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Heavyopp

Getting a screwing from Borough -- Surprise Sewer Tax

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Unfortunately you are caught in A situation that happens A lot, I Towns and Counties in NJ.  I will use City Comission meetings for example.

All meetings open, closed or special, Must be made public in 2 media print editions announcing date time and place.

All Agendas must be posted on City or County websites, along with minutes from prior meetings (unless it was A closed meeting)

there are 2 readings of proposed resolutions. 1st reading is to introduce a resolution, At that time it is open to public comment, And comments from officials. 1st reading is then passed by majority vote, or not and it is dead.

2nd reading is done at the next scheduled meeting, The public can comment at the time of Agenda comments, That takes place before any votes on resolution. 

That is the last chance for public comment for or against before the vote on 2nd reading. If second reading is passed by majority vote it becomes Law.

 

This is where people (myself included before I learned) feel they got screwed by something like you are experiencing now.

Point is, It takes very little time to check your town or counties website to be aware of actions coming. both good or bad.

Its legal and has been for many decades. The way it works or doesn't depends on public awareness.  That is how things happen and the fact that people don't look at these things is what allows cities and towns to move things thru without objections from Tax payers.  They depend on you not to keep track of what they do.

 

Sorry it was long winded. But that is how it works in A democracy, Not just NJ but the USA.

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1) sounds illegal, but i'm sure there's some little known technicality that lets them do this.

2) probably just another way around raising property taxes. they probably figure if they can't raise property, they'll just find a way to add a new tax(by adjusting usage lower) and use that money

its legal..they had a meeting and passed an ordinance or amendment

 

it's not likely that they are doing it as you think. The MUA likely raised the rates significantly that they could not absorb the cost anymore.

 

You now have an EDUCATION ON WHAT HAPPENS  when you don't go to meetings or make sure you vote in Municipal elections...

this is the EXACT reason I ran for my town council.

 

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It's state law. If sewers are available you MUST hook up. No choice in the matter.

no. This is a law in Sussex county set by the Freeholders and SCMUA, IF there are existing sewers within a certain distance.

 

The towns can require it, but there are plenty that don't.There are other "safeguards" such as the famous Wantage  law that basically requires a new septic install with a change of ownership.

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The town can make special rules on distances from the system. Or if their system can't handle the additional load of a neighborhood, or even one house. Otherwise they have to connect as per 2.19.1 in the National Standard Plumbing code, as adopted by the NJ IRC. It's really rare that they do it though, usually there are some specific circumstances as to why they don't want that money from more homes.

 

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My recollection was they put a sewer line in and sent letters telling everyone they had to hook up. A bunch of people complained that they had just recently installed new septic systems and it got ugly. Finally the town backed down and gave them an almost infinite extension because they screamed and yelled so much. They can pump them out and do other work on them but are not allowed to replace them and if that is needed they then have to hook up. I think forget exactly where in town this was but it is on some line that they ran to Centergrove school if my memory is correct.

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My recollection was they put a sewer line in and sent letters telling everyone they had to hook up. A bunch of people complained that they had just recently installed new septic systems and it got ugly. Finally the town backed down and gave them an almost infinite extension because they screamed and yelled so much. They can pump them out and do other work on them but are not allowed to replace them and if that is needed they then have to hook up. I think forget exactly where in town this was but it is on some line that they ran to Centergrove school if my memory is correct.

The township can fill in that blank line in that code citation i provided with 5' if they wanted to. So if your dwelling isn't within 5' of the road, the Authority having jurisdiction can then not make you hook up. But it's still up to the town if they want to allow it or not. They caved to enough people in this case. In my town we basically rioted at the town hall and they did what they wanted to anyway. Even after we voted the sewer project down a few years prior.

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no. This is a law in Sussex county set by the Freeholders and SCMUA, IF there are existing sewers within a certain distance.

 

The towns can require it, but there are plenty that don't.There are other "safeguards" such as the famous Wantage law that basically requires a new septic install with a change of ownership.

That may be the case here in Sussex county. But this is state code, and it trumps all local or county regulations. Even though the county regulations may be stricter slightly. This code is adopted state wide. Every building on every property in the state, is subject to the plumbing code.

 

e6a6f52059bd02b7ab8333169fcd93dd.jpg

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It's state law. If sewers are available you MUST hook up. No choice in the matter.

 

 

 

This statement is incorrect.  State laws requires hookup to municipal Water or Sewer, Under 2 conditions.

1 Failure of private well or septic system, requiring replacement of said systems.

2 Prior to sale or tranfers of property.

 

A municipality can attempt to force hookup. But legally they cannot except in the above situations.

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1Drill your own well for irrigation .( I would jus do it,um , prolly wouldn't get any permits as you may find your not allowed)

 

2 definitely go to next council meeting and make friends with all the other pissed of residents.

 

3 with new pissed off friends petition for a repeal of the ordinance.

 

Retroactive was sneaky, that aspect may not be legal. But passing ordinances is. They should have passed for moving forward.

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The way the council did this is akin to going to an all you can eat buffet for $20 and when you ask for the bill they tell you it's $40 because you ate more than they thought you would.

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1Drill your own well for irrigation .( I would jus do it,um , prolly wouldn't get any permits as you may find your not

allowed)

​Do at own risk, Even irrigation requires permits and inspection.  Price will be high when caught.

 

2 definitely go to next council meeting and make friends with all the other pissed of residents.

​Should be doing this already, Even if not all meetings, Taxpayers are part of the checks and balance system in policy making.

 

3 with new pissed off friends petition for a repeal of the ordinance.

​Very unlikely to reverse the ordinance, That's why resolutions and ordinances have strict compliance rules, In order to not be repealed.

 

Retroactive was sneaky, that aspect may not be legal. But passing ordinances is. They should have passed for moving forward.

​Most likely available option would be legal action to reverse the retroactive time for charges.  Resolutions have legally binding amount of days for them to take effect after passage.   20 days here in our town.

BUT need A big bank roll it will be costly to sue if all rules and regs were followed by law.

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It's state law. If sewers are available you MUST hook up. No choice in the matter.

 

 

 

This statement is incorrect. State laws requires hookup to municipal Water or Sewer, Under 2 conditions.

1 Failure of private well or septic system, requiring replacement of said systems.

2 Prior to sale or tranfers of property.

 

A municipality can attempt to force hookup. But legally they cannot except in the above situations.

Notice the use of the word "Shall" multiple times in the code. I posted it in black and white from the code with the citation. If there are sewers available, private systems are not permitted. Unless the "Authority having jurisdiction" (aka the township code enforcement official) says otherwise. The code enforcement official can put a red tag on your home if you don't comply, and have you removed from the dwelling until the code has been met if he/she wishes in a situation where it presents danger. And they will evoke the federal safe water drinking protection act, at that point as their grounds for your removal. Not to mention the daily fines until the dwelling meets code.

 

4306a61f8b40107b38b89e1188fbe6fc.jpg

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That is correct in the right text.  Looks to me like that is part of the building code for the town its written for. Pertaining to new construction.                                      IN which it places 2 scenarios.

 

If no public sewer and water available in area OR dwelling is set back so far as to be deemed cost prohibitive to provide service to property.  Then well and septic permits would be given.

 

If dwelling is within set distance from utilities the owner must hook to municipal system.

 

My references above are to existing properties where A City or town runs sewer and water past them after the fact of  house being there.

 

Example being our property. We were here long before city water and sewer.   The town offered everyone A nice option to hookup before the road was repaved. But could not force us to.  Some people did.  We didn't because we aren't planning to sell and have A well and septic system that should last our lifetimes.

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That is correct in the right text. Looks to me like that is part of the building code for the town its written for. Pertaining to new construction. IN which it places 2 scenarios.

 

If no public sewer and water available in area OR dwelling is set back so far as to be deemed cost prohibitive to provide service to property. Then well and septic permits would be given.

 

If dwelling is within set distance from utilities the owner must hook to municipal system.

 

My references above are to existing properties where A City or town runs sewer and water past them after the fact of house being there.

 

Example being our property. We were here long before city water and sewer. The town offered everyone A nice option to hookup before the road was repaved. But could not force us to. Some people did. We didn't because we aren't planning to sell and have A well and septic system that should last our lifetimes.

That's the statewide adopted plumbing code. It's for every municipality in NJ. Not just one specific township. Townships in NJ don't have their own building codes. They're all state codes. Townships may add certain stipulations if the state approves them, with a legitimate reason. But they will always be stricter than the state adopted code, there are no exceptions to go more lenient ever.

 

In NJ the statewide building code is the IRC (international residential code). That building code adopts the other codes, such as the National standard plumbing code, the national electric code, barrier free ADA, the international fuel gas code, and the international mechanical code. the state revisits their code adoptions every 3 years for re adoption of the updates to those codes.

 

The reason for this universal code state wide is so we only have to have one license to work anywhere in the state under the same codes in our respective trades. If we didn't have that, we would be like PA or NY where you need a license for each county or township to work. They have different codes in different places. We're actually streamlined in this state surprisingly in that aspect.

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its legal..they had a meeting and passed an ordinance or amendment

 

it's not likely that they are doing it as you think. The MUA likely raised the rates significantly that they could not absorb the cost anymore.

 

You now have an EDUCATION ON WHAT HAPPENS  when you don't go to meetings or make sure you vote in Municipal elections...

this is the EXACT reason I ran for my town council.

 

 

It's not the ordinance I'm questioning as legal or not -- It's the way they went back and charged me for using water that I was allowed to use when I was using it -- In my eyes it should be from the day the ordinance became law and after -- I can't change the amount of water I used and I was allowed to use it

 

 

 

 

 

BS...they know

 

Not so sure -- can't explain here but --  source is pretty reliable

 

 

 

 

1Drill your own well for irrigation .( I would jus do it,um , prolly wouldn't get any permits as you may find your not allowed)

 

2 definitely go to next council meeting and make friends with all the other pissed of residents.

 

3 with new pissed off friends petition for a repeal of the ordinance.

 

Retroactive was sneaky, that aspect may not be legal. But passing ordinances is. They should have passed for moving forward.

 

Exactly my thoughts --  Passing an ordinance is how its done -- If I missed the ordinance thats on me going forward -- Going back into previous years is just rotten and I bet illegal

 

I didn't break the law when I used the water back in 2015 why am I penalized for it now? 

 

 

 

 

Why pick last year? Why not go back 3? Or 5? Or 10?

 

exactly

 

The way the council did this is akin to going to an all you can eat buffet for $20 and when you ask for the bill they tell you it's $40 because you ate more than they thought you would.

 

 

 

Right -- you drive down the road at 35 mph -- next week they make the speed limit 25 -- then they give tickets to everyone who drove down at 35 mph last week...

 

This can't be legal

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Solution:  Drill your own well.  We drilled several irrigation wells on our farm when I was growing up using one of these. 

 

Hydra-Drill-77-12_crop_d.jpg

 

Funny thing is when I moved to this house 18 years ago there was a capped well -- One day I happened to see a well truck across the street at a relatives home to the previous owner of my house

 

I walked over and introduced myself, asked about my capped well -- Figured I'd knock off the capped portion and hook up for irrigation -- Guy said the state got involved, forced them to cap the contaminated well and sent an inspector to watch them fill the entire casing up with cement --  I forget how deep it was but he said it's concrete,  all the way down to the bottom

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That may be the case here in Sussex county. But this is state code, and it trumps all local or county regulations. Even though the county regulations may be stricter slightly. This code is adopted state wide. Every building on every property in the state, is subject to the plumbing code.

 

e6a6f52059bd02b7ab8333169fcd93dd.jpg

the town has to adopt the uniform code...it can be modified at the pleasure of the governing body

the one you are showing also EXCLUDES it based on the proximity of sewer.

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Funny thing is when I moved to this house 18 years ago there was a capped well -- One day I happened to see a well truck across the street at a relatives home to the previous owner of my house

 

I walked over and introduced myself, asked about my capped well -- Figured I'd knock off the capped portion and hook up for irrigation -- Guy said the state got involved, forced them to cap the contaminated well and sent an inspector to watch them fill the entire casing up with cement -- I forget how deep it was but he said it's concrete, all the way down to the bottom

Federally illegal, unless you have a well drilling license. That goes beyond state law and codes.

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the town has to adopt the uniform code...it can be modified at the pleasure of the governing body

the one you are showing also EXCLUDES it based on the proximity of sewer.

Every municipality in NJ uses that same exact code book. Every inspector in every municipality, including those municipalities that don't have their own code enforcement officials and use state inspectors. Those are the state minimum standards. Townships may adopt further specific restrictions with state approval from the DCA. I spent 4 years in school being taught exactly how the codes work. By a state inspector. And I go to continuing education every two years to renew my license as required. Where we go over any changes to the code. I think I have a decent grasp on how things work considering my career evolves around the contents of this code.

 

Yes a townships can decide that distance from lot line and curb to the dwelling. That's why it's left blank.

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Federally illegal, unless you have a well drilling license. That goes beyond state law and codes.

Federally illegal to drill your own well? Even those shallow well heads you hammer into the ground with the pipe?

 

Anyway I wasn't looking to drill a well just reclaim one that might not have been so sealed up

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Federally illegal to drill your own well? Even those shallow well heads you hammer into the ground with the pipe?

 

Anyway I wasn't looking to drill a well just reclaim one that might not have been so sealed up

 

Everything is illegal.

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Federally illegal to drill your own well? Even those shallow well heads you hammer into the ground with the pipe?

 

Anyway I wasn't looking to drill a well just reclaim one that might not have been so sealed up

You can't tap into any aquifer in the United States, without having the EPA certification to drill. If you're in NJ you can't even legally break the seal on you own well cap. Only a licensed pump installer or well driller can. You can do your own plumbing work inside the house however. I can't open a well cap as a licensed master plumber. Unless I have a pump installers license. (Most of us thumb our nose at that, and do it anyway. Just don't get caught, the fines from the fed are insane) Safe water drinking act rules.

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Your other option would be to put a separate meter on your outside faucets, so you can deduct the water usage that doesn't go down the drains from your sewer bill. I've had customers do this.

Some municipalities/private water company's, allow a separate irrigation meter. Some don't.

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Guys -- help me understand this -- This is copied from the meeting minutes where the town council held a special meeting to approve the new sewer ordinance -- nothing else but the sewer ordinance was discussed at the meeting

 

 

​Section one is the new re-written ordinance -- section 2 is below --

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

SECTION TWO. The effective date of these changes shall be January 1, 2016 upon adoption of this Amendment to the Ordinance and shall apply to all sewer user charges under Article III, commencing with the calculated usage, flow and/or charges reflected in billings to users dispatched thereafter. 

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