Massachusetts AG - new assault weapons ban

[voyager9 3,434]

The legislature is not happy with AG Healey

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B31OP7322RQXeEIwMW44S1duZTBpMGkxczFSU2tTMnV6dXZ3/view?pref=2&pli=1

They don't want the court to throw out their entire law based on the AGs new interpretation

[siderman 1,138]

The legislature is not happy with AG Healey

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B31OP7322RQXeEIwMW44S1duZTBpMGkxczFSU2tTMnV6dXZ3/view?pref=2&pli=1

The MINORITY legislature is not happy.....not sure how that works in MA but here the Republican minority gets run over all the time especially about the 2A. The letter of course makes perfect sense but thats never been on the anti agenda.

[345Sire 158]

The legislature is not happy with AG Healey

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B31OP7322RQXeEIwMW44S1duZTBpMGkxczFSU2tTMnV6dXZ3/view?pref=2&pli=1

It's encouraging to see so many names listed in the signatures of that letter!

[Oakridgefirearms 224]

Just curious... since long guns don't require a permit (is that, in fact, the same in Mass as it is here?), why would any police force even know that a Mass. resident owned a much-dreaded, soul-sucking AR-15 (or any other kind of long gun for that matter)? 

 

As I understand it, there's a NICS check done (which doesn't verify a purchase even happened, right?); and then there's a sales record kept, I presume, with the firearms dealer who sold it. But, there's no "registry" per se, right? The sales receipt doesn't go to the Feds, is that right?

 

If above is correct, is that why the rate of non-compliance has supposedly been so high with the NY SAFE act? Have a lot of NY owners  basically rolled the dice and said, "well, chances are really good they don't even know I have this AR-15... so why should I turn it in?" Is that the gist of it? (Still don't have a good handle on the legal process, I'm afraid - so, thanks in advance for any clarifying answers).

Mass requires all guns, including long guns, to be registered - so they would know what "assault weapons" a person owns.

 

Fortunately NJ does not have a long gun registry - so the state could only look up what someone bought by doing physical audits of 4473's or a dealer's A&D book - a needle in a haystack- NJSP simply doesn't have the resources to do so.

[Shawnmoore81 623]

Or they just log it during inspections. It'll take a while but it's possible.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[siderman 1,138]

Mass requires all guns, including long guns, to be registered - so they would know what "assault weapons" a person owns.

 

Fortunately NJ does not have a long gun registry - so the state could only look up what someone bought by doing physical audits of 4473's or a dealer's A&D book - a needle in a haystack- NJSP simply doesn't have the resources to do so.

Would you know if NJ currently has the authority to "require" FFLs themselves to submit a list ? Putting aside any discussion about the obvious burden that would place on FFLs, just if NJ can place that burden on dealers. 

[Indianajonze 379]

nm

[Old Glock guy 1,127]

So the Massachusetts AG can summarily and unilaterally change the law to ban a weapon in common use, but our useless AG won't uphold the Constitution and permit us to defend ourselves with CCW's.

[JohnnyB 4,325]

So the Massachusetts AG can summarily and unilaterally change the law to ban a weapon in common use, but our useless AG won't uphold the Constitution and permit us to defend ourselves with CCW's.

In Massachusetts, the AG is elected and has much more power than our AG who is appointed by the sitting Governor. Just look at how quick Sweeney undid the AG's justifiable need wording.

[shooter28 153]

Ive been following this closely as my parents live in MA and have "assault weapons."  Apparently, the AG came out of the blue with this announcement. If you notice during the initial news conference, there was not a single legislature by her side. When we first started making calls, almost no one had any clue what we were talking about.  By herself, she changed the meaning of a law that is 22 years old, suggests that all previous MA AG's and federal gov have been interpreting the AWB wrong all this time. What Healey has done goes way beyond gun rights as she essentially stripped power away from the legislative branch. Also, in doing so, she made every "assault weapon" owner a felon in waiting. She is claiming that all the "MA compliant" guns have illegal but is using prosecutorial discretion not to charge people who bought them before 7/20 "at this time." That could change at any point.

 

I'm hoping it gets turned over quickly but who knows in that state. The AG's life partner is an appeals court judge so you know how that will go if it goes to her. If this new

[T Bill 649]

If the electorate in MA can target one elected state official and vote them out this November, it will send a message to the Statehouse that they cannot ignore.  Otherwise, it is up to the courts and if it sticks, the cancer will spread.  NY, CT, MA, RI?, guess who is next?

[gleninjersey 2,141]

Correct. You can't look at a law in Mass as a template for a law in NJ. NJ politicians will look at that and saw - how can we make it more restrictive and binding? You know, for the children

Or just buy more ARs now and put them away...for your children.

[JohnnyB 4,325]

Or just buy more ARs now and put them away...for your children.

That would be great except that Jersey won't have a grandfather clause.

[gleninjersey 2,141]

That would be great except that Jersey won't have a grandfather clause.

 

That's nice.

[maintenanceguy 510]

Mass requires all guns, including long guns, to be registered - so they would know what "assault weapons" a person owns.

 

Fortunately NJ does not have a long gun registry - so the state could only look up what someone bought by doing physical audits of 4473's or a dealer's A&D book - a needle in a haystack- NJSP simply doesn't have the resources to do so.

A computer could scan and read hundreds of 4473's an hour and create a register in a couple of days.

 

I will not comply

 

I knew a guy who did not comply with the first ban.  He just stuck his guns quietly in his safe like most people did.  His wife got into an argument with her father who suffers from dementia.  Father called the police.  They guy I know had his safe's opened by the police because the father got an order of protection.  25 guns were sent to Trenton for evaluation, 5 were deemed illegal.  After 3 years waiting for trial, he was offered a plea deal.  No jail time but he can never own a firearm again.

 

Lots and lots of us won't comply.  They'll catch a few.  But what good is complying if we have to hide them away and never bring them out.  

 

I keep thinking of a bumper sticker I saw:  "Our forefathers would be shooting by now" 

[T Bill 649]

That is why NJ contraband in stored out of state.  Just never know when SHTF

[Shane45 807]

A computer could scan and read hundreds of 4473's an hour and create a register in a couple of days.

 

 

 

Hundreds? My scanners, which we have 7 of, can do 200 pages, both sides, a minute

[Polak 3]

HE nailed it - if the Judge or Governor did not have a rifled barrel, it would be a SBS, thus an NFA item.

 

I think it would be an AOW.

 

Shotguns have stocks from the factory and are meant to be fired from the shoulder. The Judge is not that...it should be an AOW otherwise.

[Oakridgefirearms 224]

A computer could scan and read hundreds of 4473's an hour and create a register in a couple of days.

 

 

What computers? the FIU is still doing reports on paper because their computers are so antiquated, The state is broke, the FIU has no money for new technology.

 

Even if they did buy the latest in scanning technology, someone would still need to tear the sheets out of the 4473's and feed them into a scanner - at each FFL in the state (so it would need to be a portable system). Again, they don't have the man power to do it. Then there is also the problem with deciphering what is an "assault weapon" and what is not, some guns may be obvious but most wouldn't be - we don't write SKU numbers or UPC codes in our A&D books, so compliant guns and guns that would become non compliant in the future would often be listed in the same way in an A&D book and on 4473s. I also can't imagine the ATF would be to appreciative of the inevitable mess this would make of a dealers 4473 paperwork - and since they are the primary auditors of FFLs (the NJSP usually relies on the ATF's more though audits) this idea probably wouldn't go over well with the feds. The ATF doesn't concern themselves with what NJ considers or doesn't consider an "assault weapon".

 

Those that are worried about NJSP knocking on your door should a stricter ban happen can take off your tinfoil hats......it's just not going to happen.

[Shane45 807]

I think all the AR owners that got a knock on their door and their AR's taken in Maryland and Virginia during the Beltway Sniper incident would disagree with you. I also think you underestimate how easily and inexpensively it could be digitized. Especially if someone like Hillary gets in and federally funds such things.....

[JC_68Westy 1,024]

HE nailed it - if the Judge or Governor did not have a rifled barrel, it would be a SBS, thus an NFA item.

It looks to me that the rifling is irrelevant.  The bore diameter of not more than .50" is what defines it as a firearm.

 

The term “firearms” is defined in 27 CFR § 447.11 as “A weapon, and all components and parts therefore, not over .50 caliber which will or is designed to or may be readily converted to expel a projectile by the action of an explosive, but shall not include BB and pellet guns, and muzzle loading (black powder) firearms (including any firearm with a matchlock, flintlock, percussion cap, or similar type of ignition system) or firearms covered by Category 1(a) established to have been manufactured in or before 1898.” 

[maintenanceguy 510]

HE nailed it - if the Judge or Governor did not have a rifled barrel, it would be a SBS, thus an NFA item.

 

 

It looks to me that the rifling is irrelevant.  The bore diameter of not more than .50" is what defines it as a firearm.

 

The term “firearms” is defined in 27 CFR § 447.11 as “A weapon, and all components and parts therefore, not over .50 caliber which will or is designed to or may be readily converted to expel a projectile by the action of an explosive, but shall not include BB and pellet guns, and muzzle loading (black powder) firearms (including any firearm with a matchlock, flintlock, percussion cap, or similar type of ignition system) or firearms covered by Category 1(a) established to have been manufactured in or before 1898.” 

 

I don't think there was a question whether the Judge is a firearm.  The question is whether it's a sawed off shotgun.  Federal law defines a shotgun as being "smooth bored".  So the Judge/Governor have rifled barrels. If they didn't they would be shotguns with barrels under 18".   Of course, I don't know what that means about rifled barrels on slug shotguns.  Maybe it's irrelevant since a long gun is a long gun.

[High Exposure 5,664]

Not a question of it being a sawed off shotgun. It is clearly a handgun. The question was regarding if the Judge type handguns fell under the definition of a banned weapon:

2C:39-1

w. "Assault firearm" means:

 

(1) The following firearms:

 

Algimec AGM1 type

 

Any shotgun with a revolving Cylinder such as the "Street Sweeper" or "Striker 12"

Looks like a combo of the rifled barrel and the fact that it is not being shoulder fired allows it to be a legal handgun in NJ.

 

The rifled barrel prevents it from being an AOW.

 

I still don't care as I have less than zero interest in these types of firearms, but at least now I know.

[n4p226r 105]

Not a question of it being a sawed off shotgun. It is clearly a handgun. The question was regarding if the Judge type handguns fell under the definition of a banned weapon:

 

Looks like a combo of the rifled barrel and the fact that it is not being shoulder fired allows it to be a legal handgun in NJ.

 

The rifled barrel prevents it from being an AOW.

 

I still don't care as I have less than zero interest in these types of firearms, but at least now I know.

But that .410 has a nice spread which is useful when aiming for the legs.

[High Exposure 5,664]

That .410 handgun out of a rifled barrel makes a pattern like a donut.

 

I wouldn't choose a .410 shotgun with an 18" barrel for defensive use. Why on earth would I choose a .410 handgun?

 

But that's completely off topic.

[n4p226r 105]

The revolving cylinder rule sucks because I really wanted a Crye six6 for no other reason than they look cool

[Oakridgefirearms 224]

I think all the AR owners that got a knock on their door and their AR's taken in Maryland and Virginia during the Beltway Sniper incident would disagree with you. I also think you underestimate how easily and inexpensively it could be digitized. Especially if someone like Hillary gets in and federally funds such things.....

That only happened because the feds were involved........

 

Could it happen - sure, is it likely to happen - no

 

You're also underestimating NJ craftiness at diverting federal funds designated for something to the general treasury - just ask anyone who works for NJ

[Shane45 807]

Well I certainly agree about diverting.... I just think they wouldn't be able to spend it fast enough on something they want

 

I don't count on unlikely anymore.

[Oakridgefirearms 224]

Well I certainly agree about diverting.... I just think they wouldn't be able to spend it fast enough on something they want

 

I don't count on unlikely anymore.

I can completely understand your concern..........but to put NJ's LEO computer system in perspective I'll tell you this story....

 

About 2 or 3 years ago my wife went to visit a friend in the hospital and parked her car in the parking lot. When she came outside to leave she noticed there was a cop and another guy near her car. Apparently some older woman was driving though the parking lot and crashed (mostly) into the car parked next to my wife's, but also did minor damage to my wife's car. The woman then took off. The guy that was there with the cop witnessed the accident and saw the lady take off and called the police to report it (good to know there are still some decent people around). He knew the car was either a 92 or 93 Nissan (I forget what model it was) blue in color and had the first three digits of the license plate. He was certain of the year and model because he once owned the same car and knew it well.

 

I figured the police should have a reasonably easy time finding this woman with that much information. Well, nothing more was done and the woman was never caught. A little while later I was complaining to a cop buddy of mine that the PD in that town wasn't doing their job - after all how hard could it be to find this woman? Just do a computer search for that model and color NIssan in those years with the first three digits of the license plate. He just laughed, and said "you don't understand, we don't have a computer system that allows us to put all those variables in and it narrows it down to a few vehicles. Instead, we would have to search through every registration that starts with those three digits manually, so, unless someone is dead or severely injured no PD is going spend their resources looking for her". At that point I understood why the PD did nothing, but was shocked that they wouldn't have a program that any mediocre computer programmer could write rather easily.

 

Compare this to private  industry - UPS knows when I create a shipment if the address is a residence or commercial location before I even print out a shipping label. I don't trust the state of NJ much either, I just think their inept computer system and lack of funds is going to severely limit what they can do.

[Cereza 106]

I figured the police should have a reasonably easy time finding this woman with that much information. Well, nothing more was done and the woman was never caught. A little while later I was complaining to a cop buddy of mine that the PD in that town wasn't doing their job - after all how hard could it be to find this woman? Just do a computer search for that model and color NIssan in those years with the first three digits of the license plate. He just laughed, and said "you don't understand, we don't have a computer system that allows us to put all those variables in and it narrows it down to a few vehicles. Instead, we would have to search through every registration that starts with those three digits manually, so, unless someone is dead or severely injured no PD is going spend their resources looking for her". At that point I understood why the PD did nothing, but was shocked that they wouldn't have a program that any mediocre computer programmer could write rather easily.

 

Wouldn't the MVC have the capability to track down the driver using that information?