ajpaul59

Concealed Carry Reciprocity Act of 2017 Hudson, NC

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I've read a few different takes on the proposed Hudson bill being drafted for the new administration.  Some say there is no residency requirement and it would cover any state issued permit to carry, others say you'd need a valid permit from your residency state.  Does anyone know how it would treat states like NJ where "may issue" is the law but where in reality, residents have no chance of getting a permit? 

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I am not sure how this would work in NJ:

 

"..... in any other state that permits residents to carry a concealed firearm, in accordance with the restrictions of that state."

 

NJ considers justifiable need as a requirement so it is unknown if another states permit that doesn't require justifiable need would be valid in NJ.

 

It still is short of the 60 votes required in the Senate to pass.

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I am not sure how this would work in NJ:

 

"..... in any other state that permits residents to carry a concealed firearm, in accordance with the restrictions of that state."

 

NJ considers justifiable need as a requirement so it is unknown if another states permit that doesn't require justifiable need would be valid in NJ.

 

It still is short of the 60 votes required in the Senate to pass.

Thats not what  the bill means. It means any state's permit shall be honored in NJ (If it allows conceal carry, which it does) and THEN   the person has to adhere to NJ restrictions. Lets say NJ says you cannot take your gun in movie theatre or other restrictions. An outsider has to carry his gun just as a NJ guy with permit to carry would.  The idea is just like an out of state driving license.

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Thats not what  the bill means. It means any state's permit shall be honored in NJ (If it allows conceal carry, which it does) and THEN   the person has to adhere to NJ restrictions. Lets say NJ says you cannot take your gun in movie theatre or other restrictions. An outsider has to carry his gun just as a NJ guy with permit to carry would.  The idea is just like an out of state driving license.

 

So if NJ residents have a non resident permit from any other state, we would be legal in NJ?  THAT would be something! 

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 There are other threads dealing with this issue. I dont think so. You only can buy your gun  in NJ as everyone can buy their guns ONLY in their home state.

The gun has to arrive in NJ by interstate transportation to  fall under this law. Yours does not. The bill is not made to force any state to issue more  permits but to allow those that have it to bring their guns along.  

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 There are other threads dealing with this issue. I dont think so. You only can buy your gun  in NJ as everyone can buy their guns ONLY in their home state.

The gun has to arrive in NJ by interstate transportation to  fall under this law. Yours does not. The bill is not made to force any state to issue more  permits but to allow those that have it to bring their guns along.  

Not correct. Too many federal laws will crumble if one were to argue a firearm purchased in NJ does not fall under "interstate commerce". GRIZ recently responded with pretty good explanation of history of interstate commerce clause and laws. 

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Thats not what  the bill means. It means any state's permit shall be honored in NJ (If it allows conceal carry, which it does) and THEN   the person has to adhere to NJ restrictions. Lets say NJ says you cannot take your gun in movie theatre or other restrictions. An outsider has to carry his gun just as a NJ guy with permit to carry would.  The idea is just like an out of state driving license.

so it means for us? that our non-resident permits would now allow us to carry here?

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In a search of this, It looks like it may well bring relief to NJ residents that have non res permits. It in no way will effect the way NJ issues permits, as that's not it intent,     Not saying that if it or something like it should pass. That it may possibly push NJ by cause and effect, to remove "Justifiable need" in order to turn CCW permits into A cash cow for the state.

Just think about the price tag that NJ could put on requirements for A NJ CCW.   

 

 

 

Unfortunatly I'm not good at finding and attaching items to pages..

Its an easy search, for one of you guys to get and post here.

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Text of the bill in a link in the story and at the bottom of this post:

 

http://freebeacon.com/issues/national-concealed-carry-reciprocity-bill-drawn-up-for-next-congress/

 

The new Congress is still weeks away from being sworn in, but one Republican congressman has already written a national concealed carry reciprocity bill to submit to it.

North Carolina Republican Rep. Richard Hudson on Monday released the details of the bill he plans to introduce in the next session. The bill would allow anybody with a valid concealed carry permit from the state they live in to carry a gun in any other state.

 

http://dailycaller.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/12/Concealed-Carry-Reciprocity-Act-of-2017-Rep.-Hudson.pdf

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Text of the bill in a link in the story and at the bottom of this post:

 

http://freebeacon.com/issues/national-concealed-carry-reciprocity-bill-drawn-up-for-next-congress/

 

The new Congress is still weeks away from being sworn in, but one Republican congressman has already written a national concealed carry reciprocity bill to submit to it.

North Carolina Republican Rep. Richard Hudson on Monday released the details of the bill he plans to introduce in the next session. The bill would allow anybody with a valid concealed carry permit from the state they live in to carry a gun in any other state.

 

http://dailycaller.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/12/Concealed-Carry-Reciprocity-Act-of-2017-Rep.-Hudson.pdf

 

thats how i read it as well... this one will do nothing for jersey residents.

 

we need a right-to-carry bill to help here

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Thats the bill as written, which has the clarity of the bill.   I didnt see that bill in my search, so yes, as written it doesnt do much for us.

Basically it keeps things as they are now with the states that recognize Non-Res permits that some of us now have in NJ.

 

Whos well enough in writing to send A letter to this Rep in NC? touching on our situation here in NJ.

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A video with NC Congressmen Hudson:

 

GOP Lawmaker Betting on Trump to Push New Concealed Carry Law


 

"The lawmaker behind the bill, Rep. Richard Hudson (R-NC), joined the FOX Business Network’s Stuart Varney to discuss how the proposed National Concealed Carry Reciprocity Bill would work."

 

“It would work just like a driver’s license,” he said. “If a state has concealed carry, then what it says is you recognize the concealed carry right and you have to follow their laws.”

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A video with NC Congressmen Hudson:
 
GOP Lawmaker Betting on Trump to Push New Concealed Carry Law
 
"The lawmaker behind the bill, Rep. Richard Hudson (R-NC), joined the FOX Business Network’s Stuart Varney to discuss how the proposed National Concealed Carry Reciprocity Bill would work."
 
“It would work just like a driver’s license,” he said. “If a state has concealed carry, then what it says is you recognize the concealed carry right and you have to follow their laws.”

 

but basically this will do nothing for us here in NJ

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"Notwithstanding any provision of the law of any  State or political subdivision thereof (except as provided 10 in subsection (b)), a person who is not prohibited by Federal law from possessing, transporting, shipping, or receiving a firearm, who is carrying a valid identification document containing a photograph of the person, and who is carrying a valid license or permit which is issued pursuant to the law of a State and which permits the person to carry a concealed firearm or is entitled to carry a concealed firearm in the State in which the person resides, may possess or carry a concealed handgun (other than a  machinegun or destructive device) that has been shipped 20 or transported in interstate or foreign commerce, in any State, other than the State of residence of the person..."

 

The bold language is the problem.  It explicitly only applies to resident carry permits, and the law doesn't apply within your own state.  Zero help to us in NJ even if for those with non-resident permits from other states.  And if you think the NJ legislature is going to cave on NJ permits to possess in order to raise revenue I have a traffic-jammed bridge to sell you.  NJ will threaten, harrass, detain and incarcerate out of staters with permits and take their chances in court, or just ban carry altogether to remove themselves from the statute.  The state will never, ever back down on this issue.  The only hope now is the renewed, long term hope of Supreme Court relief after (if) Trump appoints two or more 2A friendly justices.  That is going to be a long, long haul.  At least 2-3 years before we have 2 or more new justices.  Then "Drake 2" will need to be filed and wend its way through the courts again and we can then hope that the Supreme Court decides to take the carry case and rule in our favor.  Think 5-10 years.

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"Notwithstanding any provision of the law of any  State or political subdivision thereof (except as provided 10 in subsection (b)), a person who is not prohibited by Federal law from possessing, transporting, shipping, or receiving a firearm, who is carrying a valid identification document containing a photograph of the person, and who is carrying a valid license or permit which is issued pursuant to the law of a State and which permits the person to carry a concealed firearm or is entitled to carry a concealed firearm in the State in which the person resides, may possess or carry a concealed handgun (other than a  machinegun or destructive device) that has been shipped 20 or transported in interstate or foreign commerce, in any State, other than the State of residence of the person..."

 

The bold language is the problem.  It explicitly only applies to resident carry permits, and the law doesn't apply within your own state.  Zero help to us in NJ even if for those with non-resident permits from other states.

 

PDM is 100% correct on this.  The Hudson bill does nothing for NJ residents who do not possess a NJ CCW license.

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Trump is a native New Yorker.  He is intimately aware of the issues surrounding the 2A in New York and across the river here in Jersey.  My guess is that if he really intends on going all the way with a reciprocity bill, he will have us in mind when it hits his desk for a signature or a veto.  The bill needs to explicitly state that a concealed carry license issued by any state, to a resident or non-resident of that state, must be honored by every state, including the permit holder's state of residence.  In effect, this would constitute a federally-issued national CCW license, akin to a national driver's license.

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I am not sure how this would work in NJ:

 

"..... in any other state that permits residents to carry a concealed firearm, in accordance with the restrictions of that state."

 

NJ considers justifiable need as a requirement so it is unknown if another states permit that doesn't require justifiable need would be valid in NJ.

 

It still is short of the 60 votes required in the Senate to pass.

A bill only takes a simple majority to pass. It needs 60 votes for cloture to end a filibuster. Keep in mind Democrat senators from gun friendly states like PA, WV, OH, MT, IN, and others would have to answer to their constituents if they voted against national concealed carry. This wouldn't help the Democrats winning the Senate in 2018. The Democrats may go along with it by not having a filibuster.

 

I think there might be a Constitutional issue if the law allowed NJ residents with a non resident CCW from another state to carry in NJ. Past versions of similar bills stated you had to have a permit from your own state.

 

NJ only has schools, courthouses, and casinos off limits for those that have a CCW now. When, note I say when not if, national CCW reprocity is passed I'm sure NJ will add a lot more off limits places. Bars, gatherings of more than 5 people, banks, supermarkets, and Wal Mart may be some of the new places off limits to CCW.

 

If NJ doesn't adopt some for of CCW I think that would create a problem that existed in FL in the 90s but in reverse. Cretins used to target tourists in FL by the plates on their cars. All rental cars has plates that started with Z at the time. If the bad guys held up someone driving a rental car they probably didn't have a CCW so they had less chance of getting shot by a victim.

 

What would happen if NJ didn't adopt some form of CCW criminals would target people driving cars with NJ plates. They wouldn't want to try holding up someone with PA, OH, or FL plates as they stand a chance of getting shot.

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"Notwithstanding any provision of the law of any  State or political subdivision thereof (except as provided 10 in subsection (b)), a person who is not prohibited by Federal law from possessing, transporting, shipping, or receiving a firearm, who is carrying a valid identification document containing a photograph of the person, and who is carrying a valid license or permit which is issued pursuant to the law of a State and which permits the person to carry a concealed firearm or is entitled to carry a concealed firearm in the State in which the person resides, may possess or carry a concealed handgun (other than a  machinegun or destructive device) that has been shipped 20 or transported in interstate or foreign commerce, in any State, other than the State of residence of the person..."

 

The bold language is the problem.  It explicitly only applies to resident carry permits, and the law doesn't apply within your own state.  Zero help to us in NJ even if for those with non-resident permits from other states.  And if you think the NJ legislature is going to cave on NJ permits to possess in order to raise revenue I have a traffic-jammed bridge to sell you.  NJ will threaten, harrass, detain and incarcerate out of staters with permits and take their chances in court, or just ban carry altogether to remove themselves from the statute.  The state will never, ever back down on this issue.  The only hope now is the renewed, long term hope of Supreme Court relief after (if) Trump appoints two or more 2A friendly justices.  That is going to be a long, long haul.  At least 2-3 years before we have 2 or more new justices.  Then "Drake 2" will need to be filed and wend its way through the courts again and we can then hope that the Supreme Court decides to take the carry case and rule in our favor.  Think 5-10 years.

 

I read the language immediately before the bold type as providing an alternative: "who is carrying a valid license or permit which is issued pursuant to the law of a State and which permits the person to carry a concealed firearm or is entitled to carry a concealed firearm in the State in which the person resides...."  A NJ resident who has FL or UT CCW "is carrying a valid license or permit which is issued pursuant to the law of a State and which permits the person to carry a concealed firearm."  The next clause begins with the word "or" which signifies the alternative ground: having a resident CCW.

 

If NJ is forced by federal law to allow CCW holders from other states to carry in NJ, regardless of what NJ allows for its own residents, what is the point of continued insistence on "justifiable need"?  It may also open NJ to an equal protection challenge by NJ residents.

 

I also agree with GRIZ that 60 Senate votes are only necessary to avoid a filibuster.  However, since the Dems took the nuclear option on filibusters when they had the hammer, except for SCOTUS confirmation votes, the GOP can force a vote if they want to which would be a simple majority.

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You know, you are correct Princetonian.  I think I misread that langugae.  It's either or (the words after the "or" would pick up people in constitutional carry states).  BUT, the subsequent bolded language -- "other than the state of residence of the person" clearly means that reciprocity doesn't apply when you are in your home state of residence, meaning you can't rely on a FL permit in NJ under this statute.

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There are other threads dealing with this issue. I dont think so. You only can buy your gun  in NJ as everyone can buy their guns ONLY in their home state.

The gun has to arrive in NJ by interstate transportation to  fall under this law. Yours does not. The bill is not made to force any state to issue more  permits but to allow those that have it to bring their guns along.

 

Short answer why your statement is incorrect. Your gun already has moved in interstate commerce to get to NJ. That's how the Feds can say you have to buy at a FFL. Even if you buy a new Henry rifle made in NJ you have to buy it from an FFL. That Henry "might" move in interstate commerce.

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 There are other threads dealing with this issue. I dont think so. You only can buy your gun  in NJ as everyone can buy their guns ONLY in their home state.

The gun has to arrive in NJ by interstate transportation to  fall under this law. Yours does not. The bill is not made to force any state to issue more  permits but to allow those that have it to bring their guns along.  

 

 

Really? Everyone let that slide? Well, I'm not going to...

 

I have not purchased a single firearm in the state of NJ. Sure I've had a few pistols transferred to me by FFL's in NJ, as the law requires, but were purchased from out of state retailers. Every long gun I own was also purchased out of state, with the background check and transfer completed in the states where I bought them.

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Really? Everyone let that slide? Well, I'm not going to...

 

I have not purchased a single firearm in the state of NJ. Sure I've had a few pistols transferred to me by FFL's in NJ, as the law requires, but were purchased from out of state retailers. Every long gun I own was also purchased out of state, with the background check and transfer completed in the states where I bought them.

 well thats what I meant, You only can take possession of the gun in your state.   Come to Fl and buy a gun at a gun dealer, or PA. It wont happen .( you can buy it but cannot take possession of it)

My theory was that once I had the weapon it has to arrive to NJ by Interstate travel in order for my CCW to be recognized in NJ. It might be wrong as others pointed out. I wish you good luck, not in a sarcastic way, with getting your CCw in NJ or an outside one that NJ will recognize it.

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See the part in red.

Since our State DOES prohibit the carrying for Lawful Purposes, maybe we do get in with an out of state.

(We can only carry for Justifiable Need)

 

Pardon the sloppy cut and paste.

 

State or political subdivision thereof (except as provided
in subsection (b)), a person who is not prohibited by Federal law from possessing, transporting, shipping, or receiving a firearm, who is carrying a valid identification document containing a photograph of the person, and who is carrying a valid license or permit which is issued pursuant
to the law of a State and which permits the person to
carry a concealed firearm or is entitled to carry a concealed firearm in the State in which the person resides,
may possess or carry a concealed handgun (other than a
machinegun or destructive device) that has been shipped
or transported in interstate or foreign commerce, in any
State, other than the State of residence of the person,
that—
‘‘(1) has a statute under which residents of the
State may apply for a license or permit to carry a
concealed firearm; or
‘(2) does not prohibit the carrying of concealed
firearms by residents of the State for lawful purposes.
 
 

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‘(2) does not prohibit the carrying of concealed

firearms by residents of the State for lawful purposes.

 

Doesn't NJ consider justifiable need as the lawful purpose?

 

I am guessing I have more likelihood of moving to PA to carry than waiting for NJ to give in to this!

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 well thats what I meant, You only can take possession of the gun in your state.   Come to Fl and buy a gun at a gun dealer, or PA. It wont happen .( you can buy it but cannot take possession of it)

 

May an unlicensed person acquire a firearm under the GCA in any State?
 
"Generally, a person may only acquire a firearm within the person’s own State. Exceptions include the acquisition pursuant to a lawful bequest, or an over–the–counter acquisition of a rifle or shotgun from a licensee where the transaction is allowed by the purchaser’s State of residence and the licensee’s State of business. A person may borrow or rent a firearm in any State for temporary use for lawful sporting purposes."
 
NJ requires that you and the seller fill out a COE.

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