Bill putting armed, retired cops in N.J. schools passed by Senate

[SuRrEaLNJ 294]

did anyone see this? if its in another thread i missed it. ive been for the idea, never thought wed see it here. now to arm the rest of us

 

http://www.nj.com/politics/index.ssf/2016/09/bill_putting_armed_retired_cops_in_nj_schools_pass.html

 

RENTON — A bill creating a new class of police officer — and stationing armed, retired cops inside New Jersey schools — passed the state Senate on Thursday after lawmakers adopted an amendment recommended by the governor.

The measure (S2983), which was unanimously approved, establishes "Class Three" special police officers designated to provide security at both public and private schools.

First proposed in the wake of the 2012 attack at Sandy Hook Elementary School in Newtown, Connecticut, the measure passed both houses of the Legislature in June. But it was conditionally vetoed by Gov. Chris Christie, who requested that it come with a requirement that Class Three officers undergo school resource officer training.

 

Read our previous coverage

"Class Three" special police officers would provide security at both public and private schools

 

The designation would be open to retired officers under the age of 65 who left a police department in good standing. They would be required to meet the same firearm qualifications as active-duty police officers.

Class Three officers would work during regular school hours and their jurisdiction would be limited to school grounds. They also would not be eligible for the same benefits as regular police officers.

[T Bill 649]

I have no problem with it,  Our district has a full time officer now on duty, this should cost less and free up officer to do the job he was hired for.  Yes. we need it too!  For all their bitchin' about La Pierre, seems the good guy with a gun was the answer. 

[revenger 473]

This is just one of the reasons us ordinary citizens in NJ will not see a constitutionally allowed firearm carry process.  Most people not familiar with how a NJ law enforcement officers career goes does not realize that the last 15 or so years on the job is spent job prospecting for their post LE job such as  making the connections with vendors and such.     This now gives an entire job only to a certain group of people and excludes all others based on the fact that ordinary citizens in NJ can't get a simple carry permit.  Being that this is a public job the positions should be open to ANY qualified American citizen who is mentally and physically fit to perform the job. These are only security guard jobs, NOT law enforcement, a prospective candidate need not know any title 39 statues to do the job.    how many prior military service members who are not LE will be eligible?

 Crazy politicians are only part of the reason we don't have RTC here,  The LE community knowing that these post career jobs are only available to them will always deny our ability to obtain a license to carry in order to protect these "RPO" positions.      These positions will just be another patronage pit among the many in this state .

[CMJeepster 2,777]

4 years later an no solution yet.  How many of the legislators were around in 2012?  I'm willing to bet upwards of 90%.

[RootSki 5]

Great, another expansion in the size and scope of government.

 

Of course, we'll all need to be taxed more to pay for this.

[Newtonian 453]

Great, another expansion in the size and scope of government.

 

Of course, we'll all need to be taxed more to pay for this.

Those are the one, solitary, onlyiest, and sole reason this was passed.

[Ricky_Bobby 130]

This is just one of the reasons us ordinary citizens in NJ will not see a constitutionally allowed firearm carry process.  Most people not familiar with how a NJ law enforcement officers career goes does not realize that the last 15 or so years on the job is spent job prospecting for their post LE job such as  making the connections with vendors and such.     This now gives an entire job only to a certain group of people and excludes all others based on the fact that ordinary citizens in NJ can't get a simple carry permit.  Being that this is a public job the positions should be open to ANY qualified American citizen who is mentally and physically fit to perform the job. These are only security guard jobs, NOT law enforcement, a prospective candidate need not know any title 39 statues to do the job.    how many prior military service members who are not LE will be eligible?

 Crazy politicians are only part of the reason we don't have RTC here,  The LE community knowing that these post career jobs are only available to them will always deny our ability to obtain a license to carry in order to protect these "RPO" positions.      These positions will just be another patronage pit among the many in this state .

 

This is what I have been saying for years - I support our law enforcement but in this state the majority of police unions, organizations, etc speak for the right to carry firearms to be reserved to law enforcement only, unlike their brethren in 45 or so of the other states - until we have a change in the mindset of law enforcement in this state, where they don't feel like they "earned" their right to carry, and all citizens who are law abiding have that right, nothing will change here.

 

And you're spot on, its just another reason for them not to support it, as it gives them more post retirement job options -

[Cereza 106]

Most kids already feel like school is "jail", I don't think this is going to help matters in that department. I know some areas welcome police presence in schools but in other areas it's a waste of money and resources. Better to train and arm the people that are there day-in, day-out—teachers and administrators—instead of spending more money on cops who don't always have the best rapport with students. 

[JackDaWack 2,895]

If these cops are forced to retire because of age, then why would they be fit enough to serve our schools?

 

It's like retiring and then working for the port authority.

[revenger 473]

"If these cops are forced to retire because of age"  I was thinking the exact same thing.

 

If troopers are forced to retire at age 55 and than how is it possible to be eligible to work in a profession the "might" require the exact response they are forced to retire at 55 for?

 

These jobs are going to be just like all the sheriffs, prosecutors, and other post career jobs that are CREATED just for them.    

[Kevin125 4,772]

Most kids already feel like school is "jail", I don't think this is going to help matters in that department. I know some areas welcome police presence in schools but in other areas it's a waste of money and resources. Better to train and arm the people that are there day-in, day-out—teachers and administrators—instead of spending more money on cops who don't always have the best rapport with students. 

 

The bill will help increase safety in schools.  But not as much as allowing the people there already to be armed. Having that LEO is good, but it also identifies for the bad guys who is armed.  I think it's better that the bad guys believe ANY ADULT in the school could be armed and would be more than happen to end their day.

 

I disagree a little with the "rapport" issue.  I think giving students more contact with LEO's in a non-confrontational setting will build rapport between students and LEO's.  In addition to providing security, these retired LEO's could periodically give some in-class talks to the students.

 

I also don't believe that all LEO's are against citizens carrying.  I really have no idea how many feel one way or another but I'd venture a guess it might be close to 50/50.

[Cereza 106]

The bill will help increase safety in schools.  But not as much as allowing the people there already to be armed. Having that LEO is good, but it also identifies for the bad guys who is armed.  I think it's better that the bad guys believe ANY ADULT in the school could be armed and would be more than happen to end their day.

 

I disagree a little with the "rapport" issue.  I think giving students more contact with LEO's in a non-confrontational setting will build rapport between students and LEO's.  In addition to providing security, these retired LEO's could periodically give some in-class talks to the students.

 

I also don't believe that all LEO's are against citizens carrying.  I really have no idea how many feel one way or another but I'd venture a guess it might be close to 50/50.

 

Based on my conversation with teachers (I know many from both NYC and NJ) and the one published study that I've read, the presence of LEO in schools tends to criminalize behavioral issues that really ought to be handled internally. I don't mean violent attacks which should be addressed by law enforcement; I'm talking about situations where kids answered back, wouldn't comply with instructions (for example, "take out your textbook") or got into a minor scuffle with another student and found themselves handcuffed and/or placed in the back of a police cruiser. They're kids, they're still learning what's acceptable, what's not, and hell yeah they're testing boundaries. It's natural. But the presence of LEO in schools makes it far more likely that they're going to leave school with a criminal record and that's guaranteed to negatively affect their future.

 

With proper training and education (something similar to what is required of teachers) I believe this stumbling block could be overcome, and LEOs could have a potentially positive effect, most of all with communities that historically lack trust in the police, but naturally the brainiacs in the legislature didn't bother to address the issue of training. They're essentially putting LEOs in a situation that they're not really qualified for and figuring that the good PR will outweigh any outcome, because nothing could possibly go wrong…

 

But as pointed out, having officers in a school—even in plain clothes they're easy to pick out—essentially creates a "start here" target for any maniac with malicious intentions. Better, as you said, for an attacker to believe that every adult they come into contact with can fire back. There's no better deterrent in my mind.

[Ricky_Bobby 130]

The bill will help increase safety in schools.  But not as much as allowing the people there already to be armed. Having that LEO is good, but it also identifies for the bad guys who is armed.  I think it's better that the bad guys believe ANY ADULT in the school could be armed and would be more than happen to end their day.

 

I disagree a little with the "rapport" issue.  I think giving students more contact with LEO's in a non-confrontational setting will build rapport between students and LEO's.  In addition to providing security, these retired LEO's could periodically give some in-class talks to the students.

 

I also don't believe that all LEO's are against citizens carrying.  I really have no idea how many feel one way or another but I'd venture a guess it might be close to 50/50.

 

In bold absolutely - if the commoners were allowed to carry in this state it might actually be a reality - plenty of other school districts doing it in non-communist states.

[Cereza 106]

Expect the debate over police in schools to intensify after this (in Nevada):

 

http://www.rgj.com/story/news/crime/2016/12/07/police-scanner-indicates-officer-involved-shooting-hug-high/95101402/

 

For however long YT leaves it up, actual footage from the incident--warning, it's disturbing:

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bLbdQs0R3T8

 

 

[varna 9]

Expect the debate over police in schools to intensify after this (in Nevada):

 

 

 

For however long YT leaves it up, actual footage from the incident--warning, it's disturbing

 

 

 

 

What's so disturbing about it?

[varna 9]

I also don't believe that all LEO's are against citizens carrying.  I really have no idea how many feel one way or another but I'd venture a guess it might be close to 50/50.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I think it's more like 90/10.  I am friends with about 8 LEO active and retired. Local to State Police, over half are family. Only 1 has the attitude that he couldn't care either way but says "good luck that ever happening"  The rest....... well they are "specially" trained and no civilian could ever be as responsible as them. It is their mindset. Hell, I was talking with a fresh out of the academy State Trooper who argued with me that it was absolutely, positively, illegal for anyone in NJ to obtain a CC permit that is not or was not an LEO.    I told him he needs to go back to the academy. ( he is a good friend so I'm not stupid saying that to him)  

[Newtonian 453]

This is just one of the reasons us ordinary citizens in NJ will not see a constitutionally allowed firearm carry process.  Most people not familiar with how a NJ law enforcement officers career goes does not realize that the last 15 or so years on the job is spent job prospecting for their post LE job such as  making the connections with vendors and such.     This now gives an entire job only to a certain group of people and excludes all others based on the fact that ordinary citizens in NJ can't get a simple carry permit.  Being that this is a public job the positions should be open to ANY qualified American citizen who is mentally and physically fit to perform the job. These are only security guard jobs, NOT law enforcement, a prospective candidate need not know any title 39 statues to do the job.    how many prior military service members who are not LE will be eligible?

 Crazy politicians are only part of the reason we don't have RTC here,  The LE community knowing that these post career jobs are only available to them will always deny our ability to obtain a license to carry in order to protect these "RPO" positions.      These positions will just be another patronage pit among the many in this state .

100% agree. You should post more often. 

[Newtonian 453]

Expect the debate over police in schools to intensify after this (in Nevada):

 

http://www.rgj.com/story/news/crime/2016/12/07/police-scanner-indicates-officer-involved-shooting-hug-high/95101402/

 

For however long YT leaves it up, actual footage from the incident--warning, it's disturbing:

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bLbdQs0R3T8

Observations:

 

1. This is exactly what an armed civilian or officer is supposed to do. The bastard got what was coming to him. 

2. Those kids have no f-ing concept. Look at them milling around before and after the shooting, approaching the perp. They need a good kick in the ass.

3. Usual over-reaction, closing the place down, having 5 different enforcement agencies, including the sex crimes unit.

4. And that includes the "GRAPHIC CONTENT" warnings. We're all pussies now.

[mipafox 438]

Just give them the money and let them stay home. That's all this is about.

[Cereza 106]

What's so disturbing about it?

 

Seeing people shot (outside of fictional settings like movies and television) is disturbing to me, your empathy may vary. 

 

 

Observations:

 

1. This is exactly what an armed civilian or officer is supposed to do. The bastard got what was coming to him. 

2. Those kids have no f-ing concept. Look at them milling around before and after the shooting, approaching the perp. They need a good kick in the ass.

3. Usual over-reaction, closing the place down, having 5 different enforcement agencies, including the sex crimes unit.

4. And that includes the "GRAPHIC CONTENT" warnings. We're all pussies now.

 

1. I'm awaiting further investigation, but while I believe the campus officer followed his training (i.e. to shoot), I am concerned that from the angle of the video (other videos may prove or disprove this) there appeared to be children near and behind the attacker.

 

2. Most of those kids don't have a clue and you can blame the lockdown training; they're told to stay quiet and in place like baby deer. I disagree with this vehemently, but I'm not in charge of school policy. However, with regards to the child in the gray hoodie seen approaching the attacker and then gesticulating at the campus officer, from what I'm reading online (so take it with a grain of salt) the attacker was his friend. He may have been trying to help.

 

3. I suspect they're following some type of protocol that for legal reasons says, "BRING ME EVERYONE!"  

 

 

4. I don't have an issue with warnings. Warnings don't stop me from looking at something if I want to, but they're good to have if viewing things in mixed company.  

[Zeke 5,504]

This is just one of the reasons us ordinary citizens in NJ will not see a constitutionally allowed firearm carry process. Most people not familiar with how a NJ law enforcement officers career goes does not realize that the last 15 or so years on the job is spent job prospecting for their post LE job such as making the connections with vendors and such. This now gives an entire job only to a certain group of people and excludes all others based on the fact that ordinary citizens in NJ can't get a simple carry permit. Being that this is a public job the positions should be open to ANY qualified American citizen who is mentally and physically fit to perform the job. These are only security guard jobs, NOT law enforcement, a prospective candidate need not know any title 39 statues to do the job. how many prior military service members who are not LE will be eligible?

Crazy politicians are only part of the reason we don't have RTC here, The LE community knowing that these post career jobs are only available to them will always deny our ability to obtain a license to carry in order to protect these "RPO" positions. These positions will just be another patronage pit among the many in this state .

Valid point on the machinations. But I'm still for it.

Your point is a totally different animal. It has to deal with lobbying and unions and the blue line and etc.

 

Protect our kids! And give teachers the right to carry also!

We are war with ideology, and with mental illness

[jackandjill 683]

I cannot wait to see this "public education" system dismantled in favor of more private setting that provides Parents choice. 

[mipafox 438]

I also don't believe that all LEO's are against citizens carrying. I really have no idea how many feel one way or another but I'd venture a guess it might be close to 50/50.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I think it's more like 90/10. I am friends with about 8 LEO active and retired. Local to State Police, over half are family. Only 1 has the attitude that he couldn't care either way but says "good luck that ever happening" The rest....... well they are "specially" trained and no civilian could ever be as responsible as them. It is their mindset. Hell, I was talking with a fresh out of the academy State Trooper who argued with me that it was absolutely, positively, illegal for anyone in NJ to obtain a CC permit that is not or was not an LEO. I told him he needs to go back to the academy. ( he is a good friend so I'm not stupid saying that to him)

Maybe in Jersey, but not in America:

 

http://police-praetorian.netdna-ssl.com/p1_gunsurveysummary_2013.pdf

[Zeke 5,504]

Maybe in Jersey, but not in America:

 

http://police-praetorian.netdna-ssl.com/p1_gunsurveysummary_2013.pdf

19 through 24 ish

 

Good link Mipa, I'm keeping it.

[varna 9]

Maybe in Jersey, but not in America:

 

http://police-praetorian.netdna-ssl.com/p1_gunsurveysummary_2013.pdf

The thread was about NJ, I live in NJ and commented on NJ........... come on Mipa pay attention

[OfcrFek 21]

I think it's more like 90/10.  I am friends with about 8 LEO active and retired. Local to State Police, over half are family. Only 1 has the attitude that he couldn't care either way but says "good luck that ever happening"  The rest....... well they are "specially" trained and no civilian could ever be as responsible as them. It is their mindset. Hell, I was talking with a fresh out of the academy State Trooper who argued with me that it was absolutely, positively, illegal for anyone in NJ to obtain a CC permit that is not or was not an LEO.    I told him he needs to go back to the academy. ( he is a good friend so I'm not stupid saying that to him)  

 

Where I work is completely opposite. If I had to put a number on it, at least 70-80% of the officers I work with are for civilian CCW in this state. The majority of the time I noticed, if the officer is into firearms outside of work, they are more prone to believing civilians should be able to carry.

[myhatinthering 462]

have to agree, the mentality and knowledge of your average cop is horrendous much less does nothing to help citizens.  The view from above they possess is part of the problem and a big reason the profession has lost so much respect and rightfully so

[myhatinthering 462]

absolute worst possible decision would be to put cops in schools, much less retired ones.