafox 438]

Great news. Fuck Jersey.

[mikelets456 78]

that is not the point of this thread.

 

you were alluding to that the stop and the subsequent prosecution were somehow an Infringment of his rights.....

 

no?

 

 

all else is bullschein..... at the moment.

No, the point is, according to the Constitution---did he do anything wrong? No! We have bought into laws that bypass inalienable rights----these rights shall not be infringed or altered.One can not simply make a law to bypass a God given or actual, written "in stone" right. Just like the 4th and 5th amendments have been unconstitutionally altered as well. 

 

My point is, we have bought into the narrative and we need to change it....now! It's at the point where it's illegal to own a BB-gun in NJ without a FID card. Seriously, how did it get this bad? We have been complacent and bought into the narrative of the media and our government.  That's all I'm saying---according to the law of the land (Constitution) this guy did no wrong. He wasn't a criminal until someone in this state simply deemed he was....we need to reverse these illegal laws and until we start calling out how ridiculous these laws are and reversing them, then we're the problem. It's an inalienable right----period! 

[High Exposure 5,661]

Why must we continually make asshats the poster children for gun rights? This guy was/is a clown that SHOULD HAVE KNOWN BETTER......... !

There are so many other better examples of our rights being taken away, legislated away - down right trampled - ----- this is NOT one of them.

Quoted for truth.

[siderman 1,137]

Why must we continually make asshats the poster children for gun rights? This guy was/is a clown that SHOULD HAVE KNOWN BETTER......... !

There are so many other better examples of our rights being taken away, legislated away - down right trampled - ----- this is NOT one of them.

 

Quoted for truth.

 

I'll add a +1 for this.

[mikelets456 78]

You assertion is incorrect.  I can hear it next, why does he even need a license to drive right?  He has a right to travel ..... 

 

I see your point to a degree, yes the laws for a BB gun in NJ are silly, but that *IS* the law currently and yes it should be changed......

 

You are from PA, I see - do you have a CCW permit from PA?  Any other state?

 

If you do, they why do you?  Your 2A should be *your* carry permit.......right? 

 

 

 

*IF* the stop was bad, the evidence garnered due to an illegal search, will be tossed out.  No?

 

*IF* the stop was good, did he not break the law by transporting arms in the manner with which he did?  Yes.

 

Was his premeditated Facebook posted intent to commit a felony justification enough for a stop and search, I don't know - maybe.

 

Why must we continually make asshats the poster children for gun rights?  This guy was/is a clown that SHOULD HAVE KNOWN BETTER......... !

There are so many other better examples of our rights being taken away, legislated away - down right trampled - -----  this is NOT one of them.

 

As Baretta used to say, "don't do the crime if you cant due the time............"

 

 

Yes, I do have a PA LTCF and a FL/UT CCW---because that's the law right NOW. I discuss with friends, family and politicians the need to rid of silly carry regulations, point out how "Constitutional carry" states have lower crime and so forth. However, you all just bash the gun owner, even if you disagree with the law. Let people know these laws are stupid---know the facts and figures. I see your point regarding permits...but all I'm asking, according to the 2A, did he do anything illegal? No!!! It's clear he did not.

 

Now with that being said, was it stupid of him---yes. Did he know he was breaking the law---I can guarantee he knew. 

 

But the point is, how long are far are we willing to let this go before we say "if we didn't have these crazy laws on an inalienable right, he would be fine". If he were in PA what would be the outcome of this story---nothing! If he were in AR---nothing. Probably over 40 or so states this guy would have been WELL within his legal bounds. But for some reason, people from NJ continue to sit here and bash the gun owner...where he had broken no other law otherwise. Then you wonder why NJ is so anti-gun???? You guys are your own worst enemy.

 

I used to live in NJ---for 30+ years and the gun culture is this way because someone that breaks one of the most silly laws, you all get up on this site or preach to "non gun owners" that this guy or that person was stupid for having a loaded BB-gun in a car. Or so and so was dumb for having a loaded magazine in his car. You all need to start making the case that NJ has such stupid laws and stop bashing the gun owner for simply exercising his right. 

 

on the other hand,Shooting someone out of ignorance, pointing a gun at someone or doing something dangerous is something WORTH arguing about and then talking about responsible gun ownership.... But to simply get on gun owner after gun owner for simply having a gun in a car while passing through or stopping for gas does not help your/our cause. Until you stop making excuses for crazy gun laws, you'll never flip NJ. maybe the argument should be---if this happened in PA, WV or even DE, would it have been an issue? The answer in "NO"! Then why should it make a difference in NJ...NY? Other than some left leaning nutcake making stupid laws, you guys are giving "ammo" to the anti's and bashing the gun owner makes it seem these radical laws are justified.

 

BTW, I'm not making this guy the "poster child" for gun laws--- I know better than to go through or in NJ/NY with any firearm. But the question begs, why? I have gone to NJ gun rallies, I've written your politicians and tried helping any way I could. However, it seems that you all want to make gun ownership legal but only in the confines of the "crazy" state laws. It's not done that way---step out of the box. Fight for the gun owner that's being oppressed by these harsh laws.

 

I often wonder how I can sit at Washington's crossing in PA open carrying my .40 M&P yet realize I would be tackled and arrested if i were 100 yards across the river---it could happen. A wrong turn, detoured traffic, etc. At that point would you bash the "stupid" gun owner or point out the flawed, oppressive NJ laws that put me in prison for 10+ years?

 

Anyway, we need to be in this fight together and I'm on your side...I'm just trying to make a point. Take care---

[mipafox 438]

 

You assertion is incorrect.  I can hear it next, why does he even need a license to drive right?  He has a right to travel ..... 

 

I see your point to a degree, yes the laws for a BB gun in NJ are silly, but that *IS* the law currently and yes it should be changed......

 

You are from PA, I see - do you have a CCW permit from PA?  Any other state?

 

If you do, they why do you?  Your 2A should be *your* carry permit.......right? 

 

 

 

*IF* the stop was bad, the evidence garnered due to an illegal search, will be tossed out.  No?

 

*IF* the stop was good, did he not break the law by transporting arms in the manner with which he did?  Yes.

 

Was his premeditated Facebook posted intent to commit a felony justification enough for a stop and search, I don't know - maybe.

 

Why must we continually make asshats the poster children for gun rights?  This guy was/is a clown that SHOULD HAVE KNOWN BETTER......... !

There are so many other better examples of our rights being taken away, legislated away - down right trampled - -----  this is NOT one of them.

 

As Baretta used to say, "don't do the crime if you cant due the time............"

 

 

And this is attitude is precisely why you will always be screwed. Enjoy.

[Newtonian 453]

You three Shetland ponies of the apocalypse are confusing issues and yelling about completely different topics. Welcome to the Greater New Jersey Gun Debate. 

 

NJ knife law provides very broad leeway within lawful uses of common objects, which is more or less sensible and a potential model for gun rights (or driving rights or paper clip rights). The key word is "lawful" (as in the standard justification for obtaining a NY carry permit: "For all legal purposes"). 

 

Guaranteed if these guys were stopped in a state that respects constitutional carry, and had run their mouths off about rescuing a crack whore from oxycontin dealers in Middlebury or Fargo they would also be arrested, or at least detained. Their firearms in most places would be ancillary to their intent to commit a crime, associate with criminals, and engage in potentially lethal activity with (presumably) known criminals. 

 

I think everyone here is in agreement that merely possessing firearms as they did should not be a crime.

 

Which brings up the third point, namely that in NJ that behavior will get you arrested, tried, convicted, and sentenced to a much longer term than if you actually shot someone, provided you possess the right degree of melanin and are on the NJ "catch and release" list, on which the financial security of our corrupt legal system depends. See this article if you think I'm merely being a racist exaggerator. 

 

Every time an incident like this arises we have the same discussion of whether "they should have known." As I've pointed out numerous times there are 1000s of Federal laws on the books that can get you Graves Act-like or longer sentences in Federal prison with no parole and 99% conviction rates. Some involve such nefarious acts as possessing a lobster of a certain size or draining a 5x10 patch in your back yard. There are literally 10s of 1000s of regulations with equally dire consequences that hold the force (or critically, the "color") of law. We can't possibly know all this bullshit, or expect individuals who grew up with guns all around them to consider that such ridiculous pseudo-laws as we have exist. 

 

 

Put yourself in their shoes. They don't lurk the NJGFs debating the finer points of "justifiable need" or "reasonable deviations." That stuff is as foreign to them as 3rd century BC Japanese philosophy is to you. It's out of the realm of their consciousness. I don't care if they're from Arkansas or just crawled out of the swamps of Lake Valhalla and began walking upright last Thursday. 

 

Let's also cut some slack for the potential Stockholm Syndrome that affects many NJ gun owners. It's hard to watch the other kids playing when you're stuck inside with a lifelong case of the grippe. 

 

Ignorance of the law being no excuse was valid back when our legislatures actually passed laws that were based on common sense. As far as I'm concerned it ceased to be a valid legal principle at least forty years ago when we transitioned from a nation of laws to a nation of administrative whim.

[OfcrFek 21]

Alternatively imagine if this dope, made it past the holland tunnel, got over the BB, made it to, say bushwick and then came out guns blazing and got into some exchange of gunfire with the dealers and or heaven forbid the NYPD.  We as gun owners would be crucified as crazy vigilantes.

 

^This. Because that's exactly how anti-gunners fight/think. What one criminal does with a gun also defines all of us law abiding citizens in their eyes.

[capt14k 2,052]

I can't believe all the resurgence of heroin nowadays. When I was a kid we smoked banana peels, licked frogs, and freebased Clearasil. We got by just fine without the dope.

Where the hell did you grow up? I've heard of people falling for the hoax that banana peels get you high. Licking frogs? None that live in this area. Freebasing Clearasil? That has to take a special kind of stupid to try. Not meant as a personal attack, I've just never heard of that one before.

 

As for Heroin the epidemic is out of control. While it existed in the late 1980s and early 1990s it seemed to be relegated to rock stars and old school junkies. No one I know used Heroin or even saw it. Maybe it was because Nancy Reagan's "Just say No" campaign actually worked.

 

Our illustrious First Lady today would rather go after school lunches. It seems Obama has allowed the Heroin epidemic to spread, in order to keep Karzai happy, and serve his corporate masters. Karzai's Brother is the Largest Afghan Poppy Farmer. It just seems our government is doing nothing to stem the Heroin Crisis, but is very focused on disarming the populace.

 

I don't blame anyone who goes vigilante on a Heroin Dealer who lost a child to Heroin, but these guys must have grown up Freebasing Clearasil to go about it the way they did. It never ceases to amaze me the stupidity in this world.

 

Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk

[Zeke 5,504]

http://www.nj.com/hudson/index.ssf/2017/01/charges_holland_tunnel_gun_cache.html#incart_river_mobileshort_home

 

Looks like they are arguing illegal stop

[InFamous 311]

 

The defense, particularly Cramsey's lawyer, James Lisa, and Arendt's, Thomas Mirigliano, attacked Basile's assertion that he did not even notice the large slogans, arms-related symbols or even the large, lime-green cooler on the pickups front-end until after he had spotted the crack in the windshield.

  

"You said that when you approached the vehicle, you saw the crack on the windshield but you missed the big green cooler on the front?" Mirigliano asked, after projecting a large photograph of the vehicle's front end in which the cooler was prominent but the crack was barely visible.

"It isn't clear in the picture," Basile responded, citing glare in the photo. "It's easier to see it with the naked eye."  

Security camera footage showed Basile approach the pickup's passenger side from a distance of about 15 to 20 feet, then walk around the back as it rolled slowly forward to check on the rear plate. Then, he said, he walked to the driver's side window and knocked, leading to the discovery of an ammunition cartridge.

 

"As soon as he rolled down the window I saw the magazine clip," Basile said.

 

He didn't notice any of the truck markings, only the cracked windshield....suuuuuureee....

 

I'm guessing the bolded means he saw something like this?

 

[Zouave 13]

 

For anyone interested, VICE News just put this out on him.  You hear from him, his ex-wife and his ex-biz partner but I believe it covers a lot of what's already been brought up here before as far as his motivation (his daughter OD'ing on heroin) and the FB stuff...

[45Doll 5,873]

I remember reading at the time that the young woman in question didn't need any help

 

Now she's dead. Can you guess what killed her?

[Purple Patrick 638]

Shocking development

 

this signature exceeds the 15 character capacity count

[diamondd817 826]

Ironic twist of events.

[gleninjersey 2,139]

I remember reading at the time that the young woman in question didn't need any help

 

Now she's dead. Can you guess what killed her?

Sad. Obviously she needed help. I may not agree with his method (driving armed through NYC) but he tried.

[Zeke 5,504]

If you take a large step back.

 

What happened here did exactly what?

Are WE safer now?

[Handyman 5,682]

If you take a large step back.

 

What happened here did exactly what?

Are WE safer now?

We might have been if the cops had let this poor guy shoot up the heroin den.

[W2MC 1,699]

And it continues....

 

http://www.nj.com/hudson/index.ssf/2017/04/cramsey_rejects_plea_deal_in_holland_tunnel_gun_ca.html

[CMJeepster 2,777]

And it continues....

 

http://www.nj.com/hudson/index.ssf/2017/04/cramsey_rejects_plea_deal_in_holland_tunnel_gun_ca.html

The justice system needs an enema.

[tattooo 220]

What a discreet choice of a vehicle to do an " drug saving extraction " in .....yet he had drugs in his truck.....lol

 

Sent from my SM-G925P using Tapatalk

[raz-0 1,259]

What a discreet choice of a vehicle to do an " drug saving extraction " in .....yet he had drugs in his truck.....lol

 

Sent from my SM-G925P using Tapatalk

Yeah, every quote and description of this tells me the stupid runs deep and painful with these folks.

[BlueLineFish 615]

Not the poster children for gun rights advocates. This crew of buffoons just makes all of us look bad

[tattooo 220]

Not the poster children for gun rights advocates. This crew of buffoons just makes all of us look bad

You are absolutely correct

 

Sent from my SM-G925P using Tapatalk

[djg0770 481]

Not the poster children for gun rights advocates. This crew of buffoons just makes all of us look bad

They don't make me look anything. I have nothing in common with these people who obviously had a few screws loose.

[BlueLineFish 615]

You know as well as I do that gun owners are painted with very broad brush strokes by the liberal media

[Averagejoeshmo 11]

That ugly truck of his is still sitting in a parking lot at the entrance to the tunnel

[jm1827 284]

You know as well as I do that gun owners are painted with very broad brush strokes by the liberal media

Unfortunately this is 100% correct, the main stream liberal media sees this a "middle of the road" gun owners, I am sure they think that the majority of us are even worse than this!