NJ Shall-Issue?

[Krdshrk 3,877]

Handguns don't shoot across states. They shoot across rooms or streets at worst. 

 

I just had to

 

[Cereza 106]

There is no place in Jersey that has a higher density of people within handgun range than places I can find in Montana or any of the 47 states. Handguns don't shoot across states. They shoot across rooms or streets at worst. Jersey doesn't have a single place with more people in a room or walking on streets than any of the 47 states that issue CCW and have no problems as a result.

 

You can definitely make that argument for offices, schools, maybe even movie theaters, but "walking on streets"… NJ is ranked No. 1 for population density by square mile (over 1,200 people/mi²) versus Montana hanging out in 48th place (7 people/mi²). But the issue isn't whether or not the population of a given area has higher density, the issue is whether law-abiding citizens remain law-abiding citizens if given the right to carry. The obvious answer to me is OF COURSE they remain law-abiding citizens, but anti-gun supporters live by the equation:

 

more law-abiding people + more legally carried guns = more gun crime  

 

The failure of logic is strong with that group. 

 

 

I just had to

 

 

I can't decide who I    more, Miculek or hickok45. 

[Newtonian 453]

You can definitely make that argument for offices, schools, maybe even movie theaters, but "walking on streets"… NJ is ranked No. 1 for population density by square mile (over 1,200 people/mi²) versus Montana hanging out in 48th place (7 people/mi²). But the issue isn't whether or not the population of a given area has higher density, the issue is whether law-abiding citizens remain law-abiding citizens if given the right to carry. The obvious answer to me is OF COURSE they remain law-abiding citizens, but anti-gun supporters live by the equation:

 

more law-abiding people + more legally carried guns = more gun crime  

 

The failure of logic is strong with that group. 

 

 

 

I can't decide who I    more, Miculek or hickok45. 

You don't want to start an argument about that do you?

 

The population thing is just an excuse, smoke in everyone's eyes. Not worth any more consideration than any other of the stupid reasons.

[mipafox 438]

You can definitely make that argument for offices, schools, maybe even movie theaters, but "walking on streets"… NJ is ranked No. 1 for population density by square mile (over 1,200 people/mi²) versus Montana hanging out in 48th place (7 people/mi²).

It went right over your head. A square mile? People don't typically get shot from a mile away. There is no place in Jersey where a person with a handgun would have more people around him than hundreds of other places around the country, including in all 47 states that issue.

 

Name me one spot in Jersey that has more people per acre than any other place in the country. You can't.

 

Name me one city in Jersey that has a higher population density than any other city in the country. You can't.

 

Population density by overall state area is meaningless in this discussion. Handguns don't shoot across states. Except that people have bought into it for 50 years.

[Newtonian 453]

It went right over your head. A square mile? People don't typically get shot from a mile away. There is no place in Jersey where a person with a handgun would have more people around him than hundreds of other places around the country, including in all 47 states that issue.

 

Name me one spot in Jersey that has more people per acre than any other place in the country. You can't.

 

Name me one city in Jersey that has a higher population density than any other city in the country. You can't.

 

Population density by overall state area is meaningless in this discussion. Handguns don't shoot across states. Except that people have bought into it for 50 years.

 

 

Hoboken, NJ: 43,000

Union City, NJ:  53,014

Topeka, Kansas: 2100

You can divide by 640 to get people/acre.

 

That's not the point though. Pop. density is a red herring. Guns don't fly out of holsters and fire regardless of the population density. 

[Cereza 106]

It went right over your head. A square mile? People don't typically get shot from a mile away. There is no place in Jersey where a person with a handgun would have more people around him than hundreds of other places around the country, including in all 47 states that issue.

 

Name me one spot in Jersey that has more people per acre than any other place in the country. You can't.

 

Name me one city in Jersey that has a higher population density than any other city in the country. You can't.

 

Population density by overall state area is meaningless in this discussion. Handguns don't shoot across states. Except that people have bought into it for 50 years.

 

The math I'm citing comes from this Wikipedia entry: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._states_by_population_density

 

But understand that the density per mile has nothing to do with targets being a mile away. When anti-gun advocates speak about population density, they're talking about the difference between this:

 

(street scene—Helena, Montana)

 

and this:

(street scene—New York City)

 

 

A MADMAN could do more damage in a densely populated area simply by virtue of having more targets.

 

The two settings are different. However my point is that the risk to either type of area from law-abiding, legal gun owners with the right to carry is the same: ZERO. The public faces no greater threat from New Jersey (greatest pop. density) gun owners than they do from Alaska (least pop. density) gun owners   

[Kevin125 4,772]

The math I'm citing comes from this Wikipedia entry: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._states_by_population_density

 

But understand that the density per mile has nothing to do with targets being a mile away. When anti-gun advocates speak about population density, they're talking about the difference between this:

 

(street scene—Helena, Montana)

 

and this:

(street scene—New York City)

 

 

A MADMAN could do more damage in a densely populated area simply by virtue of having more targets.

 

The two settings are different. However my point is that the risk to either type of area from law-abiding, legal gun owners with the right to carry is the same: ZERO. The public faces no greater threat from New Jersey (greatest pop. density) gun owners than they do from Alaska (least pop. density) gun owners   

 

 

A madman could do more damage in Oklahoma City with some fertilizer than any psychotic douchebag with a Glock in that crowd.

[InFamous 311]

A madman could do more damage in Oklahoma City with some fertilizer than any psychotic douchebag with a Glock in that crowd.

 

You ever think about rush hour traffic leaving the city or around 80/280/287 areas. Any well timed terrorists could take out plenty of people by stopping traffic completely and just walking down the road. 

[Newtonian 453]

Maybe Foxy means that there are places in other states that are just as populated as 6th Ave. and 34th St. at lunch hour. Don't know about that either.

 

Population density is a red herring because being armed works both ways. More people to take out kill in a given area? More armed people to cut you down if you try. If 5% of the population is licensed/allowed an asshole is just as vulnerable on 34th St. as in Montana. Criminals are stupid no doubt but they stay away from situations where people are armed.

[Ricky_Bobby 130]

A madman could do more damage in Oklahoma City with some fertilizer than any psychotic douchebag with a Glock in that crowd.

 

Nope - not when Glocks are easier to get than a book from a library.

 

[mikelets456 78]

Hoboken, NJ: 43,000

Union City, NJ:  53,014

Topeka, Kansas: 2100

You can divide by 640 to get people/acre.

 

That's not the point though. Pop. density is a red herring. Guns don't fly out of holsters and fire regardless of the population density. 

I believe he means the population density in Newark,NJ or Miami,FL is no different and the amount of legally armed citizens has nothing to do with "why NJ can't have guns due to population density". Like you said, it's a "red herring" or once again lies of the left to pull on the heart string of a populace.

[Newtonian 453]

I believe he means the population density in Newark,NJ or Miami,FL is no different and the amount of legally armed citizens has nothing to do with "why NJ can't have guns due to population density". Like you said, it's a "red herring" or once again lies of the left to pull on the heart string of a populace.

The population density in my bathroom this morning was greater than almost anywhere on earth. Me, plumber, electrician, electrician's helper, daughter's cat, and 100 trillion fecal bacteria. 

 

NJ is the most densely populated state. No arguing that point and no point arguing that totally irrelevant fact. If every non-felon in NJ carried a gun all the murders robberies and rapes that occur in NJ would take place within the confines of about 50 square blocks. Criminals would be shit scared of any of our cities' business districts during lunch hour because they'd last about 2.47 seconds if they tried anything. Break-ins and home invasions would end very very badly for the perps.

 

Deep down that is why we won't ever have CC in this state that is corrupt beyond redemption. New Jersey depends for its existence on repeat criminals, their welfare/food stamp/social service-eating families, paying the lawyers and jailers and cops who deal with them, the insurance companies and litigation, counselors, doctors, etc. that sort out the aftermath of their misdeeds. 

 

I keep bringing him up but that's why our slimy, cynical, hypocritical legal system gave this fucker 18 months, for actually shooting somebody, while peaceful gun carriers face 5-10 years. 

[Albanian 121]

Regardless we can all agree the 2nd didn't say "shall not be infringed... Unless the population density is... Like... Really high" lol

[Newtonian 453]

Regardless we can all agree the 2nd didn't say "shall not be infringed... Unless the population density is... Like... Really high" lol

Yeah while discussing here how many angels dance on the head of a pin we have those words.

[Newtonian 453]

Just got the report from website activity.

 

Got 150 visits on the nose. Average time spent was 1minute 48 seconds. Overwhelmingly from this site (85). Six from ar15.com, thank you whoever posted there. 16 from something called "m.facebook.com" and a few other similar sites. Don't know what that is but thanks whoever posted there (I'm not on FB). 

 

31 visits "direct," which I take to mean an email or other link. Thanks for all who tried to enlist friends.

 

None of the six or seven I emailed bothered to acknowledge my message. My already small circle of gun friends has shrunk to a dimensionless dot. I can't wait for a couple of them to ask "Oh...so what was that all about?" Fuckers.

 

Time spent on site was low as well. It took me 3-4 minutes to copy/paste all that crap. 1:48 suggests most visitors got to about the 37th word, which was longer than two syllables, and quit. Maybe they had already done it. Just 22 visitors during the last four days.

 

Still, my guess is no more than 500 people bothered. What's the estimate on NJ gun ownership this month? 1.2 billion? Trillion?

 

Next time we should "DEMAND" our rights, as another person insisted. No more Mr. Nice Guy!

[Barische 4]

Newtonian - u sound like smart guy n good with words. Seem have grasp of politics n corruption of NJ.

 

Start an association. Go to trenton to fight for us. U have my word im ur first $50 donator

[Malsua 1,422]

You ever think about rush hour traffic leaving the city or around 80/280/287 areas. Any well timed terrorists could take out plenty of people by stopping traffic completely and just walking down the road. 

 

I realize this is an older post, but that said, read "Day of Wrath" by William Forstchen.  One series of attacks was undertaken by "road crews" who snarled traffic then started executing people trapped in it.

[Mr.Stu 1,919]

I have said this before and it's still just as true as it ever was.

 

Population density has nothing to do with how many people there are in a given area. It is a description of how dense people have to be to swallow this bullshit and vote the same lying bastards back in for more.