Princetonian58 53 Posted January 15, 2017 Heard Scott Bach on GFH Radio today and he was his usual cautious self regarding the current bill. While he also reads it as providing two way reciprocity that would allow NJ residents to carry on a Florida nonresident permit, he seems not to want this. First he claims it cannot overcome a Democratic filibuster with 60 votes. This ignores that the Senate when Democratic controlled invoked the nuclear option for votes except confirmation of a SCOTUS nominee. Republicans can and will follow suit. Second, he seems to think it's unconstitutional in any event. However, before SCOTUS could hold the reciprocity law unconstitutional, it would first have to declare there is no 2nd Amendment right to carry outside the home. Because if that right exists, then a statute that ensures states cannot deny that fundamental right to citizens of other states when in NJ, for example, would have to prevail over a NJ law to the contrary. Bach clearly wants to play the long game rather than take on the recalcitrant states. 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zeke 5,504 Posted January 15, 2017 I'm sorry. Not a a fan of Scott. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Darrenf 422 Posted January 15, 2017 However, before SCOTUS could hold the reciprocity law unconstitutional, it would first have to declare there is no 2nd Amendment right to carry outside the home.Unless the reciprocity law specifically states that this is to secure the 2nd Amendment guarantee of carry outside the home, your statement is incorrect. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
njJoniGuy 2,129 Posted January 16, 2017 Rep. Donald Norcross would sooner castrate himself with rusty garden shears than co-sponsor any pro-2A bill 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Princetonian58 53 Posted January 16, 2017 Unless the reciprocity law specifically states that this is to secure the 2nd Amendment guarantee of carry outside the home, your statement is incorrect. How so? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DeerSlayer 241 Posted January 16, 2017 Easier but not sure about cheaper as I don't know what Fl costs. Nh is $100. All you have to do is fill out their application and send it in.Florida is $114 for 5 years, NH is $100 for 4 years. But add in to FL the cost of live fire training if you don't already have that, and prints and photo plus notary on the application, and I think NH comes out on top as a better bargain. 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DeerSlayer 241 Posted January 16, 2017 Viewed it a couple times. In NJ we're still screwed. Like Sig226GuyNJ said, watch between 30 sec to 1 minute.Read this article! Hudson is aware of our NJ situation, and he has wording in the bill that covers non resident permits. http://freebeacon.com/issues/national-reciprocity-bill-will-apply-non-resident-gun-carry-permits/ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Darrenf 422 Posted January 16, 2017 How so?Because states wouldn't challenge the law on 2nd amendment grounds. Also the court has never stated the 2nd amendment gives you the right to carry outside the home. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Princetonian58 53 Posted January 16, 2017 Because states wouldn't challenge the law on 2nd amendment grounds. Also the court has never stated the 2nd amendment gives you the right to carry outside the home. I understand that SCOTUS hasn't decided whether the 2nd Amendment protects the right to carry outside the home. But my point is that such a right would be asserted in defense of the Hudson law when challenged by an anti-gun state/group. If that right exists, then the statute by definition protects and implements a fundamental right which trumps the state's right argument, not unlike how the recognition of gay marriage by SCOTUS forced state laws barring it to yield. I just don't see SCOTUS saying, even assuming the 2nd Amendment protects the right to carry outside the home, the Hudson reciprocity law is nonetheless unconstitutional on states' rights grounds. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sig226GuyNJ 128 Posted January 16, 2017 Because states wouldn't challenge the law on 2nd amendment grounds. Also the court has never stated the 2nd amendment gives you the right to carry outside the home. I understand that SCOTUS hasn't decided whether the 2nd Amendment protects the right to carry outside the home. But my point is that such a right would be asserted in defense of the Hudson law when challenged by an anti-gun state/group. If that right exists, then the statute by definition protects and implements a fundamental right which trumps the state's right argument, not unlike how the recognition of gay marriage by SCOTUS forced state laws barring it to yield. I just don't see SCOTUS saying, even assuming the 2nd Amendment protects the right to carry outside the home, the Hudson reciprocity law is nonetheless unconstitutional on states' rights grounds. I "think" this is what Princetonian is talking about. This article does bring up some valid concerns of this bill. https://bearingarms.com/bob-o/2017/01/04/the-good-and-bad-of-the-concealed-carry-reciprocity-act/ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Indianajonze 379 Posted January 17, 2017 this 10th amendment defense is bs and is beginning to piss me off. once more, for the final time, a state cannot exercise its 10th amendment right to restrict a fundamental right recognized by the other 9 amendments. so, if tomorrow the great state of new jersey decided that all speech critical of loretta weinberg is illegal and punishable by jail, they cannot stand on the 10th amendment to defend such a position. if nj tomorrow passes a law or resolution stating that police can pull over every 10th vehicle on rt 80, seize the vehicle and arrest the driver with no crime having been committed, are they able to argue they can because of the 10th amendment? what's the difference with the 2nd amendment? let's not be ridiculous here. the damn thing says i have the right to keep and bear arms. bear arms. as in, to carry. and shall not be infringed to boot. the reciprocity act simply clarifies this right as it pertains to interstate travel, something the federal government is well within its right to do 2 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnnyB 4,289 Posted January 17, 2017 ^^^^^THIS^^^^^ As I stated earlier, we will be carrying in NJ within 6 months! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
capt14k 2,051 Posted January 17, 2017 Indianajonze is right on this one. States have no right to claim reciprocity law violates State's 10th Amendment Rights when they are trying to violate our 2nd Amendment Rights. As for Scott Bach I don't know enough about him, but it sounds like he is worried more about job security than 2A Rights in NJ. If the Blue Dog Democrats and those on the hot seat in 2 years in states like the Dakota's don't vote for the law they can kiss their re-election chances goodbye. Since the Republicans will use the nuclear option anyways if they refuse to break rank they will be committing political suicide and it will be pointless. Once the Communist States Challenge the Law I think SCOTUS will fast track it and by a 5-4 vote decide that Keep and Bear means Own and Carry and they will rule Unconstitutional many of the draconian laws States like NJ and CA have implemented. Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zeke 5,504 Posted January 17, 2017 2a rights is big business in NJ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
68chris 20 Posted January 17, 2017 128 co-sponsors, 2 of which are D Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
M1Thumb 30 Posted January 17, 2017 this 10th amendment defense is bs and is beginning to piss me off. once more, for the final time, a state cannot exercise its 10th amendment right to restrict a fundamental right recognized by the other 9 amendments. so, if tomorrow the great state of new jersey decided that all speech critical of loretta weinberg is illegal and punishable by jail, they cannot stand on the 10th amendment to defend such a position. if nj tomorrow passes a law or resolution stating that police can pull over every 10th vehicle on rt 80, seize the vehicle and arrest the driver with no crime having been committed, are they able to argue they can because of the 10th amendment? what's the difference with the 2nd amendment? let's not be ridiculous here. the damn thing says i have the right to keep and bear arms. bear arms. as in, to carry. and shall not be infringed to boot. the reciprocity act simply clarifies this right as it pertains to interstate travel, something the federal government is well within its right to do You really think NJ, NY, MD, and other states are just going to magically roll over and say, "Oh I guess the 2A really means that our people can carry!" Please. Optimism is a good thing, but don't be naive. There's an army of attorneys out there ready to fight tooth and nail against this thing.. Even if they lose and we win, it will take months or years to get there. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
capt14k 2,051 Posted January 17, 2017 You really think NJ, NY, MD, and other states are just going to magically roll over and say, "Oh I guess the 2A really means that our people can carry!" Please. Optimism is a good thing, but don't be naive. There's an army of attorneys out there ready to fight tooth and nail against this thing.. Even if they lose and we win, it will take months or years to get there.Wrong SCOTUS can fast track like they did Bush v Gore Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zeke 5,504 Posted January 17, 2017 128 co-sponsors, 2 of which are DLol. Of the 24 republican on the house judiciary committee. 12 are co-sponsor Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zeke 5,504 Posted January 17, 2017 That's great !! Trey Gowdy HATES gun control .... Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk He's also a co sponsor. I'll bet this makes it out of the subcommittee Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sig226GuyNJ 128 Posted January 17, 2017 ^^^^^THIS^^^^^ As I stated earlier, we will be carrying in NJ within 6 months! I wish I could be as confident as you are, but I'll believe it when I see it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zeke 5,504 Posted January 17, 2017 I wish I could be as confident as you are, but I'll believe it when I see it.Try to look outside the jersey"box". Majority of other states and their respective residents ( both D,R and I) don't even remotely think the same way as Nj residents , when it comes to 2a.We've been boiled here slowly. There will be a fight, of this I have no doubt. 2 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Cereza 106 Posted January 17, 2017 Try to look outside the jersey"box". Majority of other states and their respective residents ( both D,R and I) don't even remotely think the same way as Nj residents , when it comes to 2a. We've been boiled here slowly. There will be a fight, of this I have no doubt. ^^^This.^^^ (emphasis mine) The last thing states that offer Constitutional Carry or otherwise sensible licensing want is for the Federal Government to involve itself further in firearms regulation. 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Fred2 367 Posted January 17, 2017 I think that many of the other states are tired of THEIR citizens getting screwed over by states like NJ and NY. This is their way of telling us to screw off. It just so happens, that is working toward our benefit. 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zeke 5,504 Posted January 17, 2017 I think that many of the other states are tired of THEIR citizens getting screwed over by states like NJ and NY. This is their way of telling us to screw off. It just so happens, that is working toward our benefit. The point is, we are citizens under the constitution regardless of our zip code. 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zeke 5,504 Posted January 17, 2017 Hmmmn on that thought Going optimist. What works for a constitutional carry state resident? He's dl or pass port? Sewer bill claiming residency etc Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Indianajonze 379 Posted January 17, 2017 You really think NJ, NY, MD, and other states are just going to magically roll over and say, "Oh I guess the 2A really means that our people can carry!" Please. Optimism is a good thing, but don't be naive. There's an army of attorneys out there ready to fight tooth and nail against this thing.. Even if they lose and we win, it will take months or years to get there.No, I've said before I expect a few states to challenge, but they will (should?) lose. This is a huge issue. Not sure it will take months or years to be settled. We'll see Sent from my Nexus 6P Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zeke 5,504 Posted January 17, 2017 No, I've said before I expect a few states to challenge, but they will (should?) lose. This is a huge issue. Not sure it will take months or years to be settled. We'll see Sent from my Nexus 6P Huge issue is an understatement. If you step back and take a look at that wall this bill will break. It's majestic. Like rilly big deal This is about governed vs the governor Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jcc 6 Posted January 18, 2017 Hmmmn on that thought Going optimist. What works for a constitutional carry state resident? He's dl or pass port? Sewer bill claiming residency etc As per 27CFR 478.11, maintaining a home in another state makes you a resident of that state as well as your home state. NJ is my home state but I also own a cabin in NYS where I "reside" on weekends in the summer. Because of that I was able to get a resident unrestricted carry permit in NYS. Question is, will that allow me to carry in NJ under the Carry Reciprocity Act?? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
68chris 20 Posted January 18, 2017 read the bill. very easy reading Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnnyB 4,289 Posted January 18, 2017 As per 27CFR 478.11, maintaining a home in another state makes you a resident of that state as well as your home state. NJ is my home state but I also own a cabin in NYS where I "reside" on weekends in the summer. Because of that I was able to get a resident unrestricted carry permit in NYS. Question is, will that allow me to carry in NJ under the Carry Reciprocity Act?? Simple answer.......If passed as written, YES! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites