686 Cylinder Cut For Moonclips

[MK25 V 3]

New to the revolvers and like to just starting off by saying "WOW she's Beautiful!"

 

I'm thinking of loading with moonclips and the cylinder would have to get cut to accept them to fit in.

 

Question

If I get someone to cut the cylinder and want to just load with a different speed loader or without the moonclips will the pistol still operate normally? Or will there be a bigger gap between the firing pin and the primer to keep from going off.

 

Picked up a 686 plus at a good price and just tested out some reloading loads after breaking her in and she performed great.

[fatty 241]

Itll operate just as normal but im pretty sure the warranty will be voided.

[MK25 V 3]

Itll operate just as normal but im pretty sure the warranty will be voided.

Thanks for the reply. I will take that into consideration for the warranty issue.

[Pizza Bob 1,488]

A couple words about your intentions. I believe in moon clips and have seven revolvers that use them - however, full length .357 Mag or even .38 Spl in moon clips is usually not a great match.

 

If speed is your desire, the brass to moon clip fit is critical. The longer the cartridge, the harder it is to stuff the loaded clip into those 7 sub-.40 caliber holes - thus the need for a rigid fit in the moon clip. That critical fit is harder with rimmed cartridges because there is no SAAMI spec for the groove (it is not an extractor groove - some cases have no groove) at the base of the case. Critical fit is found by trial & error - the clip manufacturer may help some, but ultimately it is trial and error - and an expensive trial & error at that. There is only one common manufacturer of 7-round clips that I know of (TK Custom) and their clips run $3.99 to $6.50 per clip, in lots of ten.

 

As has already been answered, machining for moon clips does NOT preclude using speed loaders or loading singly. There is a ridge left around the circumference of the rear of the cylinder on which loose rounds will headspace.

 

I'd point you in the direction of speed loaders, but again there aren't many good ones out there for the 7-shot L-frame. HKS speed loaders hold the rounds securely but are slow because it takes two motions to use them (insert / twist knob) and you are relying on gravity to actually get the round in the chamber. 5-star loaders are billet aluminum works of art, but essentially are just HKS loaders whose knob turns in the opposite direction and are twice as expensive. Probably the best for speed are the Speed Beez, but the only thing that retains the cartridges is a coil spring around the outside of the body of the loader. Individual "fingers" push the cartridges past the spring into the chamber - less secure, but a little better than relying purely on gravity for loading.

 

What do you intend to do with your revolver? If you were thinking of competing then be aware that IDPA is strictly a six-round game. You can use your 7-shooter, but you are only allowed to load 6 rounds - meaning you have to properly index the cylinder with every reload. If you go the moon clip route then your ammo must make major PF. Speed loaders you are OK with minor PF.

 

You can load all seven chambers in USPSA as long as your ammo is minor PF, but you are giving up a round to the 8-shot N-frames that really own the revolver division.

 

If just range use - save your money on the moon clip conversion and just use HKS loaders as a matter of convenience.

 

One last word about warranty - S&W cannot deny you warranty for machining the cylinder for moon clips unless the problem you are having is directly caused by that modification - there is no blanket denial for a modification, it has to relate to the malfunction.

 

HTH

 

Adios,

 

Pizza Bob

[MK25 V 3]

A couple words about your intentions. I believe in moon clips and have seven revolvers that use them - however, full length .357 Mag or even .38 Spl in moon clips is usually not a great match.

 

If speed is your desire, the brass to moon clip fit is critical. The longer the cartridge, the harder it is to stuff the loaded clip into those 7 sub-.40 caliber holes - thus the need for a rigid fit in the moon clip. That critical fit is harder with rimmed cartridges because there is no SAAMI spec for the groove (it is not an extractor groove - some cases have no groove) at the base of the case. Critical fit is found by trial & error - the clip manufacturer may help some, but ultimately it is trial and error - and an expensive trial & error at that. There is only one common manufacturer of 7-round clips that I know of (TK Custom) and their clips run $3.99 to $6.50 per clip, in lots of ten.

 

As has already been answered, machining for moon clips does NOT preclude using speed loaders or loading singly. There is a ridge left around the circumference of the rear of the cylinder on which loose rounds will headspace.

 

I'd point you in the direction of speed loaders, but again there aren't many good ones out there for the 7-shot L-frame. HKS speed loaders hold the rounds securely but are slow because it takes two motions to use them (insert / twist knob) and you are relying on gravity to actually get the round in the chamber. 5-star loaders are billet aluminum works of art, but essentially are just HKS loaders whose knob turns in the opposite direction and are twice as expensive. Probably the best for speed are the Speed Beez, but the only thing that retains the cartridges is a coil spring around the outside of the body of the loader. Individual "fingers" push the cartridges past the spring into the chamber - less secure, but a little better than relying purely on gravity for loading.

 

What do you intend to do with your revolver? If you were thinking of competing then be aware that IDPA is strictly a six-round game. You can use your 7-shooter, but you are only allowed to load 6 rounds - meaning you have to properly index the cylinder with every reload. If you go the moon clip route then your ammo must make major PF. Speed loaders you are OK with minor PF.

 

You can load all seven chambers in USPSA as long as your ammo is minor PF, but you are giving up a round to the 8-shot N-frames that really own the revolver division.

 

If just range use - save your money on the moon clip conversion and just use HKS loaders as a matter of convenience.

 

One last word about warranty - S&W cannot deny you warranty for machining the cylinder for moon clips unless the problem you are having is directly caused by that modification - there is no blanket denial for a modification, it has to relate to the malfunction.

 

HTH

 

Adios,

 

Pizza Bob

Thanks Pizza Bob for the insight.

I meant to talk to you yesterday about some options and kept getting sidetracked with building and breaking down the area.

 

I think I am going to just stick to the speed loaders for now and use it for the IDPA matches.

I been practicing with the 5 Star loaders and it's been working pretty good dropping out of the loaders. I bought a few things from 5 Star and they look almost too nice to use. Loaders are smooth and I am figuring out the proper placement of the hands and fingers when loading for 6 rounds.

Stayed a bit after the match and test fired/break in the new pistol and there is no comparison to the look and feel to any slide lock pistols that I have shot in the past, glad I went this route. In the future I will probably get a 8 round .45 acp for USPSA.

 

Are there any tip you can give proper care for the pistol?

Like:

Is it ok to dry fire?

 

Is there any damage that can happen when flipping the cylinder open one handed?

 

Is it ok to wrist flip the chamber closed after loading?

 

Pushing down hard on the cartridge release is ok?

 

Silly question I know, just thought I ask.

[Krdshrk 3,877]

FYI - in IDPA you're only allowed to load to 6 even if it's a 7-shot revolver.

[Mr.Stu 1,916]

FYI - in IDPA you're only allowed to load to 6 even if it's a 7-shot revolver.

This is why I specifically didn't want a 686+.

[Pizza Bob 1,488]

In the future I will probably get a 8 round .45 acp for USPSA.

.45 ACP only comes in a 6 round configuration (Model 625 - either a JM or a PC) and is absolutely the best gun to use with moon clips. Much less painful to learn about them than any of the minor calibers. If you want an 8-round revolver for USPSA, the way to go is 9 mm (Model 929).

 

Are there any tip you can give proper care for the pistol?

I clean the chambers and the barrel after each match and wipe down any residue on the exterior. Blued guns I use Ren Wax and polished SS I use Simichrome. Revos very seldom need lubrication and when they do, just a drop or two along side the trigger and hammer orient the gun so it migrates to the pivot points. If the sideplate has to come off for any reason, blast the inside with Gun Scrubber or Brake Kleen and then rel-ube all pivot points and the rebound slide.

Like:

Is it ok to dry fire?

Dry fire to your heart's content. Less chance of breaking a firing pin (frame mounted) if you use snap caps.

 

Is there any damage that can happen when flipping the cylinder open one handed?

NEVER flip open or closed the cylinder. That is abuse pure and simple and will damage the gun (bent yoke).

 

Is it ok to wrist flip the chamber closed after loading?

See answer to above question

 

Pushing down hard on the cartridge release  ejector rod is ok?

Really shouldn't need to. Some people use a quick rap with the palm of their hand, but I've found that a finger or thumb on the ejector rod sufficient in most cases. If cases are sticking find the cause and remedy it - don't just keep beating on the ejector rod - they have been known to bend. In .357's that primarily are shot with .38's, make sure that you clean the chambers well.

 

Silly question I know, just thought I ask.

Better to ask.

[Pizza Bob 1,488]

Joe:

 

One last word about the 686 and competition. If the bug bites you really hard - it would be best to sell the 7-shot and buy a 6-shot. One thing to consider is that you can convert the seven to a six, but it will require a new cylinder and hand and a good gunsmith to do it. May be cheaper just to sell and buy.

 

Adios,

 

Pizza Bob

[alec.mc 180]

http://tkcustom.com/ is who you want to do the conversion if you want to do it. You'll still be able to use speedloaders an/or moonclips.

 

Bob always gives sound advice, The moonclip to brass marriage is extremely important. You'll want to stick with the headstamp that is meant for that moonclip for best results.

 

7 shot is dumb , it really has no home in competitions if that is your intention. Buy a 6 shooter ( or get a 6 shot 686 cylinder installed )

[MK25 V 3]

http://tkcustom.com/ is who you want to do the conversion if you want to do it. You'll still be able to use speedloaders an/or moonclips.

 

Bob always gives sound advice, The moonclip to brass marriage is extremely important. You'll want to stick with the headstamp that is meant for that moonclip for best results.

 

7 shot is dumb , it really has no home in competitions if that is your intention. Buy a 6 shooter ( or get a 6 shot 686 cylinder installed )

Thanks Alec,

 

That site looks good.

I got it for home defense and range use. Like to use it for Idpa only a few times a year.

[MK25 V 3]

Joe:

 

One last word about the 686 and competition. If the bug bites you really hard - it would be best to sell the 7-shot and buy a 6-shot. One thing to consider is that you can convert the seven to a six, but it will require a new cylinder and hand and a good gunsmith to do it. May be cheaper just to sell and buy.

 

Adios,

 

Pizza Bob

Thanks Bob, for the wealth of information on revolvers and I think I will keep this around for a little while and just stick with a little trigger work to make it a little smoother. I'll get another in the future and make that one more towards competition. Not need to sell when I can add to the collection.