Concealed Carry Reciprocity Act of 2017 Hudson, NC

[Zeke 5,504]

2 minutes ago, NJGF said:

According to the CCW app you can't carry in educational institutions and Casino's.

If one is traveling between a bunch of states then make sure they allow the # of rounds in your mags. For example CT is 10 and NJ is 15 (until January when it goes to 3-4 ;-)

Nothing about establishments that serve alcohol?

[NJGF 375]

16 minutes ago, Zeke said:

Nothing about establishments that serve alcohol?

They didn't have anything but...I could swear that I saw that open carry was legal in NJ (with a CCW) but the app says it is illegal. If it is on the internet it must be true though.

[Zeke 5,504]

1 minute ago, NJGF said:

They didn't have anything but...I could swear that I saw that open carry was legal in NJ (with a CCW) but the app says it is illegal. If it is on the internet it must be true though.

Lol! Thank you for the info you provided.

[NJGF 375]

So I just saw a photo of a NJ CCW (assuming it is real) and the title says "License To Carry A Firearm Concealed". So it might not be in the law but the permit seems to make open carry illegal.

[ChrisJM981 924]

1 hour ago, supranatural said:

Unless you're privy to info I'm not aware of...are SC resident permit holders required to put their guns in their gloveboxes of their cars even though they have a SC CCW?  Cause that's the only way reciprocity would still have me putting my gun into the glovebox in SC...

I'm not informed on their carry laws. You as the the CCW holder are responsible for following the laws for a CCW holder in each individual state, therefore it is still a patchwork. There is no federal standard, i.e. If one state requires you to declare to a LEO that you're carrying, you must follow that state law. If SC allows you to carry on your person with a CCW, then you wouldn't have to put it in the glovebox. 

Again, you are required to be in compliance with the CCW laws of the State you are traveling through. 

[Mrs. Peel 7,157]

WARNING - WARNING - WALL 'O TEXT COMIN' ATCHA!! (I including citations so people don't need to look them up).

OK, I hate to beat a dead horse... and I realize I'm NOT a lawyer, but I just don't see that the "Fix NICS" section would open anyone up any new areas of abuse or overreach. If that Congressman Massie (or others) have concerns, I wish they would spell out their arguments better. Here's the text of the proposed law: 

“(G) IMPLEMENTATION PLAN.—

“(i) IN GENERAL.—Not later than 1 year after the date of enactment of this subparagraph, the head of each Federal department or agency, in coordination with the Attorney General, shall establish a plan to ensure maximum coordination and automated reporting or making available of records to the Attorney General as required under subparagraph (C), and the verification of the accuracy of those records, including the pre-validation of those records, where appropriate, during a 4-year period specified in the plan. The head of each Federal department or agency shall update the plan biennially, to the extent necessary, based on the most recent biennial assessment under subparagraph (K). The records shall be limited to those of an individual described in subsection (g) or (n) of section 922 of title 18, United States Code.

So, for the sake of argument - if you dig deeper and you pull those 2 sections from Title 18, section 922 (I did, and they appear below)... those are the sections of law that describe people who are already prohibited from owning guns (e.g., serious crimes, fugitives, adjudicated mental defective/committed, subject to restraining orders, dishonorable discharges, etc. etc.) This is NOTHING NEW!! And the reporting requirements are clearly limited to these situations. 

So, if some groups want to be hardline and say "there shouldn't be a NICS at all" - well, that's an argument they can certainly make... one that may have some merit.  But if Congress keeps the wording in this proposed law intact, I do NOT see - as some have implied - that it will open up abuses like "new categories" of people to deny 2A rights to without due process. I just don't see it. The wording clearly limits it to people who fall under the existing definition provided in those 2 subsections of Title 18 *below):

>>>>(g) It shall be unlawful for any person—

(1)

who has been convicted in any court of, a crime punishable by imprisonment for a term exceeding one year;

(2)

who is a fugitive from justice;

(3)

who is an unlawful user of or addicted to any controlled substance (as defined in section 102 of the Controlled Substances Act (21 U.S.C. 802));

(4)

who has been adjudicated as a mental defective or who has been committed to a mental institution;

(5) who, being an alien—

(A)

is illegally or unlawfully in the United States; or

(B)

except as provided in subsection (y)(2), has been admitted to the United States under a nonimmigrant visa (as that term is defined in section 101(a)(26) of the Immigration and Nationality Act (8 U.S.C. 1101(a)(26)));

(6)

who has been discharged from the Armed Forces under dishonorable conditions;

(7)

who, having been a citizen of the United States, has renounced his citizenship;

(8) who is subject to a court order that—

(A)

was issued after a hearing of which such person received actual notice, and at which such person had an opportunity to participate;

(B)

restrains such person from harassing, stalking, or threatening an intimate partner of such person or child of such intimate partner or person, or engaging in other conduct that would place an intimate partner in reasonable fear of bodily injury to the partner or child; and

(C)

(i)

includes a finding that such person represents a credible threat to the physical safety of such intimate partner or child; or

(ii)

by its terms explicitly prohibits the use, attempted use, or threatened use of physical force against such intimate partner or child that would reasonably be expected to cause bodily injury; or

(9)

who has been convicted in any court of a misdemeanor crime of domestic violence,

to ship or transport in interstate or foreign commerce, or possess in or affecting commerce, any firearm or ammunition; or to receive any firearm or ammunition which has been shipped or transported in interstate or foreign commerce.

>>>>>>(n) It shall be unlawful for any person who is under indictment for a crime punishable by imprisonment for a term exceeding one year to ship or transport in interstate or foreign commerce any firearm or ammunition or receive any firearm or ammunition which has been shipped or transported in interstate or foreign commerce.

I REST MY CASE!!! 

[ChrisJM981 924]

Just now, NJGF said:

So I just saw a photo of a NJ CCW (assuming it is real) and the title says "License To Carry A Firearm Concealed". So it might not be in the law but the permit seems to make open carry illegal.

NJ doesn't differentiate between open and concealed carry. Why bother writing seperate laws when permits aren't issued?

[ChrisJM981 924]

@Mrs. Peel There is also protection for a CCW holder that is charged with unlawful carry in states such as the People's Republik of New Jermany. They have to foot your legal bill if found innocent. 

[Smokin .50 1,907]

^^^^THIS^^^^

I know plenty of Detectives that open carry, especially in the summer.  If they walk like a duck, quack like a duck, wear their hair like a duck, have a handcuff holster in the middle of their back on their 5.11 stiff "off-duty" belt, then they must be a DUCK!  Most will use a badge holster w/ a belt clip so they can mount their badge right next to their open carried firearm.  So how many Detectives got locked-up thus far for open carry in NJ?  Answer:  NONE!

[supranatural 66]

18 minutes ago, ChrisJM981 said:

I'm not informed on their carry laws. You as the the CCW holder are responsible for following the laws for a CCW holder in each individual state, therefore it is still a patchwork. There is no federal standard, i.e. If one state requires you to declare to a LEO that you're carrying, you must follow that state law. If SC allows you to carry on your person with a CCW, then you wouldn't have to put it in the glovebox. 

Again, you are required to be in compliance with the CCW laws of the State you are traveling through. 

In every state CCW means you can conceal carry except for prohibited places.  You are not prohibited from CC in your car in any state that I can recall but since we don't have reciprocity I find myself getting out of the car to either put away or take out my CC pistol at each state line.  What a pain the ass.  And what if you go over a state line and don't realize it, and are pulled over just over the state line, like say in Maryland?  Good luck.  Reciprocity means we don't have to worry about being felons for things like that.  The patchwork in general refers to places that are prohibited and for the most part it's the same everywhere - places that serve alcohol, schools, municipal buildings.  But at least in NJ we will be allowed to carry concealed.  Who cares if we have to know a patchwork of subtle differences?  When you drive in another state you have to know their laws too right?  Some states allow right turn on red, some don't.  Some allow trailers on Parkways, some don't.  Their is no nirvana with drivers licenses, why would you expect it with CCW?

[bhunted 887]

I carried open and concealed. Nobody cared whether I walked into a different PD or was on the street. Was never questioned.
I don’t know if CCW id cards look like the one above today but mine looked pretty much like an FID card.


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[WP22 1,558]

@Mrs. Peel

From your favorite hardliner organization:

I'm assuming S.2135 is the equivalent to HR 4477

https://gunowners.org/news12317.htm

 

[voyager9 3,434]

1 hour ago, Zeke said:

Correct. But prohited places still need to be observed instate respectively. In addition to mag limits and ammunition types.

What are N.J. carry laws?

searching...

Correct me if I’m wrong but I thought handgun, mag, and ammo types were covered in the bill 

[Zeke 5,504]

Just now, voyager9 said:

Correct me if I’m wrong but I thought handgun, mag, and ammo types were covered in the bill 

I’m not sure....I posted the link you find the gifty....

[voyager9 3,434]

45 minutes ago, Zeke said:

I’m not sure....I posted the link you find the gifty....

From your link:

“(2) The term ‘handgun’ includes any magazine for use in a handgun and any ammunition loaded into the handgun or its magazine.

[Zeke 5,504]

22 minutes ago, voyager9 said:

From your link:

 

 

[CAL. .30 M1 2,101]

...the funny thing this still has to get passed the senate.....good luck.

[GRIZ 3,369]

2 hours ago, NJGF said:

According to the CCW app you can't carry in educational institutions and Casino's.

If one is traveling between a bunch of states then make sure they allow the # of rounds in your mags. For example CT is 10 and NJ is 15 (until January when it goes to 3-4 ;-)

IIRC, courthouses are also covered by statute.  Educational institutions are covered under criminal statutes in NJ.

There are a few other things in this law which I don't think anyone has mentioned I'll throw out here.  IANAL, please read the cite.  These are my interpretations of some of the other provisions of this statute.

926D. (c) (3)- requires award of attorney's fees from court if you are arrested and tried by state for violation and your defense is successful.

926D. (d) (1) and (2)- defines this as a civil right which would allow anyone who is arrested and acquitted using this statute as a defense able to sue for a civil rights violation under Federal law.

926D. (e) (2)- "Includes any magazine" no mention of capacity.  Any means any.

Sec 103- allows active off duty and retired LEOs to carry in school zone as long as firearm is concealed.  Now the state could still prohibit carry in a school owned by the state or local government.  Private schools could also prohibit carry but it would have to be posted.

926E.- allows Federal judges to carry in any state.

 

[GRIZ 3,369]

2 hours ago, Zeke said:

Nothing about establishments that serve alcohol?

Educational institutions and courthouses are covered by criminal statutes IIRC.  Casinos are covered under gambling statutes 

That's it in NJ.

[GRIZ 3,369]

2 hours ago, Smokin .50 said:

^^^^THIS^^^^

I know plenty of Detectives that open carry, especially in the summer.  If they walk like a duck, quack like a duck, wear their hair like a duck, have a handcuff holster in the middle of their back on their 5.11 stiff "off-duty" belt, then they must be a DUCK!  Most will use a badge holster w/ a belt clip so they can mount their badge right next to their open carried firearm.  So how many Detectives got locked-up thus far for open carry in NJ?  Answer:  NONE!

This open carry by plain clothes LEOs is a phenomena of the past 20 years or so. When I started working plainclothes I really liked keeping my gun concealed. I really think walking around with a gun and a badge on your hip while working is in poor taste.

LEOs for the most part carry under statutory authority not under any other state laws.  CCW laws do not apply to them.

 

[Zeke 5,504]

19 minutes ago, GRIZ said:

This open carry by plain clothes LEOs is a phenomena of the past 20 years or so. When I started working plainclothes I really liked keeping my gun concealed. I really think walking around with a gun and a badge on your hip while working is in poor taste.

LEOs for the most part carry under statutory authority not under any other state laws.  CCW laws do not apply to them.

 

It’s interesting. Talking with my friend yesterday, while he was extending my permits, oc would be a major ass ache for our locale.

That being said, when this does go through, expect some transition time. And don’t act like a jackass.

[1LtCAP 4,263]

WHEN this passes, i'll sure be glad that there's so many places that the law says we can't carry. 'cause at least i know that those intending harm will also be unarmed.

[CAL. .30 M1 2,101]

20 minutes ago, 1LtCAP said:

WHEN this passes, i'll sure be glad that there's so many places that the law says we can't carry. 'cause at least i know that those intending harm will also be unarmed.

Do u honestly think this is getting past the Senate? 

 

And if by miracle it does - u will still never be able to carry in nj.  The incoming gov and leg will fight it tooth and nail - we r acting like it's inevitable and it is far from it st all....sad to say 

[supranatural 66]

22 minutes ago, 1LtCAP said:

WHEN this passes, i'll sure be glad that there's so many places that the law says we can't carry. 'cause at least i know that those intending harm will also be unarmed.

If everyone calls their congress representative (House and Senate) and pushes hard, I think it will pass just like Trump got elected despite the naysayers.  

If the majority of people continue to be Debbie Downers, we will continue to be felons in NJ and a dozen other states if we dare try to CC.

1 minute ago, USRifle30Cal said:

Do u honestly think this is getting past the Senate? 

 

And if by miracle it does - u will still never be able to carry in nj.  The incoming gov and leg will fight it tooth and nail - we r acting like it's inevitable and it is far from it st all....sad to say 

Yes I think it will.

They can fight it like they can fight Obamacare...they will lose.  Fed trumps state.

[Zeke 5,504]

I’ve seen valor, I’ve also seen stolen valor.

[1LtCAP 4,263]

3 minutes ago, USRifle30Cal said:

Do u honestly think this is getting past the Senate? 

 

And if by miracle it does - u will still never be able to carry in nj.  The incoming gov and leg will fight it tooth and nail - we r acting like it's inevitable and it is far from it st all....sad to say 

I'M HOPEFUL it'll get through. i don't see any way whatsoever nj or any other state can fight it. the precedent was set with obamacare i think.

[Zeke 5,504]

10 minutes ago, USRifle30Cal said:

Do u honestly think this is getting past the Senate? 

 

And if by miracle it does - u will still never be able to carry in nj.  The incoming gov and leg will fight it tooth and nail - we r acting like it's inevitable and it is far from it st all....sad to say 

Perhaps we should retreat? Find a safe space?

[NJGF 375]

Under what constitutional authority can the federal government force a state to accept the CCW of another state. I want this as much as anyone else but I'm not sure getting it passed is the end. This will be challenged by all of the anti-gun states. This is not an enumerated right in the constitution. That leaves the right to the states.

If this gets overturned then we are left with 1/2 of our so called compromise: more gun control. IMHO (with nothing) the only way we get CCW is when the second amendment right to carry a firearm outside the home is recognized by SCOTUS and makes it the law of the land. After Heller/MdDonald no state now bans firearms in the home any longer which was an amazing victory.

I want this as much as anyone and have contacted my rep and give money to all of the gun rights orgs. Just trying to be realistic.

[Ray Ray 3,566]

TMI in this thread

[Downtownv 1,778]

I want to see Loretta Weinberg's fokkin head explode!

Maybe. I pray, she'll have a heart attack.

Then we can piss on her grave.

31 minutes ago, USRifle30Cal said:

Do u honestly think this is getting past the Senate? 

 

And if by miracle it does - u will still never be able to carry in nj.  The incoming gov and leg will fight it tooth and nail - we r acting like it's inevitable and it is far from it st all....sad to say 

 

1 hour ago, USRifle30Cal said:

...the funny thing this still has to get passed the senate.....good luck.

Is that you Loretta?