beachwhistle 28 Posted July 29, 2016 The NY Post carried this story this morning about a man and his family boarded for a safety inspection in the East River. He admitted to having arms on board in a safe and the Coast Guard called in NYPD who promptly arrested him. Is it illegal to have arms on board an boat? It says he had a "revolver, rifle and 2 shotguns". Unless the rifle violated the Safe Act maybe I can't see what the problem was. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
345Sire 158 Posted July 29, 2016 If he was in NJ or NY waters, I wouldn't put it past them to hassle him for it, if he didn't have EVERY BIT OF PAPER KNOWN TO MAN! Of course I'm no lawyer,,,,,,,,,,,, Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
High Exposure 5,635 Posted July 29, 2016 How about a link to the story? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Double Cheese 8 Posted July 29, 2016 I think this is the story to which the OP's referring: http://nypost.com/2016/07/29/east-river-sailor-busted-for-carrying-unlicensed-weapons/ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MartyZ 691 Posted July 29, 2016 he was going from Maryland to Massachusetts, wouldn't he technically be covered by FOPA? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
T Bill 649 Posted July 29, 2016 New York does not care. Their policy is to arrest and let the courts figure it out. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Porthole 15 Posted July 29, 2016 Your boat is an extension of your home. But, if the NYPD was involved, they probably acted under NYC laws. I would never take a firearm through NYC. I see several problems here. First, he admitted to firearms 2nd, he let someone search his boat / safe without a warrant. The USCG has some very broad law enforcement powers, probably more so then any other branch of the government. For that reason I don't understand why they would call in the NYPD. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
leahcim 673 Posted July 29, 2016 The story refers to a "cache of unlicensed weapons." What licenses are required for revolvers, rifles, and shotguns? Especially if they are locked up in a safe. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GRIZ 3,365 Posted July 29, 2016 Several questions are unanswered. Are the guns legal in MD and MA? If not, he's not covered under FOPA. If the guns are legal in both places then FOPA should cover him. A vessel of that size undoubtedly ran more than 3 miles offshore during that trip. He is on the East River which has direct access to International Waters. He can be then subject to a Customs search. Officers, Warrant Officers, and Petty Officers of the USCG are designated Customs Officers by Federal law. No need for USCG to get a warrant for anything and anything they find during the search is admissible. The USCG can make referrals to a state or local agency if state laws are being violated. Need the rest of the story. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GRIZ 3,365 Posted July 29, 2016 scary stuff Why? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Slab Sides 20 Posted July 30, 2016 How the hell do you get pulled down on a boat unless you're doing something stupid? I boat Sandy Hook bay up to NY all the time. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Porthole 15 Posted July 30, 2016 You can be boarded at anytime for a "safety inspection" by the USCG 2 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GRIZ 3,365 Posted July 30, 2016 You can be boarded at anytime for a "safety inspection" by the USCG Once they are on the boat circumstances can develop on what else they do. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GRIZ 3,365 Posted July 30, 2016 Once they are on the boat circumstances can develop on what else they do. I mentioned this in another thread. The USCG can board any US registered vessel anywhere in the world unless it's in the territorial waters of another country. Even then they can do so with permission from that country. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted July 30, 2016 Why? For whatever reason the Constitution and Bill of Rights do not apply to Americans when they are on the water Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
fumanchu182 23 Posted July 30, 2016 I mentioned this in another thread. The USCG can board any US registered vessel anywhere in the world unless it's in the territorial waters of another country. Even then they can do so with permission from that country. Did the googles, found some relevant research materials: http://navwaters.com/2012/11/12/the-fourth-amendment-rights-vs-boarding-power-of-the-united-states-coast-guard/ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
345Sire 158 Posted July 30, 2016 Did the googles, found some relevant research materials: http://navwaters.com/2012/11/12/the-fourth-amendment-rights-vs-boarding-power-of-the-united-states-coast-guard/ Good link. It kinda sucks that we have no protections on boats like this, but the law is the law, and that posting clearly shows there's not much we can do about it. As if boats were all that different from cars in this regard. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Cereza 106 Posted July 30, 2016 Silver lining: if anyone can afford a good lawyer to fight this, a car dealer can. My knowledge of the incident is restricted to the arrest blotter of the NY Post, but one thing that sticks out to me is that the USCG called the NYPD. I do not wish to leap to conclusions without further facts, but right now my opinion of the USCG is less than it was. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GRIZ 3,365 Posted July 30, 2016 For whatever reason the Constitution and Bill of Rights do not apply to Americans when they are on the water Customs and Immigration laws are exemptions to search, seizure, and due process for some time. Any country has the right to control who and what comes into or leaves the country for its protection and protection of its revenue.m Customs laws have been in effect by all countries for hundreds of years. First of all you are aware you and your conveyance are subject to a Customs search when you return to the US from a foreign country. Makes no difference whether it's by boat, car, aircraft or foot. There are also circumstances where you and your vehicle can be searched even if you didn't cross the border or hundreds of miles after you crossed the border. Look up nexus to the border, extended border search, and functional equivalent of the border. The Constitution was ratified in 1788. The Customs Service was founded in 1789 as the sole source of steady income to run the Federal Government. They realized quickly there was a need for an enforcement arm needed and the USCG was founded as the Revenue Marines in 1790. Immigration law is another issue. When you enter the US the onus is on you to prove your nationality. After that if you're not a US Citizen your admissibility is determined. Don't want to be searched by the USCG or Customs? Don't go on the water or anywhere near the border. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GRIZ 3,365 Posted July 30, 2016 Silver lining: if anyone can afford a good lawyer to fight this, a car dealer can. My knowledge of the incident is restricted to the arrest blotter of the NY Post, but one thing that sticks out to me is that the USCG called the NYPD. I do not wish to leap to conclusions without further facts, but right now my opinion of the USCG is less than it was. There are SCOTUS decisions over 40 years old requiring a Federal Officer to take "appropriate action" if a state violation is committed in their presence. The mildest form of "appropriate action" is notifying the appropriate agency. The USCG was doing what they have been required to do for some time. I have done at maybe 100 boardings with the USCG. There's more to this story. If the guy was transporting these firearms IAW FOPA, he will get off. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zuko94 14 Posted July 30, 2016 there has to be more to this story then whats being reported. We launch out of shark river cruise past the CG station and out anywhere from .5 to the 3 mile line. CG is out about and we got approached once. they didn't even come aboard, just a quick "whats up" and off they went. The captain of the boat must have been doing or acting strange. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
High Exposure 5,635 Posted July 30, 2016 There usually is more to these stories. But that never seems to matter. 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Porthole 15 Posted July 31, 2016 there has to be more to this story then whats being reported. We launch out of shark river cruise past the CG station and out anywhere from .5 to the 3 mile line. CG is out about and we got approached once. they didn't even come aboard, just a quick "whats up" and off they went. The captain of the boat must have been doing or acting strange. I've been going out of Shark River and Manasquan since the early 80's, running charters mostly. On average I would say I did 60-80 trips a year. Only once was I ever boarded underway. I have had 2 brief safety inspections though at the USCG dock when we used the dock for medical emergencies. Crappy weather Fathers Day Sunday, 3 of us went out to catch some lobsters. Coming back through Shark River we were the only boat on the river, except for one other, a USCG RIB. I knew what was going to happen and it did. For the most part it was uneventful, although I did have to request the RIB to back away once we got into the currents near my dock - that and the one coastie sticking his hand into the lobster cooler and finding the one un-banded lobster ...... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Cereza 106 Posted August 1, 2016 Small update: "He was a gentleman, and acknowledged that there were firearms on board, and acknowledged that they were his firearms," said {Police spokesman Sgt. Brendan} Ryan, who said police later learned he was the Maryland car dealer. Antwerpen had a carry permit, but it was expired, Ryan said. Article here: http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/maryland/crime/bs-md-jack-antwerpen-arrest-20160729-story.html Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
345Sire 158 Posted August 2, 2016 "He was briefly taken into custody by the New York Police Department Harbor Unit, issued a desk appearance ticket and released." If I'm not mistaken, this is a lot less serious than plenty of other scenarios. Hopefully he can just renew his licensing and perhaps deal with a small fine. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hairless_Ape 76 Posted August 3, 2016 Silver lining: if anyone can afford a good lawyer to fight this, a car dealer can. My knowledge of the incident is restricted to the arrest blotter of the NY Post, but one thing that sticks out to me is that the USCG called the NYPD. I do not wish to leap to conclusions without further facts, but right now my opinion of the USCG is less than it was. You had a high opinion of the puddle pirates prior to this? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GRIZ 3,365 Posted August 3, 2016 You had a high opinion of the puddle pirates prior to this?I guess you don't spend any time on the water. A lot of people are alive because their lives were saved by those "puddle pirates". 3 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lambo2936 297 Posted August 3, 2016 Indeed.The USCG do some great stuff. I remember we were out in the bay in my fathers 28' (dont remember what it was, but i remember it being significantly larger than the lincoln navigator towing it) and the motor overheated and caught fire.. Called it in and within minutes either USCG or one of the police vessels (i dont remember, i was pretty damn young) roped up to us and towed us right onto our trailer. Those little inflatable boat looking things have some serious power... the thing was quite literally a fraction of the size of our boat and pulled us like it was nothing. He was a pretty chill guy too. If you follow the rules, you'll be fine... Granted, ticketing people for stupid violations (forgot my fishing permit) is a bit much, but they are just doing their jobs. If you do your job, theyll do theirs and leave you alone.. 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GRIZ 3,365 Posted August 3, 2016 Search and rescue are the USCG primary mission. They abandon whatever they are doing to respond to a SAR call. 2 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites