Concealed Carry Reciprocity Act of 2017 Hudson, NC

[Zeke 5,504]

7 minutes ago, jackandjill said:

Does this new/additional bill "mandate" States participate in the new program ? How is that mandate enforced ? By lawsuit against State ? Or is it tied to additional money incentive ?

Read the bill..

[Mrs. Peel 7,157]

23 hours ago, WP22 said:

https://www.facebook.com/RepThomasMassie/posts/1843059172384905

"As Chairman of the Second Amendment Caucus, I’m blowing the whistle on the swamp. Last week, Republicans in the House fast tracked through committee HR 4477, a gun bill titled “fix-NICS.” The Senate version of this bill is cosponsored by Senator Dianne Feintstein and Senator Chuck Schumer and it will send $625 million over 5 years to states to expand the national background check database. The bill will also advance former President Obama’s agenda of pressuring every branch of the administration (such as the Veteran’s Administration) to submit thousands of more names to the NICS background check database to deny gun purchases. The House bill is identical in every way to the Senate bill except the House bill will also commission a study on bump-stocks.

What you don’t know, and what virtually no one in Washington wants you to know, is that House leadership plans to merge the fix-NICS bill with popular Concealed Carry Reciprocity legislation, HR 38, and pass both of them with a single vote. Folks, this is how the swamp works. House leadership expects constituents to call their representatives demanding a vote on the reciprocity bill, when in fact the only vote will be on the two combined bills..."

Read the whole thing.

According to the article at this link - http://freebeacon.com/issues/house-vote-national-gun-carry-reciprocity-background-check-fix-bill-week/ the 2 bills, Concealed Carry Reciprocity and Fix NICS, have indeed been combined into 1 bill. Honestly, I see nothing objectionable in the Fix NICS section (Article II) as written - a quick scan reveals it sets tougher requirements on agencies to report what they're supposed to be reporting anyway! It also provides penalties (like a little public embarrassment, withholding overtime funds, etc.) if they're not in compliance. The article cites that the Fix NICS section has bi-partisan support (including support by the NRA and NSSF).

Of course, the devil is in the details --- let's see if they try to add stuff in to weaken the reciprocity part. Also, it needs to pass the House then ALSO the harder part of getting 60 votes in the Senate. That's when we'll all need to do another round of calls/emails.

Anyway, the article has a direct link out to the current bill... if you have insomnia tonight and need an effective cure....

[ChrisJM981 924]

I though only 51 votes are needed? Something about the "nuclear option" can of worms opened by Harry Reid...

[WP22 1,558]

28 minutes ago, Mrs. Peel said:

According to the article at this link - http://freebeacon.com/issues/house-vote-national-gun-carry-reciprocity-background-check-fix-bill-week/ the 2 bills, Concealed Carry Reciprocity and Fix NICS, have indeed been combined into 1 bill. Honestly, I see nothing objectionable in the Fix NICS section (Article II) as written - a quick scan reveals it sets tougher requirements on agencies to report what they're supposed to be reporting anyway! It also provides penalties (like a little public embarrassment, withholding overtime funds, etc.) if they're not in compliance. The article cites that the Fix NICS section has bi-partisan support (including support by the NRA and NSSF).

Of course, the devil is in the details --- let's see if they try to add stuff in to weaken the reciprocity part. Also, it needs to pass the House then ALSO the harder part of getting 60 votes in the Senate. That's when we'll all need to do another round of calls/emails.

Anyway, the article has a direct link out to the current bill... if you have insomnia tonight and need an effective cure....

And the GOA condemns HR4477

[Mrs. Peel 7,157]

18 minutes ago, WP22 said:

And the GOA condemns HR4477

Thanks! I didn't know that. Yeah, I now see that GOA is taking a hardline attitude that NICS shouldn't exist at all. Here's a couple of links with GOA's position if anyone is interested in reading:

https://www.gunowners.org/news113017.htm 

https://www.gunowners.org/goa-opposes-nics-fix.htm

 

[1LtCAP 4,262]

4 hours ago, supranatural said:

We go through all this but all it makes it is legal for us to have a firearm in our home, our business, at the gun shop/smith, at the range and travel in between.  Anything else we are felons.  Concealed carry remedies a large part of this by allowing us to carry wherever not prohibited specifically.  At the moment, we are essentially prohibited from having a pistol/firearm EVERYWHERE in NJ except where they specifically permit us to (see above list).  Concealed Carry reverses that so that we can carry EVERYWHERE except where specifically prohibited (which might be schools, bars, etc).

Yeah we give up something - the fix NICS but so what?  We have nothing now and to be honest, I think we should have a stronger NICS system.  If you're not a felon, you have little to worry about.  Gun control isn't going away, that ship has sailed just as the anti-gunners are not getting 300 million guns banned either as that ship has sailed too.

this is a scary/bad thought. i get where you're coming from......but....it's the same as saying "if you're not doing anything wrong then you've got nothing to worry about" when it comes to unwarranted searches. then theres the people mistakenly put on watch lists......

3 hours ago, Downtownv said:

I agree. Who ever crafted NJ laws did so in such a way the SAF, NRA NJ2AS none of them can crack it!

So If HR 38 allows us to carry then bring it! If other states get to ratchet up their laws, let those gun owners fight them, they've never rallied  behind us...

wrongo. they all could've cracked it IF they wanted to.

[1LtCAP 4,262]

37 minutes ago, Mrs. Peel said:

Thanks! I didn't know that. Yeah, I now see that GOA is taking a hardline attitude that NICS shouldn't exist at all. Here's a couple of links with GOA's position if anyone is interested in reading:

https://www.gunowners.org/news113017.htm 

https://www.gunowners.org/goa-opposes-nics-fix.htm

 

i'm gonna get flamed for this......

 

they are 100% correct that it shouldn't exist at all. it is VERY simple. if you trust someone to walk amongst yourself and those you care about, then you should be able to trust them with pretty much any tool(in this case a firearm). if you can't trust them with a firearm, then they should not be walking amongst us. it really IS that simple.

[JohnnyB 4,322]

The marriage of the two bills is a strategy by the Republicans and I am sure the NRA. There are some here that dig in their heels and fully expect to gain with absolutely no give. This is 2017 and we live in one of the worst states for gun rights and unfortunately it's about to get much worse really fast!

As Mrs. Peel stated above....

"Honestly, I see nothing objectionable in the Fix NICS section (Article II) as written - a quick scan reveals it sets tougher requirements on agencies to report what they're supposed to be reporting anyway! It also provides penalties (like a little public embarrassment, withholding overtime funds, etc.) if they're not in compliance. The article cites that the Fix NICS section has bi-partisan support (including support by the NRA and NSSF)."

I agree and the only hope we have in the Senate is to make some of the Dems think we are giving up something to get something. CCW is within our reach here for the first time in almost 80 years. Even with "Fix NICS" we still need to pray and contact our lawmakers and tell them how you expect them to vote as YOUR representatives!

[carl_g 568]

3 hours ago, EX Carnival man said:

NW Cape Coral. Very quiet up in the North West Cape .Its close to Charlotte Harbor nature preserve   I need to keep the house here in NJ too while we still have Dairy Queen, but at least we now have an exit plan.  I hope to spend A LOT of time in Florida. 

Nice. I go to boca grande a couple times a year. I do a lot of fishing in charolette harbor but more towards the pass. I can't wait to get down there around Easter time. Congrats!

[1LtCAP 4,262]

4 minutes ago, JohnnyB said:

The marriage of the two bills is a strategy by the Republicans and I am sure the NRA. There are some here that dig in their heels and fully expect to gain with absolutely no give. This is 2017 and we live in one of the worst states for gun rights and unfortunately it's about to get much worse really fast!

As Mrs. Peel stated above....

"Honestly, I see nothing objectionable in the Fix NICS section (Article II) as written - a quick scan reveals it sets tougher requirements on agencies to report what they're supposed to be reporting anyway! It also provides penalties (like a little public embarrassment, withholding overtime funds, etc.) if they're not in compliance. The article cites that the Fix NICS section has bi-partisan support (including support by the NRA and NSSF)."

I agree and the only hope we have in the Senate is to make some of the Dems think we are giving up something to get something. CCW is within our reach here for the first time in almost 80 years. Even with "Fix NICS" we still need to pray and contact our lawmakers and tell them how you expect them to vote as YOUR representatives!

we have gotten to this point by "giving".

[WP22 1,558]

As far as I can tell we have been giving a little since 1927 and what have we gotten?

At some point enough should be enough. Besides a scorpion will always behave as such; it's its nature.

https://www.thoughtco.com/us-gun-control-timeline-3963620

 

 

 

 

 

[JohnnyB 4,322]

Face it, it's 2017 and we are outnumbered. Give nothing and get nothing. everything stays as it was.  We have the chance at a small step back for a giant leap forward! Your choice!

[WP22 1,558]

With 52 senators + Pence and 239 representatives how are we outnumbered? 

Regardless, this give something to get something, it never fails at the end of the day to be give something and get nothing. 

Moreover, this give something to get something, will get one democrat vote-Manchin from WV-at most.

Do you think Schummer or Boxer will vote for this joined bill? Only, and if only, they believe the HR38 will not survive judicial scrutiny-which may not btw- and if HR447 will-which most certainly will. 

EDIT--I think you are missing the point. You keep saying we had to give up something. We didn't, we chose to.

[JohnnyB 4,322]

You know what....In the end, it does not matter what we say or what we want on this or any forum. We are not in control! 

[1LtCAP 4,262]

1 hour ago, WP22 said:

As far as I can tell we have been giving a little since 1927 and what have we gotten?

At some point enough should be enough. Besides a scorpion will always behave as such; it's its nature.

https://www.thoughtco.com/us-gun-control-timeline-3963620

 

 

 

 

 

we've gotten to not be allowed to defend ourselves outside our homes, we've gotten to worry constantly about if we're allowed to take a piss or crap on the way to the range, we've gotten to wait anywhere from 30 days to nearly a year to be allowed to buy a pistol.

[ChrisJM981 924]

1 hour ago, 1LtCAP said:

this is a scary/bad thought. i get where you're coming from......but....it's the same as saying "if you're not doing anything wrong then you've got nothing to worry about" when it comes to unwarranted searches. then theres the people mistakenly put on watch lists......

wrongo. they all could've cracked it IF they wanted to.

Due process? Who needs that?

Everyone needs a bogeyman for fundraising.

[CAL. .30 M1 2,101]

Do we really think things a chance in the Senate....?  Not trying to be negative or argumentative but I don't see it.

 

If this cannot get done now....i think ccw might be harder and harder to keep alive.

[OchoBlue 3]

Support it or not, bottom line is people in NJ gain if the combined bill goes through and people in Free America lose as they will now be subjected to more "common sense' gun regulation.

As someone pointed out most everything in fixNICS is already applicable to NJ residents, so no loss there.  If NJ residents can now protect themselves outside their homes with a FLA or Utah CCW it is a net gain.

People in Free America gain only if for some strange reason the want to visit NJ (sarcasm).

Im sure the residents of Free America will not be happy with this 'trade' and will want NJ residents to 'get their own house in order'. 

As someone else pointed out other than contacting our legislators (which in most cases) has minimal effect what we say on this forum won't affect the outcome or whether they combine the bills...

No matter what the outcome, it is the closest NJ residents have come to having some of their rights restored since Drake and Perutta...

 

 

[NJGF 375]

Does anyone really want to support a bill that is embraced by Chuck and Diane. We need to be patient. Unfortunately that could take our lifetimes. But it is not worth going down a rabbit hole not knowing where it is leading. NICS can be fixed without any new legislation.

We should support H.R. 38 as a standalone bill. If we don't have the votes yet then so be it. Don't vote for any politician that didn't support it. Call and/or contact your representative in the House today.

And if we want to be free we should leave NJ (I know it is not so easily done because of family and jobs).

[supranatural 66]

7 hours ago, OchoBlue said:

 

People in Free America gain only if for some strange reason the want to visit NJ (sarcasm).

Im sure the residents of Free America will not be happy with this 'trade' and will want NJ residents to 'get their own house in order'. 

As someone else pointed out other than contacting our legislators (which in most cases) has minimal effect what we say on this forum won't affect the outcome or whether they combine the bills...

No matter what the outcome, it is the closest NJ residents have come to having some of their rights restored since Drake and Perutta...

 

 

It's not just if people in Free America want to visit NJ.  Try NY, CT, DC, CA, etc.  And an end to patchwork quilt of regulations in many ways.  I hate it when I drive down to FL and I get to put on my piston, then in North Carolina I need to put it in the glove box and when I cross into South Carolina I can once again retrieve it from my glove box.  Ridiculous.

43 minutes ago, NJGF said:

Does anyone really want to support a bill that is embraced by Chuck and Diane. We need to be patient. Unfortunately that could take our lifetimes. But it is not worth going down a rabbit hole not knowing where it is leading. NICS can be fixed without any new legislation.

We should support H.R. 38 as a standalone bill. If we don't have the votes yet then so be it. Don't vote for any politician that didn't support it. Call and/or contact your representative in the House today.

And if we want to be free we should leave NJ (I know it is not so easily done because of family and jobs).

So if they do combine the two bills, what will you suggest we do?  Call our representatives and tell them to vote against it, and wait another decade or two in the hopes that a similar bill without the NICS provision gets out of the judiciary committee?

The number of negative people in here continue to amaze me.  No wonder Murphy is the new governor...

Yes I will support a NICS bill if it gets me concealed carry.  NICS is here to stay and like our 300 million guns it's not going away unless you split the country into two - the dems and republicans (to paint it simply).

Edited December 5, 2017 by supranatural
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[Zeke 5,504]

http://docs.house.gov/billsthisweek/20171204/BILLS-115HR38-RCP115-45.xml

heres the text of hr38 and hr4477

[OchoBlue 3]

NJ.com doesn't seem to like the legislation ?

 

;-)    From NJ.com   "House Republicans seek to weaken N.J. gun control after Las Vegas, Texas massacres "

[voyager9 3,434]

NJ.com is a wet turd.  Trying to conflate this bill with Vegas.  

[ChrisJM981 924]

2 hours ago, supranatural said:

It's not just if people in Free America want to visit NJ.  Try NY, CT, DC, CA, etc.  And an end to patchwork quilt of regulations in many ways.  I hate it when I drive down to FL and I get to put on my piston, then in North Carolina I need to put it in the glove box and when I cross into South Carolina I can once again retrieve it from my glove box.  Ridiculous.

The law only honors other permits. All state laws concerning the method of carry for a CCW holder still apply.

[ChrisJM981 924]

The vote will be tomorrow. Click FIND YOUR REP HERE to determine your representative, please contact him or her, and ask your rep to vote for HR 38. 

[supranatural 66]

14 minutes ago, ChrisJM981 said:

The law only honors other permits. All state laws concerning the method of carry for a CCW holder still apply.

You don't seem to understand how this all works.

The reason I have to wait till I am out of the DC area to put on my carry gun, and then put it in the glovebox when I hit South Carolina (I mistakenly wrote North Carolina before), is that they don't recognize either of my CCW permits.  If we had reciprocity, I would not have to put my carry pistol into the glove box.  Having reciprocity means I can put on my carry gun in my IWB holster, hop in my car and drive all the way to Florida or California or any other state and not have to go through hoops and hijinks putting my car in gloveboxes, or storage box in the trunk of my car or back of my truck, every time I cross a hostile state (i.e., one that does not recognize my Utah or Florida permits).

Unless you're privy to info I'm not aware of...are SC resident permit holders required to put their guns in their gloveboxes of their cars even though they have a SC CCW?  Cause that's the only way reciprocity would still have me putting my gun into the glovebox in SC...

[Zeke 5,504]

1 minute ago, supranatural said:

You don't seem to understand how this all works.

The reason I have to wait till I am out of the DC area to put on my carry gun, and then put it in the glovebox when I hit South Carolina (I mistakenly wrote North Carolina before), is that they don't recognize either of my CCW permits.  If we had reciprocity, I would not have to put my carry pistol into the glove box.  Having reciprocity means I can put on my carry gun in my IWB holster, hop in my car and drive all the way to Florida or California or any other state and not have to go through hoops and hijinks putting my car in gloveboxes, or storage box in the trunk of my car or back of my truck, every time I cross a hostile state (i.e., one that does not recognize my Utah or Florida permits).

Correct. But prohited places still need to be observed instate respectively. In addition to mag limits and ammunition types.

What are N.J. carry laws?

searching...

[supranatural 66]

10 minutes ago, Zeke said:

Correct. But prohited places still need to be observed instate respectively. In addition to mag limits and ammunition types.

What are N.J. carry laws?

searching...

EVERY state has prohibited places.  In FL I can't carry in places that serve alcohol, I can't carry on college campuses or in schools.  But again, this is the critical point - in most states you are permitted to have a firearm except for certain prohibited places.  In NJ you are not allowed to have a firearm EVERYWHERE except for certain PERMISSIBLE places (your home, business, range, gunsmith, travel to these points...).  It's reversed in NJ, this essentially reverses us to where everyone else is.  It means I can walk off my property with a concealed permit and not be a felon.  So what if you can't carry in a school - don't go to school then!

People need to understand firearm laws and principles better before bashing this concealed carry bill.  

Again, if you don't like this bill, please feel free to call your local representative to tell them vote against it.  It continues to amaze me how many people here want to shoot themselves in the foot and complain about the best piece of legislation to come down the pike in over a decade!

Edited December 5, 2017 by supranatural
update

[Zeke 5,504]

16 minutes ago, supranatural said:

EVERY state has prohibited places.  In FL I can't carry in places that serve alcohol, I can't carry on college campuses or in schools.  But again, this is the critical point - in most states you are permitted to have a firearm except for certain prohibited places.  In NJ you are not allowed to have a firearm EVERYWHERE except for certain PERMISSIBLE places (your home, business, range, gunsmith, travel to these points...).  It's reversed in NJ, this essentially reverses us to where everyone else is.  It means I can walk off my property with a concealed permit and not be a felon.  So what if you can't carry in a school - don't go to school then!

People need to understand firearm laws and principles better before bashing this concealed carry bill.  

Again, if you don't like this bill, please feel free to call your local representative to tell them vote against it.  It continues to amaze me how many people here want to shoot themselves in the foot and complain about the best piece of legislation to come down the pike in over a decade!

Where did you get that from what I posted?

having trouble finding information for prohibited places in N.J. for licensed N.J. CCW holders, currently.

[NJGF 375]

4 minutes ago, Zeke said:

having trouble finding information for prohibited places in N.J. for licensed N.J. CCW holders, currently.

According to the CCW app you can't carry in educational institutions and Casino's.

If one is traveling between a bunch of states then make sure they allow the # of rounds in your mags. For example CT is 10 and NJ is 15 (until January when it goes to 3-4 ;-)