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Concealed Carry Reciprocity Act of 2017 Hudson, NC

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Being the skeptic I normally am, in this case I have to believe in the old saying that goes something like "Perfect is the enemy of Good".  This bill is a big step forward IMO and I don't understand why anyone who supports CCW would oppose it.  Is it perfect?  Of course not - name one thing in gov't that is.  Is it a step in the right direction?  Absolutely.  Any potential problem hidden in the fix-NICS pieces can be addressed, but to not recognize the benefits nationally with this bill seems short-sighted.  

And to vote "No" because the bill isn't perfect seems to be DC-speak for "I didn't really support it but need to find an excuse so I don't piss of the voters".

Will this help NJ?  Depends on the final bill if it ever gets that far.  Maybe, maybe not.  About the only way it can hurt is if states stop issuing non-resident licenses since they might be unnecessary (in most cases).  Face it - NJ will need to be beaten into submission before we can carry here.  IMO the only chance we have will come at the federal level, either the courts or through legislation like this (but will still get dragged through the courts).

NJ has long known the state's justifiable need laws are a problem, no surprise, but no Dem politician is going to vote to change that - too much down side with the voters.  Change will only come from the feds or courts.  The pols know it.  Why else do they do everything possible to prevent a 2A case from being ruled on by the NJSC?     

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Just my 2 cents for what it's worth.

IF the house and senate pass a CCW bill and NJ residents could carry on an out of state CCW, tell me why in hell would any NJ resident get a NJ  CCW?

Knowing NJ's feeling on CCW, I'm sure they would over charge, over regulate and just generally make it as tough as possible on us as they can, more forms, additional background checks, more references, photos and possibly a letter from your mother.

It would only be fitting for all NJ residents to get an out of state CCW's and deprive them of our dollars for at least as long as they have been denying us the right to carry.

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The breakdown was 52 R 46 D and 2 Independents. I'm not sure if that still holds true with Doug Jones winning Alabama though. He may vote for S446, as he is in a pro 2A state and is up for election in 2 years. They'll need to get it done before the midterm elections. Expect the vote to be close to the elections so it will be fresh in voters' minds.

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As an ex-New Jersey resident who relocated to the free state of North Carolina, I have mixed emotions about the bill. At the outset it looks like a major win for 2A throughout the fifty states. My permit would be valid when I visit family and friends back in the Garden State. Of course, I'd be limited to small capacity magazines and no hollow-points, but at least I would be armed.  That's all goodness.

What has me conflicted is concern that the Feds have stepped into the arena. When the Dems take over, and it will happen, they could pass an amendment that will require registration, prior notice, fed-defined annual training, fees, federal permits, etc, etc, etc.

It could well be a short term gain for a long term loss. I don't trust them as far as I can throw them, so I have to vote 'no', with regrets.

Actually, we don't need a new law at all. We already have this thing called the Second Amendment to the Constitution of the United State of America.

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8 minutes ago, Daedalus said:

As an ex-New Jersey resident who relocated to the free state of North Carolina, I have mixed emotions about the bill. At the outset it looks like a major win for 2A throughout the fifty states. My permit would be valid when I visit family and friends back in the Garden State. Of course, I'd be limited to small capacity magazines and no hollow-points, but at least I would be armed.  That's all goodness.

What has me conflicted is concern that the Feds have stepped into the arena. When the Dems take over, and it will happen, they could pass an amendment that will require registration, prior notice, fed-defined annual training, fees, federal permits, etc, etc, etc.

It could well be a short term gain for a long term loss. I don't trust them as far as I can throw them, so I have to vote 'no', with regrets.

Actually, we don't need a new law at all. We already have this thing called the Second Amendment to the Constitution of the United State of America.

If the Democrats take over they won't amend this.  They'll repeal it.  Then they can still pass legislation requiring registration, possession permits, etc

The legislation doesn't have to be new laws.  It can be conditions for getting federal money.  You want Federal School Lunch money?  You have to have all guns registered, require training for possessing firearms, etc.

Take what you can get.  Worry about losing it after you have it.

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12 minutes ago, GRIZ said:

Take what you can get.  Worry about losing it after you have it.

From an admittedly selfish perspective, that is exactly what I am worried about. I fully understand the NJ perspective of take what you can get, however. As I said: mixed emotions.

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2 hours ago, Daedalus said:

From an admittedly selfish perspective, that is exactly what I am worried about. I fully understand the NJ perspective of take what you can get, however. As I said: mixed emotions.

Not only a NJ perspective.

Like I said if Democrats are in a position to put all kinds of requirement on this, that is the least of your worries.

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If the Democrats take over they won't amend this.  They'll repeal it.  Then they can still pass legislation requiring registration, possession permits, etc
The legislation doesn't have to be new laws.  It can be conditions for getting federal money.  You want Federal School Lunch money?  You have to have all guns registered, require training for possessing firearms, etc.
Take what you can get.  Worry about losing it after you have it.
That is not fully accurate anymore since ObamaCare decision. Which was why Roberts claimed he changed his vote the way he did. The federal funds now have to be tied to the law in order to force state compliance. So they couldn't threaten to take away school lunch but they could probably take law enforcement funding.

Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk

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1 hour ago, capt14k said:

That is not fully accurate anymore since ObamaCare decision. Which was why Roberts claimed he changed his vote the way he did. The federal funds now have to be tied to the law in order to force state compliance. So they couldn't threaten to take away school lunch but they could probably take law enforcement funding.

Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk
 

My response was a bit sarcastic.

If Congress wants something bad enough they will find federal funding to tie it to.

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26 minutes ago, CMJeepster said:

Saw this last night, did you see christies comment, I've put it below, now with Murphy who knows what happens.

Even Christie, a Republican who has pardoned a number of out-of-state residents caught up in New Jersey's strict gun laws, is against the change. Christie said it's a state's rights issue that the federal government should stay out of.

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3 hours ago, ChrisJM981 said:

States do not have rights, they have powers. I wouldn't expect a politician from NJ to recognize that though. Change is coming. I hope it scares Loretta Weinberg into a coma. 

the federal government possesses only those powers delegated to it by the United States Constitution. All remaining powers are reserved for the states or the people. Bye, bye Loretta!

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6 hours ago, Bklynracer said:

Saw this last night, did you see christies comment, I've put it below, now with Murphy who knows what happens.

Even Christie, a Republican who has pardoned a number of out-of-state residents caught up in New Jersey's strict gun laws, is against the change. Christie said it's a state's rights issue that the federal government should stay out of.

IMO, the RTKBA is in the 2nd Amendment, therefore it should be the supreme law of the land.  My RTKBA is hardly recognized in this state and varies from state to state, therefore the fed needs to step in and codify it.

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4 minutes ago, CMJeepster said:

IMO, the RTKBA is in the 2nd Amendment, therefore it should be the supreme law of the land.  My RTKBA is hardly recognized in this state and varies from state to state, therefore the fed needs to step in and codify it.

They can codify until the cows come home. But until it is declared a right by the SCOTUS, an unfringable right, the states will continue to manipulate it and twist it to their convenance. 

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Just now, BobA said:

They can codify until the cows come home. But until it is declared a right by the SCOTUS, an unfringable right, the states will continue to manipulate it and twist it to their convenance. 

Agree with above!

My observations:

1) I have some mixed feelings about this bill. For a few reasons. The main reason is: I wonder if we're trying to get the Feds to do what we (NJ residents) haven't effectively done for ourselves: sue, sue, and sue some mo' to force our state into a constitutional stance. Once and for all, get several hundred people to apply for concealed carry --- use the inevitably high rejection rate as the basis for a lawsuit and take it all the way to SCOTUS. There is NO reason to believe the finding wouldn't be similar to the other recent case which knocked down the equivalent of "justifiable need" in DC. We know NJ's approach to concealed carry is unconstitutional --- so we should just fight it for god's sake --- get one or more very solid cases in the pipeline and get SCOTUS to weigh in. Yes, it would take longer... but I just can't see why we're so excited about a less direct action that can just be weakened a thousand different ways by individual states or by the next presidential administration. That's how I see it. 

2) AND... on a side note, sheesh, I'm more and more impressed with Shaneen Allen! After being a crime victim, does she cower in fear? No, she goes out and arms herself. Then, after being caught up in our ridiculous laws, getting thrown in the slammer for 6 weeks, threatened with a much worse loss of freedom, and getting her whole damn life turned upside down... does she slink away with her tail tucked between her legs and disappear into the woodwork (just grateful to be pardoned?)... oh, HELL NO... she comes out swinging with both fists as an outspoken 2A activist. I love this freakin' woman! The fact that she's a black single mom is just a huge plus in terms of the "optics" too. God bless her. She's really doing a great job.

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37 minutes ago, BobA said:

They can codify until the cows come home. But until it is declared a right by the SCOTUS, an unfringable right, the states will continue to manipulate it and twist it to their convenance. 

When do we talk about individual rights? Like the ones in The Bill Of Rights?

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2 hours ago, Mrs. Peel said:

Agree with above!

My observations:

1) I have some mixed feelings about this bill. For a few reasons. The main reason is: I wonder if we're trying to get the Feds to do what we (NJ residents) haven't effectively done for ourselves: sue, sue, and sue some mo' to force our state into a constitutional stance. Once and for all, get several hundred people to apply for concealed carry --- use the inevitably high rejection rate as the basis for a lawsuit and take it all the way to SCOTUS. There is NO reason to believe the finding wouldn't be similar to the other recent case which knocked down the equivalent of "justifiable need" in DC. We know NJ's approach to concealed carry is unconstitutional --- so we should just fight it for god's sake --- get one or more very solid cases in the pipeline and get SCOTUS to weigh in. Yes, it would take longer... but I just can't see why we're so excited about a less direct action that can just be weakened a thousand different ways by individual states or by the next presidential administration. That's how I see it. 

2) AND... on a side note, sheesh, I'm more and more impressed with Shaneen Allen! After being a crime victim, does she cower in fear? No, she goes out and arms herself. Then, after being caught up in our ridiculous laws, getting thrown in the slammer for 6 weeks, threatened with a much worse loss of freedom, and getting her whole damn life turned upside down... does she slink away with her tail tucked between her legs and disappear into the woodwork (just grateful to be pardoned?)... oh, HELL NO... she comes out swinging with both fists as an outspoken 2A activist. I love this freakin' woman! The fact that she's a black single mom is just a huge plus in terms of the "optics" too. God bless her. She's really doing a great job.

There was chatter years ago about a mass rejection for CCW in NJ.  Then everybody (well, almost everybody, with the exception of guys like me) candy-assed out of it, fearful of what they'd have to write on every gun permit application post-denial.  Lots of 2A Patriots have already applied & been denied.  The latest is my good friend Mark Cheeseman, a Glassboro, NJ resident that appealed & was denied TWICE!  Being denied a carry permit DOES NOT affect your future approvals for P2P's, and several staunch 2A advocates have already reported same!

Shaneen is a force to be reckoned with!  CNJFO invited her to a function over the summer where she came & spoke to us, and brought her two boys as well.  I've known Shaneen for years now, and personally helped fight for her pardon (like many here).  She has shown-up at Tony Simon's "The 2nd is for Everyone:  Diversity Shoot" several times.  On those nights I helped teach her how to use varios shooting platforms, the last time it was a High Point 9mm Carbine that High Point donated to Tony!  I'd really LOVE for you to meet her some day!

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If we could get an organization to bankroll the lawsuits, I would be all for it.

I would have no problem applying for a permit to carry, using the 2A as my "justifiable need".

Without buckets of cash, we may do more harm than good to ourselves.

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38 minutes ago, Fred2 said:

If we could get an organization to bankroll the lawsuits, I would be all for it.

I would have no problem applying for a permit to carry, using the 2A as my "justifiable need".

Without buckets of cash, we may do more harm than good to ourselves.

Mark Cheeseman & Coalition of New Jersey Firearm Owners Treasurer Jack Pyle (a professional CPA by trade) are presently working on just such an enterprise.  A War Chest if you will.  To be used to sue for an injunction so the Murphy Steam Roller gets shut down.  Or perhaps file a discrimination lawsuit as a class-action?  Mark is searching for an attorney as I type this.

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