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Concealed Carry Reciprocity Act of 2017 Hudson, NC

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Doesn't NJ consider justifiable need as the lawful purpose?

 

I am guessing I have more likelihood of moving to PA to carry than waiting for NJ to give in to this!

For the NH permit, the reason for the permit was "Any lawful purpose"

I don't think that would fly here.

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I can't believe after years of this, and now at least a possibility of it coming true, we still have people here saying, "This will do nothing for us in Jersey."

 

What exactly are YOU doing in Jersey? I don't want to hear about the phone calls you've made, or emails you've sent, I want to know what your hope is for CC.

 

What bill do you have proposed that you think NJ will pass for CC?

 

What politicians are waiting in the wings that you will elect and will champion and pass CC?

 

What lawsuits do you have that will give Jersey CC?

 

Answer:

 

NONE

 

You have nothing. You are counting on us. This legislation, in any reasonable form, would be a watershed event for the entire country. This is your quickest, best hope for CC in Jersey. Maybe it will turn out Jersey residents can't carry from Day 1, maybe not. But either way this would ultimately be the strongest way to start the collapse of the Jersey CC BS. It could not stand in the face of this. It might even require more fighting, but this would be leverage like nothing we have now. The piercing of the veil of Jersey firearms ignorance alone would be worth more than anything we got in Jersey in the last 30 years, and that is probably only 1% of the power of this earth shaking change.

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I can't believe after years of this, and now at least a possibility of it coming true, we still have people here saying, "This will do nothing for us in Jersey."

 

What exactly are YOU doing in Jersey? I don't want to hear about the phone calls you've made, or emails you've sent, I want to know what your hope is for CC.

 

What bill do you have proposed that you think NJ will pass for CC?

 

What politicians are waiting in the wings that you will elect and will champion and pass CC?

 

What lawsuits do you have that will give Jersey CC?

 

Answer:

 

NONE

 

You have nothing. You are counting on us. This legislation, in any reasonable form, would be a watershed event for the entire country. This is your quickest, best hope for CC in Jersey. Maybe it will turn out Jersey residents can't carry from Day 1, maybe not. But either way this would ultimately be the strongest way to start the collapse of the Jersey CC BS. It could not stand in the face of this. It might even require more fighting, but this would be leverage like nothing we have now. The piercing of the veil of Jersey firearms ignorance alone would be worth more than anything we got in Jersey in the last 30 years, and that is probably only 1% of the power of this earth shaking change.

 

Exactly my thoughts.  It is my hope that whether one of these National reciprocity bills passes as is or are modified to accommodate the leftist states, the number of lawsuits filed if non residents are allowed to carry here but NOT our own law abiding NJ residents would be enormous!  The loony left legislature would need to cave quickly or be pulled along kicking and screaming by the courts...  At least, that is my hope! 

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I think we are all on the same side here. My personal opinion (that's all it is) is that NJ will legislate around this law if and when it gets passed. For sure it is worth a try, I am not arguing with that. My hope is for the 9th justice on the Supreme Court.

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@realDonaldTrump @mike_pence @RepRichHudson @nra Please don't forget about the struggle in NY/NJ we need our carry rights restored as well.

 

if everyone tweets that out once a day who knows who might read it.

 

i do it once a day.

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I think we are all on the same side here. My personal opinion (that's all it is) is that NJ will legislate around this law if and when it gets passed. For sure it is worth a try, I am not arguing with that. My hope is for the 9th justice on the Supreme Court.

NJ can't "legislate" around a Federal law. They could establish more no carry areas as I stated previously in this thread. It would be a Federal law and while a state may be more restrictive it can't be contrary to Federal law.

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NJ can't "legislate" around a Federal law. They could establish more no carry areas as I stated previously in this thread. It would be a Federal law and while a state may be more restrictive it can't be contrary to Federal law.

 

Exactly what I was trying to say. They could legislate that no one could carry within 1000'  of any park for example which would have the effect of severely reducing the ability to carry (if not eliminating it in some areas). They could include a 1000' zone around any school bus routes or for that matter just change the 1000' to 10000'. Loretta will not go quietly and if she could only save one life it would be worth it to her (lol). I think ultimately the courts will get involved and hopefully free NJ.

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I didn't read much after the first page but hopefully you've all researched enough by now to realize that the Hudson bill is the cat's tits. This is the one to get behind and will allow in very plain language any permit holder from any state to carry in any state. Nj resident with new Hampshire non resident cc permit means I can finally walk the mean streets of Jersey city feeling safe and there's not a goddamn thing Sweeny or Weinberg can do about it. If you're interpreting this bill any other way you are wrong and I urge you to research further. The bill was specifically crafted with the residents of occupied states in mind

 

*Insert Ron Paul "it's happening" gif here*

 

Sent from my Nexus 6P

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I glad some of you guys are pulling the bill apart and making sense of it. I read it one way then read other thoughts on here, and now I see other things showing it could be the best thing to come around , to help NJ.

Carry on and Thanks guys.

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I didn't read much after the first page but hopefully you've all researched enough by now to realize that the Hudson bill is the cat's tits. This is the one to get behind and will allow in very plain language any permit holder from any state to carry in any state. Nj resident with new Hampshire non resident cc permit means I can finally walk the mean streets of Jersey city feeling safe and there's not a goddamn thing Sweeny or Weinberg can do about it. If you're interpreting this bill any other way you are wrong and I urge you to research further. The bill was specifically crafted with the residents of occupied states in mind

 

*Insert Ron Paul "it's happening" gif here*

 

Sent from my Nexus 6P

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This is your quickest, best hope for CC in Jersey. Maybe it will turn out Jersey residents can't carry from Day 1, maybe not. But either way this would ultimately be the strongest way to start the collapse of the Jersey CC BS. It could not stand in the face of this. It might even require more fighting, but this would be leverage like nothing we have now.

This. It may not help directly, but okay the long game. It helps. Significantly.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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NJ can't "legislate" around a Federal law.

You mean line CO, WA, MA and ME have for pot? Or CA and NJ are trying for immigration?

 

Don't underestimate the ability of a state to counter the Feds. Or for the Feds to look the other way.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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You mean line CO, WA, MA and ME have for pot? Or CA and NJ are trying for immigration?

Don't underestimate the ability of a state to counter the Feds. Or for the Feds to look the other way.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Marijuana is still illegal under Federal law. That can be enforced by the Feds. Those states with legal marijuana have chosen not to have state laws prohibiting it's possession or use.

 

There is no state I know of that has any illegal immigration laws. Immigration is solely a venue of the Federal government. Sanctuary cities will get a wakeup call when the Trump Administration lets the USBP, HSI, and ICE enforce the laws Obamanocchio has not let them.

 

States have no obligation to enforce federal laws.

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it's not an interpretation it's plain language. there is no residency requirement in this bill. a non prohibited person carrying a valid photo id and a permit of A state which permits that person to carry concealed may carry a concealed handgun in ANY state. 

 

the special "fuck you" to the nj, ny, ca, md and hawaii's of the world is the next section which explains it won't apply to your home state, provided they don't prohibit the carrying of concealed firearms of their residents for lawful purposes. in other words, live in a shall issue state, you're covered by their carry laws and may carry freely there. rock on. live in a MAY issue state = fuck you, this law supercedes because you don't allow for carry for lawful purposes. 

 

further,

 

http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2016/12/johannes-paulsen/concealed-carry-reciprocity-act-introduced-rep-richard-hudson/

 

The Concealed Carry Reciprocity Act of 2017 doesn’t specify a residency requirement. So, for example, a resident of New York City who obtained a Utah Concealed Firearm Permit could legally  carry a firearm in The Big Apple. (I suspect that would make a certain billionaire plutocrat rather cross.)

 

the language is equal parts brilliant and hilarious as it is very clearly written to mess with the restricted states. this guy hudson is ok in my book

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it's not an interpretation it's plain language. there is no residency requirement in this bill. a non prohibited person carrying a valid photo id and a permit of A state which permits that person to carry concealed may carry a concealed handgun in ANY state. 

 

the special "fuck you" to the nj, ny, ca, md and hawaii's of the world is the next section which explains it won't apply to your home state, provided they don't prohibit the carrying of concealed firearms of their residents for lawful purposes. in other words, live in a shall issue state, you're covered by their carry laws and may carry freely there. rock on. live in a MAY issue state = fuck you, this law supercedes because you don't allow for carry for lawful purposes. 

 

further,

 

http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2016/12/johannes-paulsen/concealed-carry-reciprocity-act-introduced-rep-richard-hudson/

 

The Concealed Carry Reciprocity Act of 2017 doesn’t specify a residency requirement. So, for example, a resident of New York City who obtained a Utah Concealed Firearm Permit could legally  carry a firearm in The Big Apple. (I suspect that would make a certain billionaire plutocrat rather cross.)

 

the language is equal parts brilliant and hilarious as it is very clearly written to mess with the restricted states. this guy hudson is ok in my book

 

 

 

I don't believe Paulsen is correct. The bill doesn't contain a residency requirement, but it specifically says:

 

A BILL
To amend title 18, United States Code, to provide a means
by which nonresidents of a State whose residents may
carry concealed firearms may also do so in the State. 
 

2:

6 ‘‘§ 926D. Reciprocity for the carrying of certain con-
cealed firearms
8 ‘‘(a) Notwithstanding any provision of the law of any
9 State or political subdivision thereof (except as provided
10 in subsection (b)), a person who is not prohibited by Fed-
11 eral law from possessing, transporting, shipping, or receiv-
12 ing a firearm, who is carrying a valid identification docu-
13 ment containing a photograph of the person, and who is
14 carrying a valid license or permit which is issued pursuant
15 to the law of a State and which permits the person to
16 carry a concealed firearm or is entitled to carry a con-
17 cealed firearm in the State in which the person resides,
18 may possess or carry a concealed handgun (other than a
19 machinegun or destructive device) that has been shipped
20 or transported in interstate or foreign commerce, in any
21 State, other than the State of residence of the person,
22 that—
23 ‘‘(1) has a statute under which residents of the
24 State may apply for a license or permit to carry a
25 concealed firearm; or
 
3:
1 ‘‘(2) does not prohibit the carrying of concealed
2 firearms by residents of the State for lawful pur-
3 poses.
4 ‘‘(b) This section shall not be construed to supersede
5 or limit the laws of any State that—
6 ‘‘(1) permit private persons or entities to pro-
7 hibit or restrict the possession of concealed firearms
8 on their property; or
9 ‘‘(2) prohibit or restrict the possession of fire-
10 arms on any State or local government property, in-
11 stallation, building, base, or park. 
 
 
 
I still believe it's worth supporting for the sake of gun owners nationwide and because it would be a great springboard for pro-2A lawsuits in NJ.
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I think this part is our ticket in, as the NJ does prohibit the cc for lawful purposes.

 

3:
1 ‘‘(2) does not prohibit the carrying of concealed
2 firearms by residents of the State for lawful pur-
3 poses.

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If it doesn't apply to NJ, it will be challenged by the ANJRPC. Evan Nappen has stated on multiple occasions that equal protection under the 14th Amendment would apply. I'm going to write a letter suggesting an amendment to the bill be added for those in what are essentially non-issue areas such as NJ, HI, DC, and NYC.

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If it doesn't apply to NJ, it will be challenged by the ANJRPC. Evan Nappen has stated on multiple occasions that equal protection under the 14th Amendment would apply. I'm going to write a letter suggesting an amendment to the bill be added for those in what are essentially non-issue areas such as NJ, HI, DC, and NYC.

Same.

Clearly state" a permit from any state,will be honored in all states"

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For those that think this bill allows NJ residents with out of state permits to carry in NJ, what do you think "other than the state of residence of the person" means?  THAT is plain as day.  The entire reciprocity arrangement in the bill only applies when you are outside your state of residence.  It is that simple.  If you think otherwise please explain what the language I just quoted means.  I wish it were otherwise, but I'm sick and tired of these pie in the sky interpretations and predictions.  Remember a few years back, after Heller and McDonald, when everyone was saying "just wait until the Supremes slap NJ down."  How did that work out for us?  I don't mean to be a pessimist -- the Trump win is a huge, huge step forward for gun rights -- but the reality in this state is what it is and there will be many roadblocks and much time that passes before NJ is forced to accept carry, unless there is a clear and unambiguous Federal carry permit enacted (which most 2A advocates don't seem to want and hasn't been proposed).

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For those that think this bill allows NJ residents with out of state permits to carry in NJ, what do you think "other than the state of residence of the person" means?  THAT is plain as day.  The entire reciprocity arrangement in the bill only applies when you are outside your state of residence.  It is that simple.  If you think otherwise please explain what the language I just quoted means.  I wish it were otherwise, but I'm sick and tired of these pie in the sky interpretations and predictions.  Remember a few years back, after Heller and McDonald, when everyone was saying "just wait until the Supremes slap NJ down."  How did that work out for us?  I don't mean to be a pessimist -- the Trump win is a huge, huge step forward for gun rights -- but the reality in this state is what it is and there will be many roadblocks and much time that passes before NJ is forced to accept carry, unless there is a clear and unambiguous Federal carry permit enacted (which most 2A advocates don't seem to want and hasn't been proposed).

 

PDM is correct.  The Hudson bill allows a CCW license holder to carry in any state, EXCEPT their home state, unless their license was issued by their home state.  The legal jargon is pretty clear in this regard.  I believe this is a means to avoid violating a state's right to govern its own residents.  In other words, the Hudson bill does nothing for NJ residents who want to carry in NJ.

 

All that being said, Trump getting elected was a huge step forward for gun rights, even in NJ.  What NJ shooters really need is a lawsuit, or series of lawsuits, to make their way to a pro-2A SCOTUS.  Getting to that point is a long and arduous journey, but I think the passage of any reciprocity bill would accelerate that process.  In my opinion, the exclusion of a pool of law-abiding citizens from this legislation simply because they live in a particular set of states is something that would be mercilessly attacked and rectified.  One can hope, as long as one remains realistic.

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PDM is correct. The Hudson bill allows a CCW license holder to carry in any state, EXCEPT their home state, unless their license was issued by their home state. The legal jargon is pretty clear in this regard. I believe this is a means to avoid violating a state's right to govern its own residents. In other words, the Hudson bill does nothing for NJ residents who want to carry in NJ.

 

All that being said, Trump getting elected was a huge step forward for gun rights, even in NJ. What NJ shooters really need is a lawsuit, or series of lawsuits, to make their way to a pro-2A SCOTUS. Getting to that point is a long and arduous journey, but I think the passage of any reciprocity bill would accelerate that process. In my opinion, the exclusion of a pool of law-abiding citizens from this legislation simply because they live in a particular set of states is something that would be mercilessly attacked and rectified. One can hope, as long as one remains realistic.

Well, we have atleast 4 years

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All that being said, Trump getting elected was a huge step forward for gun rights, even in NJ.  What NJ shooters really need is a lawsuit, or series of lawsuits, to make their way to a pro-2A SCOTUS.  Getting to that point is a long and arduous journey, but I think the passage of any reciprocity bill would accelerate that process.  In my opinion, the exclusion of a pool of law-abiding citizens from this legislation simply because they live in a particular set of states is something that would be mercilessly attacked and rectified.  One can hope, as long as one remains realistic.

Exactly.

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True, Trump could veto much of anything Democrats send to his desk. But if they win at least a chamber in two years, you can say goodbye to any further expansions of gun rights beyond executive orders, which aren't particularly effective.

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