NJ Stun Gun law ruled Unconstitutional

[Krdshrk 3,877]

So does this mean we can get tasers now?

 

http://www.evannappen.com/nj-ag-stun-gun-ban-is-unconstitutional.html

 

 

 

In a brief dated November 7, 2016, submitted in the Appellate case of State v. Lambert, the Office of the Attorney General concedes that New Jersey’s Stun Gun Ban is unconstitutional, stating:

"[T]he State agrees with defendant that New Jersey’s stun-gun statute, N.J.S.A. 2C:39-3h, is unconstitutional in light of Caetano v. Massachusetts, 136 S.Ct. 1027 (2016), and defendant’s conviction under that statute should be vacated in the interests of justice." (See attached.)

This position was in response to a brief filed on behalf of Appellant Lambert by Joshua Sanders, Esq., of the New Jersey Office of the Public Defender Appellate Division. (See attached.)

In this case, Lambert was charged in 2009 with possession of a stun gun in violation of N.J.S. 2C:39-3h, as well as other non-weapons charges.  

Although the appellant did not raise this constitutional issue in his original 2015 plea, the Attorney General confirms in its brief:


"[T]he State agrees with defendant’s reading of United States Supreme Court precedent. To briefly recap Second-Amendment jurisprudence, the United States Supreme Court held that “the Second Amendment extends, prima facie, to all instruments that constitute bearable arms, even those that were not in existence at the time of the founding,” District of Columbia v. Heller, 554 U.S. 570, 582 (2008), and that this “Second Amendment right is fully applicable to the States[.]” McDonald v. Chicago, 561 U.S. 742, 750 (2010)."

The AG further recognizes: 


"The State is unaware of any legitimate basis to distinguish New Jersey’s stun-gun statute from Massachusetts’ statute. The New Jersey stun-gun statute, like the Massachusetts statute, criminalizes mere possession of a stun gun….. Since both statutes criminalize mere possession of a stun gun, for the reasons outlined in Caetano, New Jersey’s stun-gun statute, like Massachusetts’s statute, violates the Second Amendment."

 

 

[High Exposure 5,664]

As one of only a handful of Taser instructors in the State, I am watching this with interest...

[Donobieus 15]

Is there a difference between a stun gun and a taser?  I hate to confess my ignorance but since everything is illegal here I never really thought about it.....

[High Exposure 5,664]

Taser is a brand name not a type of device. The type of device is classified as a Conducted Electrical Device or CED in NJ. Taser classifies it as a Conducted Electrical Weapon or CEW.

 

By statute, NJ considers any CED/CEW a Stun Gun whether it can induce Neuro Muscular Incapacitation (NMI) - the ability to lock the muscles up so that the target can not overcome - or not.

 

Technically, a stun gun does not fire darts and works only on pain compliance. It does not have the ability to produce NMI. A Taser has the ability to do both.

 

A lot of factors have to line up in order for a Taser to get a desired effect. It's not quite as "point and shoot" as Taser Inc would have you believe.

[Krdshrk 3,877]

Stun gun = those boxes/sticks you see the vendors hold up and go SPAK SPAK SPAK with the sparks at gun shows.

 

Taser = shoots prongs with wires to zap someone.....

 

I would rather have a taser and would definitely carry it....

[NJGF 375]

Very very promising. So NJ goes into the 21st century screaming and kicking. The NJ legislature is not going to like this. Unfortunately this is only the AG not the courts.

[Malsua 1,422]

I'd definitely carry one.   Since the statement is from the AG...does that mean there is no more enforcement?

[DirtyDigz 1,812]

Going to Vegas next week.  I may pick up a few to bring back in checked luggage.

[carl_g 568]

The tasers are kind of big aren't they? And what happens if you miss the first shot? I always wondered that.. does it then become a club? Here is a picture of the "ultra compact model:

 

 

[Purple Patrick 638]

In for more info

 

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[Zeke 5,504]

I'll give the ag office a call today for clarification on

2C:39-3h and report back.

[DirtyDigz 1,812]

And check this out from the Party of 6 lawyer regarding their case challenging the stun gun ban (my emphasis added):

 

http://www.sdslaw.us/single-post/2016/11/11/In-a-baffling-answer-filed-by-New-Jersey-in-the-Taser-case

 

 

November 11, 2016

In a baffling answer filed by New Jersey in the Taser case...

New Jersey denies that its stun gun/taser law is unconstitutional, and that somehow, New Jersey civil procedure rules apply in federal court (where we have the, ahem, federal rules of civil procedure).  Let's just skip to the point.  New Jersey, in a filing in a criminal case three days prior to answering in the NJ2AS/Mark Cheeseman case, already admitted its stun gun ban is unconstitutional.

New Jersey's answer to the NJ2AS/Mark Cheeseman complaint is here.

New Jersey conceding its stun gun ban is unconstitutional and violative of the Second Amendment in the criminal case is here.

And yes, we will be bringing this to the Court's attention today.

[djw2033 28]

so i guess i am not following... they are fighting back against the AG?

 

is this real life?

[Ricky_Bobby 130]

Subbed - maybe we can get gun rights back by way of tasers LOL - personally I would feel better if my wife could carry a taser when she is out alone without me

[djw2033 28]

Subbed - maybe we can get gun rights back by way of tasers LOL - personally I would feel better if my wife could carry a taser when she is out alone without me

 

when would this take effect? immediately or does it have to pass through the maze of people?

[Zeke 5,504]

I'll give the ag office a call today for clarification on

2C:39-3h and report back.

Not answering the phone.

I sent an email.

[PK90 3,570]

 

 

Taser is a brand name not a type of device....

Like Taylor Ham is to Pork Roll

 

Sent from an undisclosed location via Tapatalk.

[DirtyDigz 1,812]

when would this take effect? immediately or does it have to pass through the maze of people?

 

My take:

 

The law is on the books, but the top NJ law enforcement officer (the attorney general) has filed a court document conceding that it is unconstitutional.

 

Until the law is repealed, or until the NJ AG issues a directive to LEO's not to enforce it, you'd likely still get arrested if you are found in possession of a stun gun.

 

Somewhere between your arrest, the prosecutor deciding to charge you, and your arraignment/court hearing/trial your lawyer would bring up the NJ AG's filing in the other case and charges would either not be filed, or the prosecutor would drop the case.

 

The state of NJ could go several ways here - they could just repeal the law and just not have any law on stun guns, or they could draft new laws that allow stun gun possession, but put similar restrictions on them as, say, handguns (can only possess in certain exempted places/situations).

[djw2033 28]

 

 

Until the law is repealed, or until the NJ AG issues a directive to LEO's not to enforce it, you'd likely still get arrested if you are found in possession of a stun gun.

 

 

 whats the likelihood of something like that?

[DirtyDigz 1,812]

 whats the likelihood of something like that?

 

I'd say high - "on the street" policemen probably will have no knowledge of what's going on unless the AG issues a directive, so they'll go by the law they know: possession is illegal, arrest.

[Purple Patrick 638]

Taser is a brand name not a type of device. The type of device is classified as a Conducted Electrical Device or CED in NJ. Taser classifies it as a Conducted Electrical Weapon or CEW.

 

Now, NJ considers any CED/CEW a Stun Gun whether it can induce Neuro Muscular Incapacitation (NMI) - the ability to lock the muscles up so that the target can not overcome or not.

 

Technically, a stun gun does not fire darts and works only on pain compliance. It does not have the ability to produce NMI. A Taser has the ability to do both.

Any opinions on this taser? Seems reasonably priced,ccw friendly, and has a back up stun feature.

 

https://loadoutroom.com/19758/taser-pulse-review-part-1/

 

I'm trying to do some research if things go our way

 

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[Zeke 5,504]

My take:

 

The law is on the books, but the top NJ law enforcement officer (the attorney general) has filed a court document conceding that it is unconstitutional.

 

Until the law is repealed, or until the NJ AG issues a directive to LEO's not to enforce it, you'd likely still get arrested if you are found in possession of a stun gun.

 

Somewhere between your arrest, the prosecutor deciding to charge you, and your arraignment/court hearing/trial your lawyer would bring up the NJ AG's filing in the other case and charges would either not be filed, or the prosecutor would drop the case.

 

The state of NJ could go several ways here - they could just repeal the law and just not have any law on stun guns, or they could draft new laws that allow stun gun possession, but put similar restrictions on them as, say, handguns (can only possess in certain exempted places/situations).

I agree with your assessment.

[djw2033 28]

I'd say high - "on the street" policemen probably will have no knowledge of what's going on unless the AG issues a directive, so they'll go by the law they know: possession is illegal, arrest.

i meant as far as the AG issuing a directive,  whats the likelihood of something like that?

[Zeke 5,504]

i meant as far as the AG issuing a directive, whats the likelihood of something like that?

If a remember correctly with the Mass case the law was void at moment of ruling. That was Supreme Court though.

[bobblackrifle 28]

Since the AG agrees the 2A includes weapons not in existence when the 2A was written, why do we have an AWB in NJ? Should the AWB in NJ go away now?

[Krdshrk 3,877]

So - not legal YET...  Just ruled Unconstitutional.

 

[M1152 713]

Not answering the phone.

I sent an email.

It's Veteran's Day, state offices are closed...

[Zeke 5,504]

Son of bitch! My bad. I forgot.

[High Exposure 5,664]

Any opinions on this taser? Seems reasonably priced,ccw friendly, and has a back up stun feature.

 

https://loadoutroom.com/19758/taser-pulse-review-part-1/

 

I'm trying to do some research if things go our way

 

this signature exceeds the 15 character capacity count

Miata,

 

I have no idea if that device is any good. Taser makes good gear, but that thing is new. Additionally, right now the only devices authorized by the State of NJ for LEO use are the Taser X26 and the Taser X2. I don't know if any agency in the state that carries the X26.

 

Also, keep in mind that the civilian models are generally not as powerful voltage wise, but they run for a 30 second discharge, not a 5 second ride like LEO devices. If you think about it, and the differences between why a citizen would use a Taser vs a LEO, it makes sense. 30 seconds give a citizen a chance to run away to a place of safety after an unplanned depoliynent in self defense. 5 seconds gives LEOs a chance to take control of a potentially dangerous situation after a planned deployment with a rehearsed and trained response.

 

Another thing to keep in mind. A Taser is not a panacea for self defense. A lot can go wrong with a Taser deployment and it is not a substitute for deadly force - if that's what is warranted. A taser should be carried in addition to a handgun, not in place of.

[Purple Patrick 638]

Miata,

 

I have no idea if that device is any good. Taser makes good gear, but that thing is new. Additionally, right now the only devices authorized by the State of NJ for LEO use are the Taser X26 and the Taser X2. I don't know if any agency in the state that carries the X26.

 

Also, keep in mind that the civilian models are generally not as powerful voltage wise, but they run for a 30 second discharge, not a 5 second ride like LEO devices. If you think about it, and the differences between why a citizen would use a Taser vs a LEO, it makes sense. 30 seconds give a citizen a chance to run away to a place of safety after an unplanned depoliynent in self defense. 5 seconds gives LEOs a chance to take control of a potentially dangerous situation after a planned deployment with a rehearsed and trained response.

 

Another thing to keep in mind. A Taser is not a panacea for self defense. A lot can go wrong with a Taser deployment and it is not a substitute for deadly force - if that's what is warranted. A taser should be carried in addition to a handgun, not in place of.

Well us civilians can't carry a gun anyway. It would supplement my mace and (last resort)emerson edc

 

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