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Krdshrk

NJ Stun Gun law ruled Unconstitutional

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2 hours ago, carl_g said:

So how do these things work? If you are lucky enough to hit the bad guy with the tazer? Do you shock them then run like hell? 

Step 1 wait till they are about 5 feet away or less to ensure a hit and pull the trigger. 

Step 2 keep pulling the trigger and hope the battery doesn't die. When the battery dies he's going to get up and beat the shit out of you.

Step 3 hope someone calls the cops so they can come and save your sorry ass. Don't expect any of the people standing around filming to help you at all.

Step 4 (if you're still alive) go through all the court bullshit, get sued by the scumbag, give him alot of your money and spend some time in jail.

Step 5 spend the rest of your life looking over your shoulder for the guy you tased because chances are he's going to track you down and kill you.

 

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Step 1 wait till they are about 5 feet away or less to ensure a hit and pull the trigger. 

Step 2 keep pulling the trigger and hope the battery doesn't die. When the battery dies he's going to get up and beat the shit out of you.

Step 3 hope someone calls the cops so they can come and save your sorry ass. Don't expect any of the people standing around filming to help you at all.

Step 4 (if you're still alive) go through all the court bullshit, get sued by the scumbag, give him alot of your money and spend some time in jail.

Step 5 spend the rest of your life looking over your shoulder for the guy you tased because chances are he's going to track you down and kill you.

 

Talk about hitting that $#!t right on the head [emoji23][emoji23][emoji23]

 

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1 hour ago, Krdshrk said:

I think it's more of a 5 second pulse, with 20 seconds max if you hold down the trigger...

The LE version is a 5 sec pulse and can deliver additional pulses.  The civy version delivers a 30 second pulse on delivery and can deliver additional pulses with a pull of the trigger.

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40 minutes ago, louu said:

Step 1 wait till they are about 5 feet away or less to ensure a hit and pull the trigger. 

Step 2 keep pulling the trigger and hope the battery doesn't die. When the battery dies he's going to get up and beat the shit out of you.

Step 3 hope someone calls the cops so they can come and save your sorry ass. Don't expect any of the people standing around filming to help you at all.

Step 4 (if you're still alive) go through all the court bullshit, get sued by the scumbag, give him alot of your money and spend some time in jail.

Step 5 spend the rest of your life looking over your shoulder for the guy you tased because chances are he's going to track you down and kill you.

I can't stop laughing! This is sooo funny... and probably very true. But... may I suggest a small addition to step 5?... for your consideration?  "... and forever regretting that you didn't just use a gun and shoot the S.O.B. in the first place instead of merely tasing him!"

Seriously though, I'm having a hard time figuring this all out.... I guess I haven't been following this closely (my bad, sorry)!

I thought I read that these were to be used inside the home??? Has that changed? Is the ruling that you can CARRY these outside the home? If that's the case, I can see some utility for them... particularly for people who don't have a carry license.

On the other hand, looking down the road, and thinking strategically... if you can carry these, does that just make it easier for NJ to deny a carry license for a firearm - "well, gee, Mr./Ms. Citizen... you don't need a gun, we're letting you use a stun gun, after all..." ???

Edit: Ok, sorry! I just buzzed through the thread... it looks like these are "carry" now...? Except on certain properties, like schools, etc.? Wow. That puts an interesting spin on things... how did I miss this? Duh.

I'm going to look into this more for myself as well as some of my very liberal girlfriends who would likely NEVER buy a gun. Yes, I know @High Exposure explained that stun guns have limitations as a defensive weapon - but something (used properly) is better than nothing IMO. Time to go to YouTube! LOL.

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1 hour ago, louu said:

Step 1 wait till they are about 5 feet away or less to ensure a hit and pull the trigger. 

Step 2 keep pulling the trigger and hope the battery doesn't die. When the battery dies he's going to get up and beat the shit out of you.

Step 3 hope someone calls the cops so they can come and save your sorry ass. Don't expect any of the people standing around filming to help you at all.

Step 4 (if you're still alive) go through all the court bullshit, get sued by the scumbag, give him alot of your money and spend some time in jail.

Step 5 spend the rest of your life looking over your shoulder for the guy you tased because chances are he's going to track you down and kill you.

 

Sooooo.  basically you are saying, do nothing.  Let the BG kill you, rape your wife, steal your car, molest your children because he/she may try to hit you and afterwords you may end up in court and have to worry about charles manson tracking you down.  Hmmm    Well, if you can't run, that only leaves defense or acquiescence.  Since you are not too keen on defense, then I guess, what, just take it then?

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2 hours ago, Scorpio64 said:

...Interesting thing I learned.  When you shoot the taser, confetti comes out.  The confetti is stamped with a cartridge ID so LE can track who pulled the trigger.

...

You mean, track who Taser sold the cartridge to initially.  Are the distributors selling to civilians keeping track of who bought what cartridges?

Is 'confetti' in the civilian pulse model cartridges?

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28 minutes ago, Scorpio64 said:

Sooooo.  basically you are saying, do nothing.  Let the BG kill you, rape your wife, steal your car, molest your children because he/she may try to hit you and afterwords you may end up in court and have to worry about charles manson tracking you down.  Hmmm    Well, if you can't run, that only leaves defense or acquiescence.  Since you are not too keen on defense, then I guess, what, just take it then?

That's not what I said at all, in fact that's not even close to what I said. What are you a Democratic news anchor something?

 

Joke much brah?

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1 hour ago, louu said:

That's not what I said at all, in fact that's not even close to what I said.

2 hours ago, louu said:

Step 1 wait till they are about 5 feet away or less to ensure a hit and pull the trigger. 

Step 2 keep pulling the trigger and hope the battery doesn't die. When the battery dies he's going to get up and beat the shit out of you.

Step 3 hope someone calls the cops so they can come and save your sorry ass. Don't expect any of the people standing around filming to help you at all.

Step 4 (if you're still alive) go through all the court bullshit, get sued by the scumbag, give him alot of your money and spend some time in jail.

Step 5 spend the rest of your life looking over your shoulder for the guy you tased because chances are he's going to track you down and kill you.

 

It's exactly what you said.  btw, getting all uppity and calling me some ridiculous thing like a democrat news anchor, weak "brah"

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26 minutes ago, Scorpio64 said:

It's exactly what you said.  btw, getting all uppity and calling me some ridiculous thing like a democrat news anchor, weak "brah"

Boys! Stop squabbling...  :slap:   

Maybe I'm the one who misinterpreted...? But I really didn't think @louu was suggesting people shouldn't defend themselves! Quite the contrary, I took it as a sarcastic commentary, in part, on how badly this state treats law-abiding citizens who attempt to defend themselves. That's all. (Sarcasm doesn't always come across in writing...but that's how I took it anyway).

Now make nice... shake hands! :friends:Who knows? Might even lead to an epic bromance... :wub:

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1 hour ago, louu said:

Scorpio will you be my Valentine I'm a cancer

I dunno man, you called me a democrat.  That's a pretty big hurdle.   Being called a  goat fucker would be less offensive than being called a democrat.  It's going to take a big heart shaped box of chocolates to fix this relationship.

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21 minutes ago, djw2033 said:

Evan Nappen just wrote a long fb post explaining how carrying tasers is his mind is still illegal .. not good 

Schmutter too.  Schmutter originated it.  I think Perinno needs to come up with another memorandum.  Crux of the problem is it's a weapon with no non-weapon use.  And NJ has multiple (too many) weapons laws.  So normal usage of carrying would technically be considered a crime.  Getting a County Prosecutor to charge you & a DA to try the case could be problematic however.  Nobody wants to be the test case for uncharted case law..........  And of course we covered it on CNJFO's Facebook page :) 

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11 hours ago, Mrs. Peel said:

I can't stop laughing! This is sooo funny... and probably very true. But... may I suggest a small addition to step 5?... for your consideration?  "... and forever regretting that you didn't just use a gun and shoot the S.O.B. in the first place instead of merely tasing him!"

Seriously though, I'm having a hard time figuring this all out.... I guess I haven't been following this closely (my bad, sorry)!

I thought I read that these were to be used inside the home??? Has that changed? Is the ruling that you can CARRY these outside the home? If that's the case, I can see some utility for them... particularly for people who don't have a carry license.

On the other hand, looking down the road, and thinking strategically... if you can carry these, does that just make it easier for NJ to deny a carry license for a firearm - "well, gee, Mr./Ms. Citizen... you don't need a gun, we're letting you use a stun gun, after all..." ???

Edit: Ok, sorry! I just buzzed through the thread... it looks like these are "carry" now...? Except on certain properties, like schools, etc.? Wow. That puts an interesting spin on things... how did I miss this? Duh.

I'm going to look into this more for myself as well as some of my very liberal girlfriends who would likely NEVER buy a gun. Yes, I know @High Exposure explained that stun guns have limitations as a defensive weapon - but something (used properly) is better than nothing IMO. Time to go to YouTube! LOL.

Carry. But if you , god forbid, have to use it; expect liability. If you can carry a gun, carry a gun

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Everything I read says ability to own not carry... Don't you guys get in trouble for weapon possession if you are pulled over, have a big mag light in car, and your answer to the officer's question of "What do you have that in your car for?" is "Just in case?"

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5 minutes ago, carl_g said:

Everything I read says ability to own not carry... Don't you guys get in trouble for weapon possession if you are pulled over, have a big mag light in car, and your answer to the officer's question of "What do you have that in your car for?" is "Just in case?"

The answer to "why do you have a knife/mag light/baseball bat/stun gun" is "for all legal purposes in the state of NJ, officer".

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1 hour ago, DirtyDigz said:

The answer to "why do you have a knife/mag light/baseball bat/stun gun" is "for all legal purposes in the state of NJ, officer".

someone told me that the ruling specifically stated that self defense is not one of those reasons? can someone link the test to the ruling here again? also....can someone copy/paste nappens stuff from farcebook  here for those of us that don't go to farcebook?

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Per Evan Nappen

Carrying Stun Guns and Tasers in NJ:

This was posted by my friend and colleague Daniel Schmutter, an excellent attorney, regarding whether we can now CARRY  tasers and stun guns. I agree with his legal analysis. 

Under NJ law, weapons are frequently governed by multiple statutes at the same time.  So for example, there are per se prohibitions under 2C:39-3 for weapons such as switchblade knives, dirks, daggers, and stilettos. 

Then there is also the general prohibition in 2C:39-5(d) on possession of weapons under circumstances not manifestly appropriate for such lawful uses as it may have.  

Even though a dirk is subject to the per se prohibition of 2C:39-3, it is almost certainly also subject to the more general prohibition of 2C:39-5(d).  So if, tomorrow, the legislature repealed the per se prohibition of dirks from 2C:39-3, a dirk would still be a weapon and therefore subject to the more general prohibition found in 2C:39-5(d). 

So now applying that to stun guns.  Stun guns were previously per se illegal under 2C:39-3(h).  The result of the lawsuit is that 2C:39-3(h) was stricken as unconstitutional.   So it is no longer per se illegal.

But a stun gun is still a weapon under 2C:39-1(r), and so it is almost certainly subject to the more general prohibition of 2C:39-5(d), that is, under circumstances not manifestly appropriate for such lawful uses as it may have.  The lawsuit did nothing to change this, nor do the new proposed regulations.

We know that under State v. Kelly, self defense does not count as a "lawful use" under 2C:39-5(d).  The term "weapon" is very broadly defined under NJ Law.  Thus, many items that fit the definition of "weapon" also have non-weapon uses, such as a baseball bat.  So the idea is that the closer you are to possessing a weapon for its non-weapon purpose (like possession of a baseball bat at a baseball game), the better off you are under 2C:39-5(d).

So now applying this to stun guns, its hard to imagine carrying a stun gun in public for a non-weapon purpose.  Without such a non-weapon purpose, carrying around a stun gun poses a very substantial risk that you could be charged with violating 2C:39-5(d).

So, I think folks would take a huge risk carrying around a stun gun.

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This is just coming up now?  When I first heard the ban had been lifted I just ASSUMED it was still illegal to carry them. Comeon folks, this is NJ...they will fight your rights every step of the way.

I can't see any sense buying one if it's going to sit home with my guns, and if I need a weapon at home, the gun is my weapon of choice. This is another NJ nothingburger.

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2 minutes ago, JayWilling said:

This is just coming up now?  When I first heard the ban had been lifted I just ASSUMED it was still illegal to carry them. Comeon folks, this is NJ...they will fight your rights every step of the way.

I can't see any sense buying one if it's going to sit home with my guns, and if I need a weapon at home, the gun is my weapon of choice. This is another nothingburger.

No, it’s actually not a nothing burger.

 

 

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As of October 22, 2017, in accordance with a Consent Order entered in the United States District Court, prior statutory prohibitions against selling or possessing stun guns in New Jersey have been declared unconstitutional.  By virtue of this ruling, New Jersey is now on similar footing as 39 other states that allow stun guns with limited or no restrictions so, unless there is a change to the law, no permit or license will be required to obtain or possess a stun gun.  However, the State Police have proposed a rule, expected to be adopted in December, prohibiting minors under the age of 18 from obtaining or possessing stun guns. Law enforcement has been directed to adhere to this rule, pending adoption and thereafter.   In addition to the proposed regulations, current statutory provisions that establish restrictions on stun guns remain in force and effect, including laws that prohibit felons and incompetent persons from possessing stun guns, possession on school grounds, possession for an unlawful purpose, and possession under circumstances not manifestly appropriate for such lawful uses as a stun gun may have. 

 

 

This is what I got from the ags office 

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Again, Nappen is wrong. Just like the shockwave issue. We have State Officials putting out letters stating things are now legal. Yes, the laws need to be changed to reflect that. Why isn't Nappen trying to change the law instead of making thee statements? Nevermind..$$$$$$$

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7 minutes ago, PK90 said:

Again, Nappen is wrong. Just like the shockwave issue. We have State Officials putting out letters stating things are now legal. Yes, the laws need to be changed to reflect that. Why isn't Nappen trying to change the law instead of making thee statements? Nevermind..$$$$$$$

I was never a big fan...Mouth piece = $$$$$.

Call him with a problem, unless you are in the news, you will never receive a call back. My Personal experience.

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