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NJ Stun Gun law ruled Unconstitutional

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10 minutes ago, DirtyDigz said:

So the NJSP is out with *proposed* (I say again - PROPOSED - these are *NOT* law yet) stun gun regulations:

http://www.njsp.org/news/pdf/pr/20170821_2765a.pdf

My take - the only proposed regulation is that you have to be 18 or older to possess one.

Nothing about exempted locations/transportaiton, purchase permit, registration, etc.  Just have to be 18 to possess, otherwise subject to confiscation.

The Democrat legislators aren't going to like this...

SCOTUS ruled on this.

they were discussing this yesterday on 101.5 . Thanks for the link DD!

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15 minutes ago, DirtyDigz said:

So the NJSP is out with *proposed* (I say again - PROPOSED - these are *NOT* law yet) stun gun regulations:

http://www.njsp.org/news/pdf/pr/20170821_2765a.pdf

My take - the only proposed regulation is that you have to be 18 or older to possess one.

Nothing about exempted locations/transportaiton, purchase permit, registration, etc.  Just have to be 18 to possess, otherwise subject to confiscation.

The Democrat legislators aren't going to like this...

Why not ? Unless I missed, NJSP is not changing any rules / limitations / exemptions to the carry / possession manner or location or anything else. 

Based on court ruling, they are simply removing the earlier OUTRIGHT BAN on sale / possession of stun guns ( N.J.S.A. 2C:39-3.h ).  Everything else remains as is. 

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2 hours ago, jackandjill said:

Why not ? Unless I missed, NJSP is not changing any rules / limitations / exemptions to the carry / possession manner or location or anything else. 

Based on court ruling, they are simply removing the earlier OUTRIGHT BAN on sale / possession of stun guns ( N.J.S.A. 2C:39-3.h ).  Everything else remains as is. 

The legislature does not have to accept the NJSP's proposed rules as they are currently.  They can change them/propose additional legislation to make them more restrictive.

I've seen one legislator on facebook already squealing that they are too permissive and he will, at minimum, raise the age to 21.

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1 hour ago, muzzelloader69 said:

when can we start carrying stun guns? 

Once we see how the final regulations are going to play out.

However, since an outright prohibition is now out the window, I will be picking up some stun guns (not tasers - those should be legal to posses in NJ too, but I'm just not interested in them) next time I'm traveling through a state that sells them.

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1 hour ago, DirtyDigz said:

Once we see how the final regulations are going to play out.

However, since an outright prohibition is now out the window, I will be picking up some stun guns (not tasers - those should be legal to posses in NJ too, but I'm just not interested in them) next time I'm traveling through a state that sells them.

Why not a taser?  Keep 'em at a distance rather than in contact?

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5 hours ago, DirtyDigz said:

The legislature does not have to accept the NJSP's proposed rules as they are currently.  They can change them/propose additional legislation to make them more restrictive.

I've seen one legislator on facebook already squealing that they are too permissive and he will, at minimum, raise the age to 21.

The legislature can do whatever it wants, but if Christie doesn't sign off on whatever they pass it won't become law. The state only has until some time Oct  to enact a law or there will be no law regulating stun guns.

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6 hours ago, Oakridgefirearms said:

The legislature can do whatever it wants, but if Christie doesn't sign off on whatever they pass it won't become law. The state only has until some time Oct  to enact a law or there will be no law regulating stun guns.

They can craft whatever restrictions they want outside of an outright ban and wait for the next governor.  There's nothing preventing them from enacting legislation after October.

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1 hour ago, DirtyDigz said:

They can craft whatever restrictions they want outside of an outright ban and wait for the next governor.  There's nothing preventing them from enacting legislation after October.

Even outside of an outright ban I think their hands are somewhat tied. Refer back to the SCOTUS ruling. The defendant was in possession on her person. The only thing I can possibly see is an age restriction as that was not in the decision.

And if legislation goes full retard, in the face of SCOTUS, we sue for constitutional compliance.

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41 minutes ago, Zeke said:

Even outside of an outright ban I think their hands are somewhat tied. Refer back to the SCOTUS ruling. The defendant was in possession on her person. The only thing I can possibly see is an age restriction as that was not in the decision.

And if legislation goes full retard, in the face of SCOTUS, we sue for constitutional compliance.

SCOTUS said you can't ban them outright.  They didn't say anything about background checks/permits before purchase, restricted/no carry, restrictions on power output etc. etc.

I want them to be unrestricted, I'm hoping they'll stay essentially unrestricted, but I think you're too sanguine if you think the laws will stay as currently proposed.

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1 hour ago, DirtyDigz said:

SCOTUS said you can't ban them outright.  They didn't say anything about background checks/permits before purchase, restricted/no carry, restrictions on power output etc. etc.

I want them to be unrestricted, I'm hoping they'll stay essentially unrestricted, but I think you're too sanguine if you think the laws will stay as currently proposed.

Well, stop brainstorming for them!!!! Bro 

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On 4/13/2017 at 7:03 PM, JohnnyB said:

As one who was on the receiving end of the "Summer showers" at Swiney's house, I am glad to see Newtonian giving some credit

where credit is due to Alex and NJ2AS. Despite the sarcastic statue in Armenia pointing an AK at a chess player comment!

 

My thanks to Alex and the rest at NJ2AS for fighting the good fight!

 

I have been and remain a member of the NRA and NJ2AS and will continue to support those organizations.

I will donate more to NJ2AS in the future and less to the NRA unless they show me some results here in the PRNJ!

 

Summer Showers are better than Golden ones!

100% with you re:NJ2AS vs NRA, I belong to both one calls me daily for $$$ and does nothing the other requests donations via their web site.

One get results the other gets hung up on.....

 

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Asbury Park Press 8/29/17:

 
banner.png

Stun guns, Tasers will jolt economy 

New policy is prompted by successful challenge by a gun rights group to ban

BOB JORDAN @BOBJORDANAPPTRENTON - Regulations allowing people over the age of 18 to possess stun guns legally in New Jersey for the first time are set to take effect later this year -- a change authorities say will create a demand for the devices that “will likely have a positive economic impact” for the state.

The new policy is prompted by a successful challenge by a gun rights group to a ban. Proposed regulations published in the New Jersey Register are scheduled to take effect after a public comment period ends Oct. 20.

That’s when residents can be expected to arm up with stun guns and Tasers, said Paul Sollitti, owner of NJ Arms in Ocean, a firearms outlet.

“At least that’s what I would hope for,” Sollitti said Thursday. “It’ll be good for business because right now a lot of people who feel unsafe at home might morally be opposed to having a gun. This is a device that gets them past that opposition. I predict a lot of people would get one for their home-defense plan.”

The proposed amendment to the state’s firearms laws - submitted by State Police Superintendent Joseph “Rick” Fuentes with the approval of Attorney General Christopher Porrino -- includes an “Economic Impact” section that states: “The proposed amendments and new rule will likely have a positive economic impact by authorizing the sale of stun guns to adults in New Jersey.”

“I think that passage is significant,” said Stephen Stamboulieh, one of the attorneys who filed the federal lawsuit that challenged New Jersey’s ban on private individuals owning stun guns. “You have the state saying it’s good for business and there will be increased economic activity from the change.”

“It makes you wonder why New Jersey resisted it in the first place,” he said.

New Jersey was one of only five states that banned residents outright from owning stun guns, which can be as small as a pack of cigarettes. A device emits an incapacitating charge of electricity through metal tips that can penetrate clothing and embed in the skin.

Stun guns and Tasers are terms that often used interchangeably, but the devices are different. A Taser is shot from a distance and is a form of electroshock weapon.

It shoots probes, which are connected to wires, toward the target.

In the proposed regulations, stun gun is defined as “any weapon or other device that emits an electrical charge or current intended to temporarily or permanently disable a person” -- wording that would also apply to Tasers. Officials in the Attorney General’s office did not respond to a request for clarification if both weapons are covered by the rules.

The state already allows police to use stun guns, but many departments have opted not to, citing high costs of equipping and training officers and restrictions on how and when to use the weapons.

In March 2016, the state relaxed some of the restrictions on how police can use stun guns. Under the new guidelines, police can stun a subject who poses a “substantial” risk of injuring someone. Previously police could only use stun guns to prevent death or serious injury.

Bob Jordan [email protected]

Image_2.jpg

Items used with the Taser stun gun are shown during an Atlantic City convention.

AP FILE PHOTO


Copyright © 2017 Asbury Park Press. All rights reserved.Use of this site signifies your agreement to the Terms of Service and Privacy Policy. (Updated June 7, 2005)
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You know, I have to laugh... these things are so very common... for god's sake, they're even for sale on Amazon!! The fact that this is even a big enough deal in NJ to merit state police and AG recommendations - and newspaper coverage - just goes to show you how this state really has it's head up it's ass. :facepalm:

My big concern - (and some other poster made this wise point, it's not my original thought) - is that somehow NJ will find a way to use this against us. Well, lady, sure you've got a restraining order and a crazy ex, but you don't need a gun and a concealed carry license --- because NOW, you can get a stun gun instead! That will meet your needs!

People like Sweeney and Weinberg will undoubtedly find some way to slither away from this good thing... and somehow turn it into a bad thing! Bank on it. I may be newer to some of these issues than the rest of you, but even I can envision that already!

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That is a terribly written article on so many levels.

A big issue that I see is the unrealistic expectation of what a stun gun can do vs what a Taser can do, and how many different ways even a Taser can be ineffective.

A stun gun relies solely on pain compliance - It does not feel much different then a hard pinch, a "Dead Leg" type punch, or a bad charlie horse cramp. It does not knock you unconscious for minutes like on TV or movies. It just hurts and as soon as you break contact from the stun gun, which is as easy as getting 1/8" of distance between your skin and the device, the pain stops immediately. If you have a determined attacker, all you are doing with it is pissing them off.

A Taser is a different animal and has the ability to completely incapacitate an individual for a very short time if deployed correctly - but there are a lot of considerations that need to be taken into account to use one successfully. AND just like a stun gun, once the device finishes its cycle, there are no lasting effects and the target is free to continue their aggressive actions with no after effects.

Everyone is clamoring for these devices but they just don't know what they are, how they work, any of their shortcomings, or the required TTPs you need to use one of these successfully. And, at the end of the day, if you look at our self defense laws - any time you would be justified to use one you would most likely be better served with a handgun.

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40 minutes ago, High Exposure said:

There is still no doubt in my mind that Tasers will be treated as handguns as far as permitting and Carrying is concerned.

Wasn't that the point, That is was deemed unconstitutional to ban these in NJ, in the 1st Place?

Why do you think they would add permitting if it's not a firearm?

As mentioned above in 45 states you can buy these on Amazon and have it tomorrow....

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If permitted, like a handgun, they are no longer banning an entire class of weapons in common usage.

Think of it like a BB gun - In VT you can buy on one in a gas station or Walmart or have Sportman's Guide ship one to your home. In NJ, you need an FID or permit to buy a BB gun depending.

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2 hours ago, High Exposure said:

If permitted, like a handgun, they are no longer banning an entire class of weapons in common usage.

Think of it like a BB gun - In VT you can buy on one in a gas station or Walmart or have Sportman's Guide ship one to your home. In NJ, you need an FID or permit to buy a BB gun depending.

Yeah.  What he said. 

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6 hours ago, High Exposure said:

That is a terribly written article on so many levels.

A big issue that I see is the unrealistic expectation of what a stun gun can do vs what a Taser can do, and how many different ways even a Taser can be ineffective.

A stun gun relies solely on pain compliance - It does not feel much different then a hard pinch, a "Dead Leg" type punch, or a bad charlie horse cramp. It does not knock you unconscious for minutes like on TV or movies. It just hurts and as soon as you break contact from the stun gun, which is as easy as getting 1/8" of distance between your skin and the device, the pain stops immediately. If you have a determined attacker, all you are doing with it is pissing them off.

A Taser is a different animal and has the ability to completely incapacitate an individual for a very short time if deployed correctly - but there are a lot of considerations that need to be taken into account to use one successfully. AND just like a stun gun, once the device finishes its cycle, there are no lasting effects and the target is free to continue their aggressive actions with no after effects.

Everyone is clamoring for these devices but they just don't know what they are, how they work, any of their shortcomings, or the required TTPs you need to use one of these successfully. And, at the end of the day, if you look at our self defense laws - any time you would be justified to use one you would most likely be better served with a handgun.

It has more to do with winning. And we need more winning here in NJ.

tripple fat goose, heavy leather. Useless 

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No you won't cry.

All "Voluntary Exposures" are strictly forbidden by the NJ AG. You can ask all you want, but anyone that Tazes you without you meeting the minimum UoF standard will be looking at some time off at best, and a few criminal charges at the worst.

The only way to get tazed is be very extraordinarily stupid when the cops show up. If you want to come up to my town and act the fool, well then.... I'm your Huckleberry.

bKlbDCy.jpg

 

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5 hours ago, High Exposure said:

No you won't cry.

All "Voluntary Exposures" are strictly forbidden by the NJ AG. You can ask all you want, but anyone that Tazes you without you meeting the minimum UoF standard will be looking at some time off at best, and a few criminal charges at the worst.

The only way to get tazed is be very extraordinarily stupid when the cops show up. If you want to come up to my town and act the fool, well then.... I'm your Huckelberry.

bKlbDCy.jpg

 

Translation " HE would like to taze me"...

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