capt14k 2,051 Posted December 7, 2016 I thought it was over. Darrenf correct me if I'm wrong but didn't 10x just say GMOs killed bees? Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
capt14k 2,051 Posted December 7, 2016 Applying a pesticide to a plant is most emphatically NOT a genetic modification. Neonicotinoids have their issues, but they are quite incapable of modifying DNA. It is when applied to the seeds. That is commonly accepted. At least I thought it was. Why I am debating this I don't know. You want to eat the latest and greatest chemicals be my guest. I don't care. I don't want to eat them, I can afford to buy food without them, that is my choice. States should have choice too. It shouldn't be dictated by federal government. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
10X 3,278 Posted December 7, 2016 I thought it was over. Darrenf correct me if I'm wrong but didn't 10x just say GMOs killed bees? Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk I said: "GMOs have not been implicated in bee die-offs." Which is to say, GMOs do not kill bees. And to correct your follow-up post, applying an insecticide to the seed does not a GMO make. You're describing a systemic insecticide, one that can move through plant tissues (as opposed to a topical insecticide, which stays on the plant surface. A Genetically-Modified Organism is one in which the genome, that is to say the DNA sequence, has been altered, whether by cross-breeding or genetic manipulation in the lab. Application of an insecticide does NOT modify the genome. 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
capt14k 2,051 Posted December 7, 2016 I said: "GMOs have not been implicated in bee die-offs." Which is to say, GMOs do not kill bees. And to correct your follow-up post, applying an insecticide to the seed does not a GMO make. You're describing a systemic insecticide, one that can move through plant tissues (as opposed to a topical insecticide, which stays on the plant surface. A Genetically-Modified Organism is one in which the genome, that is to say the DNA sequence, has been altered, whether by cross-breeding or genetic manipulation in the lab. Application of an insecticide does NOT modify the genome. Ok believe what you want Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Smokin .50 1,907 Posted December 7, 2016 30 posts on GMO's and the Bee's knees.....annnnnnnnd NO ONE volunteered to step-up OR give me $30 MILLION dollars to "buy politicians", lol, OR sign-up and get a T-shirt and "Bee" counted. So whom do we select to chair our Super-Pac with NO money, NO members, and just APATHY? Crickets? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Newtonian 453 Posted December 7, 2016 I really don't care to debate GMO foods. Monsanto is a scummy corporation that owns politicians and can get them to vote however they want like many other companies that give millions can. My point is if we give millions to politicians as one group we can change their vote. I think that is the easier path than getting out the vote. Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk Yessiree. Why do it legally and intelligently when you can get a nice 15 year jail term for bribery? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Newtonian 453 Posted December 7, 2016 I said: "GMOs have not been implicated in bee die-offs." Which is to say, GMOs do not kill bees. And to correct your follow-up post, applying an insecticide to the seed does not a GMO make. You're describing a systemic insecticide, one that can move through plant tissues (as opposed to a topical insecticide, which stays on the plant surface. A Genetically-Modified Organism is one in which the genome, that is to say the DNA sequence, has been altered, whether by cross-breeding or genetic manipulation in the lab. Application of an insecticide does NOT modify the genome. 1) The bee die-off is a total myth, completely debunked and based on a few instances of colony collapse. The global warming of the insect world. Actually "climate change" has been blamed for dying bees. 2) The term GMO is generally not applied to products of cross breeding between two members of the same species. Genetic engineering involves the artificial introduction of specific genes to confer some characteristic that the original organism does not possess and could not normally be conferred by selective cross-breeding. Think: Tomatoes that taste like pancakes. Unfortunately off-target insertion or deletion of genes they are not targeting is unavoidable. These effects may not be immediately obvious. 3) Application of insecticide, varying exposure to light, and even physical stress does affect genetics. The field is called epigenetics -- how environment controls genes. Amazingly these effects have been found to pass to offspring as well. This is one topic on which I believe the crypto-communist tree-hugging fuzzy legged lesbian golden-showering lactating tower-of-power bearded she-trannies are correct. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
capt14k 2,051 Posted December 7, 2016 Yessiree. Why do it legally and intelligently when you can get a nice 15 year jail term for bribery? Super Pacs are not illegal. I am tired of the PC BS. You want to call it lobbying fine. We all know they buy votes. Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Newtonian 453 Posted December 7, 2016 Super Pacs are not illegal. I am tired of the PC BS. You want to call it lobbying fine. We all know they buy votes. Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk But bribery is illegal. And besides, SuperPacs don't support candidates out of the blue. I don't think a pro-gun Superpac would work very well with Elizabeth Warren, for example. You support someone who's generally friendly, who needs a nudge not a freaking nuclear explosion. All those pro-2A groups have their own agendas. They could influence elections in enough districts to turn the legislature around, and it wouldn't cost very much money. But that would require cooperation between them and among their members. It's so much more fun to fantasize about demonstrations in Trenton, the impact of email campaigns, building concrete bunkers, inducing diarrhea, and recalling bad politicians one at a time. OMG! LOL! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
capt14k 2,051 Posted December 7, 2016 But bribery is illegal. And besides, SuperPacs don't support candidates out of the blue. I don't think a pro-gun Superpac would work very well with Elizabeth Warren, for example. You support someone who's generally friendly, who needs a nudge not a freaking nuclear explosion. All those pro-2A groups have their own agendas. They could influence elections in enough districts to turn the legislature around, and it wouldn't cost very much money. But that would require cooperation between them and among their members. It's so much more fun to fantasize about demonstrations in Trenton, the impact of email campaigns, building concrete bunkers, inducing diarrhea, and recalling bad politicians one at a time. OMG! LOL! I don't know I've seen tree hugging Dems vote how the oil companies want. We aren't going to flip Loretta Weinberg but maybe some of the others. I figure quarter million campaign donation could influence someone to support 2A who normally wouldn't, but isn't a vocal anti. Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Newtonian 453 Posted December 7, 2016 I don't know I've seen tree hugging Dems vote how the oil companies want. We aren't going to flip Loretta Weinberg but maybe some of the others. I figure quarter million campaign donation could influence someone to support 2A who normally wouldn't, but isn't a vocal anti. Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk You're dreaming. I couldn't get 20 people here (and among my friends) to send a pre-written email message to their state rep, and you're going to raise $250,000 for a pig in a poke. Start a SuperPac. Ah-huh. Run by...legal papers filed by...?? Maybe get Ever Nappin'? That's one assemblyman. $250,000 more for the second pig in a poke...and another. Tell me how raising $3 million for 12 pigs in 12 pokes is easier or less expensive than mobilizing voters. You realize of course that if you donate contingent on their voting a certain way that is, in fact, bribery. That's why I said this only works with people who need a nudge not a 15 ton tractor. I want some of whatever it is you're snorting. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
capt14k 2,051 Posted December 7, 2016 You're dreaming. I couldn't get 20 people here (and among my friends) to send a pre-written email message to their state rep, and you're going to raise $250,000 for a pig in a poke. Start a SuperPac. Ah-huh. Run by...legal papers filed by...?? Maybe get Ever Nappin'? That's one assemblyman. $250,000 more for the second pig in a poke...and another. Tell me how raising $3 million for 12 pigs in 12 pokes is easier or less expensive than mobilizing voters. You realize of course that if you donate contingent on their voting a certain way that is, in fact, bribery. That's why I said this only works with people who need a nudge not a 15 ton tractor. I want some of whatever it is you're snorting. I guess Super Pacs for industries exist for no reason. I guess they just like the candidates and pool their money for the heck of it. How much do you think Isreal gives to U.S. Congressmen? Why do you think that is? The money is being raised by a Super Pac made up of all current 2A groups. Can even get gun manufacturers to contribute. Yes I am thinking outside the box. The reason is because nothing anyone has done has succeeded. The one lawsuit going on thought outside the box and may have the best hope. It is going to take either Federal Intervention or thinking outside the box. For the record screw Evan Nappan myself and two other people I know contacted him and got no response. Based on how he handled the one lawsuit I think he maybe a plant for the antis. Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Newtonian 453 Posted December 8, 2016 I guess Super Pacs for industries exist for no reason. I guess they just like the candidates and pool their money for the heck of it. How much do you think Isreal gives to U.S. Congressmen? Why do you think that is? The money is being raised by a Super Pac made up of all current 2A groups. Can even get gun manufacturers to contribute. Yes I am thinking outside the box. The reason is because nothing anyone has done has succeeded. The one lawsuit going on thought outside the box and may have the best hope. It is going to take either Federal Intervention or thinking outside the box. For the record screw Evan Nappan myself and two other people I know contacted him and got no response. Based on how he handled the one lawsuit I think he maybe a plant for the antis. Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk PACS don't throw their money away. Please look at this list: http://www.opensecrets.org/news/issues/guns/vote_2013.php It shows PAC support for senators who voted on the Manchin-Toomey amendment for universal background checks. At the time proponents of the bill argued that for this minor concession the final bill would contain valuable concessions to gun owners, in particular carry reciprocity. From the perspective of all the shit we go through in NJ, compared with how bad gun control laws could be, Manchin-Toomey was quite benign. Just 12 of 54 Democrats/Liberals received gun PAC money. Eyeballing those, eight come from very gun-friendly states (including Manchin). Curiously Bernie did not receive $$. Why do you think that is? Of those Democrats who received money only Harry Reid, Max Baucus, and Mark Pryor voted against the bill. Why do you think that is? 43 of 46 Republicans received PAC money. Why do you think that is? I'll tell you why that is. It's because with only one exception I could see, Manchin himself, they were donating only to Senators who were either voting against the bill, who had voted against gun control in the past, or who were on the fence. Now you think you can bribe Ms. 40-Something Assemblywoman from Kearny with $250,000, to vote in some indeterminately beneficial way for your gun rights and thereby end her political career and never have another cocktail party at her home and never be appointed to a judgeship in NJ or asked to serve on this or that board? Really? And what will you do about the other 16 votes you have to flip to succeed? Give them each $250,000 as well? OMG and what happens when several Republican votes flip? Start again in 2 years, this time give EVERYBODY $250,000. And what if Ms. McGillicuddy doesn't take your money? This is such a pipe dream but go ahead and dream. That's what forums are for. 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
capt14k 2,051 Posted December 8, 2016 PACS don't throw their money away. Please look at this list: http://www.opensecrets.org/news/issues/guns/vote_2013.php It shows PAC support for senators who voted on the Manchin-Toomey amendment for universal background checks. At the time proponents of the bill argued that for this minor concession the final bill would contain valuable concessions to gun owners, in particular carry reciprocity. From the perspective of all the shit we go through in NJ, compared with how bad gun control laws could be, Manchin-Toomey was quite benign. Just 12 of 54 Democrats/Liberals received gun PAC money. Eyeballing those, eight come from very gun-friendly states (including Manchin). Curiously Bernie did not receive $$. Why do you think that is? Of those Democrats who received money only Harry Reid, Max Baucus, and Mark Pryor voted against the bill. Why do you think that is? 43 of 46 Republicans received PAC money. Why do you think that is? I'll tell you why that is. It's because with only one exception I could see, Manchin himself, they were donating only to Senators who were either voting against the bill, who had voted against gun control in the past, or who were on the fence. Now you think you can bribe Ms. 40-Something Assemblywoman from Kearny with $250,000, to vote in some indeterminately beneficial way for your gun rights and thereby end her political career and never have another cocktail party at her home and never be appointed to a judgeship in NJ or asked to serve on this or that board? Really? And what will you do about the other 16 votes you have to flip to succeed? Give them each $250,000 as well? OMG and what happens when several Republican votes flip? Start again in 2 years, this time give EVERYBODY $250,000. And what if Ms. McGillicuddy doesn't take your money? This is such a pipe dream but go ahead and dream. That's what forums are for. I never said PACS throw their money away. It is money well spent. Forums are for 3 things IMO. Entertainment and Talking smack, Learning, and Brainstorming. So far no one has come up with the answer so bribery is just as good as anything else at this point. I said spending money on Weinberg will not work. I'm talking the Dems in NJ who don't feel strongly anti gun. I would be curious as to Congressional PAC donations. Buying a US Senator is the hardest thing to do. Since you didn't find it in your research Israel gave $360M to Senators and Congressmen. In return they got an increased $30B Aid Package. Which for the record is against U.S. Law. I don't have a problem with supporting Israel. They should change the law. It is one example of money well spent. Another example since you mentioned him Joe Manchin. He was the one screaming how bad Zohydro was. Now do you think he cares for one minute about opiate addiction? If so your wrong. Look who his biggest campaign contributor is. Mylan. Coincidentally his daughter his CEO of Mylan. Mylan makes fentynal and they wanted Zohydro killed to bring their own hydrocodone time release med to market first. Joe Manchin is a Senator who is bought and paid for. Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rob0115 1,105 Posted December 8, 2016 Boy has this thread wandered off a bit, eh? 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Newtonian 453 Posted December 8, 2016 I never said PACS throw their money away. It is money well spent. Forums are for 3 things IMO. Entertainment and Talking smack, Learning, and Brainstorming. So far no one has come up with the answer so bribery is just as good as anything else at this point. I said spending money on Weinberg will not work. I'm talking the Dems in NJ who don't feel strongly anti gun. I would be curious as to Congressional PAC donations. Buying a US Senator is the hardest thing to do. Since you didn't find it in your research Israel gave $360M to Senators and Congressmen. In return they got an increased $30B Aid Package. Which for the record is against U.S. Law. I don't have a problem with supporting Israel. They should change the law. It is one example of money well spent. Another example since you mentioned him Joe Manchin. He was the one screaming how bad Zohydro was. Now do you think he cares for one minute about opiate addiction? If so your wrong. Look who his biggest campaign contributor is. Mylan. Coincidentally his daughter his CEO of Mylan. Mylan makes fentynal and they wanted Zohydro killed to bring their own hydrocodone time release med to market first. Joe Manchin is a Senator who is bought and paid for. Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk You're right that all these bastards are bought and sold to the highest bidder. The past month -- can't believe it's been 30 days already -- has reinforced my belief that by the time they gain any office of consequence, democrats are beyond redemption. They hold a handful of beliefs that are inseparable, a package deal. They parlay those in their current positions and beyond, for a lifetime. As such barring an existential threat to their careers the chances of turning even a "moderate" NJ democrat legislator around on guns is a near impossibility. Too much of their livelihoods, looking forward, depend on them not straying from the fold on race, guns, abortion, immigration, etc. One false move and they're doomed. If social and "news" media don't kill them their fellow-travelers will eat them for breakfast. There are exceptions of course, like that pro-gun Van (Dutch name) in S. Jersey. But generally you either tote the party line or you can find another line of work. Note also the cynical, almost lunatic irony of this suggestion: Our problem in NJ is a democratic legislature and soon-to-be democratic governor, and you guys want to give democratic candidates $250,000. Have you lost your minds? They'll take the money and laugh in your face. Like I said the only thing they understand is a hard, two-legged kick in the balls and a blindside brass-knuckled roundhouse to the f-ing teeth. We can do this legally by un-electing a few of them. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Newtonian 453 Posted December 8, 2016 Boy has this thread wandered off a bit, eh? It's called Newtonian Syndrome. 60% of forums I frequent suffer from this fatal but curable disease and they don't even know they have it. A simple digital rectal exam diagnoses this conditions, followed by a curative tabasco enema. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Smokin .50 1,907 Posted December 8, 2016 30 posts on GMO's and the Bee's knees.....annnnnnnnd NO ONE volunteered to step-up OR give me $30 MILLION dollars to "buy politicians", lol, OR sign-up and get a T-shirt and "Bee" counted. So whom do we select to chair our Super-Pac with NO money, NO members, and just APATHY? Crickets? BUMP! I'LL JUST THROW THIS IN EVERY 30 POSTS OR SO.............. Why are we only hearing crickets? Is everybody still in their Bunkers? http://www.cnjfo.com/join-us Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jm1827 284 Posted December 8, 2016 Holy metamorphosis...didn't this thread start about what we were going to buy before our next governor gets elected? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rob0115 1,105 Posted December 8, 2016 It's called Newtonian Syndrome. 60% of forums I frequent suffer from this fatal but curable disease and they don't even know they have it. A simple digital rectal exam diagnoses this conditions, followed by a curative tabasco enema. I'll pass. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
always_an_eagle 165 Posted December 8, 2016 Holy metamorphosis...didn't this thread start about what we were going to buy before our next governor gets elected?Can we get back to topic please? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
YankeeSC 1,204 Posted December 8, 2016 Can we get back to topic please? Sure ... I am still wanting a .45 pistol, maybe a compact 9mm, and a 9mm carbine. For now. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jm1827 284 Posted December 9, 2016 Can we get back to topic please? I am thinking about selling my SR45 and getting an M1911 and maybe a hand cannon, .454 Casull or a .460. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Screwball 483 Posted December 9, 2016 I am thinking about selling my SR45 and getting an M1911 and maybe a hand cannon, .454 Casull or a .460. Go .460... you can shoot .454 and .45 Colt out of it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
FirearmFrank 2 Posted December 9, 2016 just picked up a Yugoslavian M72 RPK Parts Kit going to get that built along with a few other AK parts kits. Then pick up a Glock 19 since i need more handguns. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PK90 3,569 Posted December 9, 2016 Great avatar FF. 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jm1827 284 Posted December 9, 2016 Go .460... you can shoot .454 and .45 Colt out of it. You just made my decision much easier! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rob0115 1,105 Posted December 9, 2016 You just made my decision much easier! I've often considered one of these just for that reason. They are expensive and hard to find though. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Golf battery 1,223 Posted December 10, 2016 Rob. Not hard to find. I got mine for just that reason. Rather than the 500 s&w. I can take my pick of the three calibers. Its a blast to shoot. I put a scope on it. The 460 or 454 rds are quite pricey though. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rob0115 1,105 Posted December 10, 2016 Rob. Not hard to find. I got mine for just that reason. Rather than the 500 s&w. I can take my pick of the three calibers. Its a blast to shoot. I put a scope on it. The 460 or 454 rds are quite pricey though.I've seen very few for sale. I haven't looked that hard but some day I'll get one. I reload so it'll cut some of the cost. Which model do you have? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites