Jump to content
ajpaul59

Concealed Carry Reciprocity Act of 2017 Hudson, NC

Recommended Posts

9 minutes ago, JohnnyB said:

 

Unfortunately, as things stand, there are not enough votes (60) to pass in the Senate! Some Republicans will vote no and there are not enough Democrats who will vote yes to counter that and reach 60

 

Maybe. We don’t really know what the balance of power will be when it gets there. 

10 minutes ago, JohnnyB said:

SCOTUS IS OUR ONLY HOPE IN THIS GODFORSAKEN STATE!

Unfortunately true. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
23 minutes ago, JohnnyB said:

Unfortunately, as things stand, there are not enough votes (60) to pass in the Senate! Some Republicans will vote no and there are not enough Democrats who will vote yes to counter that and reach 60.

They will not use the "nuclear option" as it would set a precedence for future Senates. The bill will die in the Senate unfortunately and we will have to wait for another Trump SCOTUS appointment for SCOTUS to finally rule on CCW once and for all.

SCOTUS IS OUR ONLY HOPE IN THIS GODFORSAKEN STATE!

We'll see.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Unfortunately, as things stand, there are not enough votes (60) to pass in the Senate! Some Republicans will vote no and there are not enough Democrats who will vote yes to counter that and reach 60.
They will not use the "nuclear option" as it would set a precedence for future Senates. The bill will die in the Senate unfortunately and we will have to wait for another Trump SCOTUS appointment for SCOTUS to finally rule on CCW once and for all.
SCOTUS IS OUR ONLY HOPE IN THIS GODFORSAKEN STATE!


Why does everyone think nuclear option or cloture are the only two options?


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
And devote 30 straight days of filibuster time for just this bill? I don't see it.
They don't need to go for 30 straight days. They can continue to conduct other business by gaveling in and out. That is how it is supposed to work.

Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, revenger said:

I was thinking about another scenario if this is to pass and is signed into law,   Free states would no longer need to issue non-resident permits would they?   What would happen to our non-resident permits.  any thoughts on this 

It's a money maker for states that issue non resident permits. They won't shut that profit center down.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, GRIZ said:

...If there's a posted sign at the entrance and you ignore it there is currently no penalty for doing that in NJ AFAIK....

Isn't ignoring a posted sign at the entrance to a property considered defiant trespass?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, GRIZ said:

Article VI of the COTUS establishes the COTUS and all laws made by Congress to be the law if the land and enforceable in every state.  A state does not have an option to follow Federal law.  It must.

The only reason states are getting away being sanctuary states and marijuana laws is because there were 8 years of Obamanocchio.

Don't the feds have to enforce federal laws not the states. The INS can go into any state and detain and deport any undocumented/illegal people. The states can help if they chose but they are not violating any laws by not.

Didn't AZ get slapped down a few years by trying to enforce the immigration laws and were told by the feds to stop (I know I am probably missing some details on this).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, revenger said:

I was thinking about another scenario if this is to pass and is signed into law,   Free states would no longer need to issue non-resident permits would they?   What would happen to our non-resident permits.  any thoughts on this 

That's a great question. I agree why would a state process non resident permits anymore. If this law passes they are basically obsolete and meaningless.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
That's a great question. I agree why would a state process non resident permits anymore. If this law passes they are basically obsolete and meaningless.


As mentioned above. It doesn’t take much for a state to process them, and the financial gain they will get from individuals like us living in the PRNJ or the PRCA will gladly shell out any number they ask for just to get that right. Hell those states could up he prices to a couple grand for out of state permits and I know I’d pay just to be able to carry.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, NJGF said:

Don't the feds have to enforce federal laws not the states. The INS can go into any state and detain and deport any undocumented/illegal people. The states can help if they chose but they are not violating any laws by not.

Didn't AZ get slapped down a few years by trying to enforce the immigration laws and were told by the feds to stop (I know I am probably missing some details on this).

AFAIK most police officers in a state are not obligated to enforce Federal law.  There is a obligation for Federal officers to "take appropriate action"  for a state crime committed in their presence.  Federal officers often prosecute crimes under state systems when prosecution is declined by the US Attorney.  If they discover a state crime they notify state or local police. Federal officers can "deputize" anyone to assist them in an arrest or seizure.  It used to be if a state or local police officer he or she would notify HSI .  This is just cooperation. This is what this "sanctuary" bs is about.

Now there are many reasons a state or local can be cross designated by a Federal agency .  This involves training and the state or local guy or girl gets a Federal ID.  If they are cross designated they have all powers of a Federal officer.

What happened in Arizona a few years ago was Sheriff Joe in Maricopa County had most of his deputies cross designated by HSI when Bush 43 was POTUS.  This gave them authority in immigration and customs laws.  Sheriff Joe would have his deputies arrest illegals and turn them over to HSI.  The Obama administration told them to stop.  They even told Border Patrol to just issue a summons to apprehended illegals (like they were going to show up).  That's what happened in AZ.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm actually getting a CC permit from Utah even though I live in NJ. Just doing it to be ready if this really happens. We have a %54 chance of this bill being a law. Since I'll have a CC permit from Utah I'll be able to be in NJ, live here and carry with no ramifications because of the permit from Utah. I'll be sure to have the law on paper in my car in case I ever get stopped. It will supersede state laws since this one is federal. I really do hope it goes through, I'm just preparing and getting ready ahead of time. Don't even try to apply for a NJ permit. Never happen unless you have that justifiable need which is very hard to define. Have to spend about $200 for everything, but hey, at least I'll have a carry permit for Utah even if it all falls through. :)

H.R. 38

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This law goes into effect 90 days after passage.  That is sufficient time for police everywhere, including NJ, to get educated on it.  There were no issues in NJ that I am aware of when the Law Enforcement Officer's Safety Act went into effect.  Reciprocity will affect a lot more people.  I can't see police locking up people carrying under this law.  More so because if they do and they're wrong the court will have to pay their attorney fees and leave the agency open for a civil rights lawsuit.

Carrying a copy of the law with you doesn't make much sense for a couple of reasons.  First, this is not a way to endear yourself to a LEO who's looking to arrest you.  You're really calling the cop a dummy by doing this. Would you believe someone you're about to arrest who's waving a couple of sheets of paper in your face?  I've had more than one person tell me I couldn't do something.  If I'd listened to them it would have been a tough time for me.  I knew I was acting in a legal manner.

Secondly, police will be educated in this law no doubt.

If you are following the law and get arrested by your attorney fees will be paid and the following lawsuit will reward you handsomely for your ordeal.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, GRIZ said:

Depends on the state.  Never heard of "defiant tresspass" in NJ.

https://law.justia.com/codes/new-jersey/2016/title-2c/section-2c-18-3/
2016 New Jersey Revised Statutes

Section 2C:18-3 - Unlicensed Entry Of Structures; Defiant Trespasser; Peering Into Dwelling Places; Defenses.

2C:18-3. a. Unlicensed entry of structures. A person commits an offense if, knowing that he is not licensed or privileged to do so, he enters or surreptitiously remains in any research facility, structure, or separately secured or occupied portion thereof, or in or upon utility company property, or in the sterile area or operational area of an airport. An offense under this subsection is a crime of the fourth degree if it is committed in a school or on school property. The offense is a crime of the fourth degree if it is committed in a dwelling. ....

.....

b.Defiant trespasser. A person commits a petty disorderly persons offense if, knowing that he is not licensed or privileged to do so, he enters or remains in any place as to which notice against trespass is given by:

(1)Actual communication to the actor; or

(2)Posting in a manner prescribed by law or reasonably likely to come to the attention of intruders; or

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 hours ago, GRIZ said:

This law goes into effect 90 days after passage.  That is sufficient time for police everywhere, including NJ, to get educated on it.  There were no issues in NJ that I am aware of when the Law Enforcement Officer's Safety Act went into effect.  Reciprocity will affect a lot more people.  I can't see police locking up people carrying under this law.  More so because if they do and they're wrong the court will have to pay their attorney fees and leave the agency open for a civil rights lawsuit.

Carrying a copy of the law with you doesn't make much sense for a couple of reasons.  First, this is not a way to endear yourself to a LEO who's looking to arrest you.  You're really calling the cop a dummy by doing this. Would you believe someone you're about to arrest who's waving a couple of sheets of paper in your face?  I've had more than one person tell me I couldn't do something.  If I'd listened to them it would have been a tough time for me.  I knew I was acting in a legal manner.

Secondly, police will be educated in this law no doubt.

If you are following the law and get arrested by your attorney fees will be paid and the following lawsuit will reward you handsomely for your ordeal.

Yea, I think providing an officer who really would perform an illegal arrest deserves the court to hear that the citizen was literally giving him the legal law on what he was doing is wrong. That would be the little twist of the knife at the end. I don't want to endear or call the officer a dummy. Just try to provide him the facts of the law and maybe he actually would take a peek. But like you said, there shouldn't be any problems and the police would be educated.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 hours ago, NJGF said:

https://law.justia.com/codes/new-jersey/2016/title-2c/section-2c-18-3/
2016 New Jersey Revised Statutes

Section 2C:18-3 - Unlicensed Entry Of Structures; Defiant Trespasser; Peering Into Dwelling Places; Defenses.

2C:18-3. a. Unlicensed entry of structures. A person commits an offense if, knowing that he is not licensed or privileged to do so, he enters or surreptitiously remains in any research facility, structure, or separately secured or occupied portion thereof, or in or upon utility company property, or in the sterile area or operational area of an airport. An offense under this subsection is a crime of the fourth degree if it is committed in a school or on school property. The offense is a crime of the fourth degree if it is committed in a dwelling. ....

.....

b.Defiant trespasser. A person commits a petty disorderly persons offense if, knowing that he is not licensed or privileged to do so, he enters or remains in any place as to which notice against trespass is given by:

(1)Actual communication to the actor; or

(2)Posting in a manner prescribed by law or reasonably likely to come to the attention of intruders; or

Thanx for the cite.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, MichaelDiggs said:

Yea, I think providing an officer who really would perform an illegal arrest deserves the court to hear that the citizen was literally giving him the legal law on what he was doing is wrong. That would be the little twist of the knife at the end. I don't want to endear or call the officer a dummy. Just try to provide him the facts of the law and maybe he actually would take a peek. But like you said, there shouldn't be any problems and the police would be educated.

Being responsible for payment of the defendant's legal fees and losing lawsuits will ensure police are well educated by their agencies.

Be more concerned that you are carrying within the law than twisting knives.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, Ray Ray said:

What are we discussing in these last few pages?  Between the cut-N-past from government, state and local websites and the "what if" comments this has gotten out of control.

Seriously... the topics are like little kittens scampering to and fro throughout the thread. I can no longer follow it all!  My brain hurts. :facepalm:

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.



×
×
  • Create New...