Toddlers and HD guns? What is really safe?

[T Bill 649]

Hornady Gun Safe the new model 2700 and change the lockset on the bedroom door to a key lock type.  Lock the door when the grandkids are over.  Other than that, I do not know what you can do. 

 

No telling what a little one can do when they put their mind to it.   But, again, you house, your life, your rules.

[dino71 7]

You should ask this cop your question.

 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.washingtonpost.com/amphtml/news/post-nation/wp/2016/12/24/an-officers-2-year-old-son-dies-after-he-shot-himself-with-his-fathers-gun-police-say/?client=ms-android-verizon

[Smokin .50 1,907]

Here is my problem. I am fighting with my wife and my kids about the fact that I keep a Sig P229 .40 cal,

in my nightstand with a loaded magazine not in the pistol. (I gave up on condition 3) and they still want it locked in a safe or in a box in the top of a closet with no ammo.

 

I am a grandfather of two 3 year old boys and I feel that there is NO WAY they can rack the slide to chamber a round on that weapon.

My wife can't even do it! I on the other hand, I can't defend myself with a gun that is locked in a safe! Even a box safe with a combo is no go

as the kids could accidentally press the right buttons! No long arm may be available to me either as the kids could somehow get to it.

 

My family has become like the PRNJ! I can't defend myself anymore even in my own home! I would appreciate your suggestions as to how I should

handle this delicate matter. I don't trust bio metric safes nor do I want to be the first to buy a smart gun!

Your hasty inexperience has cost you your best option:  A  Mossberg model 500 Riot Gun (w/ top mounted ambi safety) in either 20 ga. or 12 ga.  Take the "somehow" out of the equation with a common sense solution such as a secure bracket in a closet bolted to the studs in a wall, or store loaded in a safe.  A 6+ pound scattergun is too big and heavy for most kids to pick-up let alone stroke into battery (if you go condition 3 w/ empty chamber & full mag loaded).  Yet it will do the job quite effectively when called upon.

 

Easiest way to make a 4 yr old leave a loaded gun alone is to take them to the range with a gallon milk jug and red food coloring.  Put the food coloring in the gallon jug and fill with water.  Explain to your Grandsons that guns are tools and tools are for grown-ups to use (like big noisy lawnmowers).  Then give a safety lecture and demo what a gun can do to the milk jug.  Tell them the red water is BLOOD.  Remind them that folks can bleed to death!  Don't hold back and don't CANDY-ASS the experience.  Let them learn and LEARN GOOD.  Answer their questions.  Take the mystery out of gun handling.  Let them help clean it (with gloves on to avoid lead) and give another safety lecture.  By the time they're 8 you'll be able to take them to a commercial range, sooner if at a private club.

 

Education and teaching responsibility is KEY.  

[gfl216 226]

Unless you are a drug or diamond dealer your chances of a random home invasion are probably significantly less than a child in your home gaining access to an unsecured firearm. While keeping the gun unloaded and the loaded mag separate is good, just imagine explaining to the police how the kid got the gun that they are showing to their friends at school or the park. BUY A SAFE!

[John712 6]

Keep them locked away in a safe man. Anything can happen, ANYTHING.

 

but do what I did. She told me I HAVE to get a safe to keep them locked in, so what did I do? I went and found a big safe that required me to fill up and buy more firearms. Win win situation

[Mr.Stu 1,918]

Hornady Gun Safe the new model 2700 and change the lockset on the bedroom door to a key lock type. Lock the door when the grandkids are over. Other than that, I do not know what you can do.

 

No telling what a little one can do when they put their mind to it. But, again, you house, your life, your rules.

This all day long.

 

These safes are built out of decent steel and won't be trivial to pry. They use RFID technology to open which has been well proven for years - way better than finger prints - and there's no combo to remember under duress. They run off mains power with a battery backup and there's a key to override if both power sources fail. It even comes with a security cable to tie it to a hard to move object.

[oldguysrule649 397]

My advice. Relying on your kids to not be able to rack the slide is a major mistake. The time will come when they can and you won' t necessarily know when that point comes. I have some difficulty racking my Glock 19 due to arthritis. I never thought my 6 year old (almost 7) would be able to. However he recently was able to do just that several times(unloaded, under my supervision, etc.)

 

I keep my handguns in a Fort Knox Pistol Box. Simplex lock that supports complex combinations ( eg 3, 1+4, 2).

Built like a tank. Weighs 22 lbs empty. Just purchased another one (gunsafesamerica.com) for the lower floor of my home.

As far as guessing the combination is concerned, one option is to change it periodically, much like best practice with computer passwords.

 

I have also begun teaching my grandson the safe and responsible handling of firearms. Eg Eddie Eagle, if you see a gun, dont touch it, leave the room, tell an adult, etc. I have assured him that I would show him my firearms anytime under my supervision if he wanted to see or handle them. (Safety checked, ammo locked away, ...). That has satisfied his curiosity and is teaching him to respect firearms. I plan on taking him to an outdoor range in the spring to shoot for the first time. In the meantime, he has amassed an impressive Nerf gun collection.

 

Hope this helps

[Zeke 5,504]

http://www.sportsmansguide.com/product/index/stack-on-low-pro-motorized-safe?a=408030

 

I have 2 of these bolted to the floor under her and my sides of the bed.

4 years 0 hiccups. I change the batteries when I do the smoke detectors.

 

It has enough room for my 229 elite stainless and my j frame together. And still has room for extra mags and booolits.

At night I tend to leave it open befor slumbering. Close when I leave for work.

 

This in conjunction with locking your bedroom door should win any "what if " agurements.

 

Smoking.50 is also correct. Teach them early and often these are not toys. The respect for firearms will tougher than any safe.

 

Hope that helps....

[ChrisJM981 924]

Electronic safes suck. Search for the YouTube videos and you will find almost every brand getting jimmied open with a coat hanger almost as fast as you can push the buttons.

I concur that there are issues with electronic safes. I'm with Troy on the FAS1 safes. Definitely a better product. The OP stated his wife and kids will say the toddlers can figure out the combination. My suggestion nullifies their argument.

 

For those long guns:

http://www.shotlock.com

 

Edit: I went through the same scenario with my wife over our toddler, and made the compromise as a way to keep my Walther in our bedroom.

[Smokin .50 1,907]

I concur that there are issues with electronic safes. I'm with Troy on the FAS1 safes. Definitely a better product. The OP stated his wife and kids will say the toddlers can figure out the combination. My suggestion nullifies their argument.

 

For those long guns:

http://www.shotlock.com

 

Edit: I went through the same scenario with my wife over our toddler, and made the compromise as a way to keep my Walther in our bedroom.

Really likin' those Shotlock boxes.  Best $149 insurance policy you can buy and mounts to a closet wall!  Even the paranoid can drill additional pilot holes into a stud in a closet wall and simply use more lag bolts.  And the DC external socket uses AA's found in a TV remote.  All you have to do is to keep the external battery holder in a sandwich baggie in your sock drawer  THIS is the type of mounting bracket I was eluding to when I responded originally.

[DaveR 42]

I keep my handguns in a Fort Knox Pistol Box. Simplex lock that supports complex combinations ( eg 3, 1+4, 2).

Built like a tank.

 

Same here, using the Fort Knox PB1 for something quick access  I don't trust anything battery operated to work when I need it, also don't trust anything bio-metric, can't see a fingerprint scanner working reliably if you hands are dirty, oily, bloody...

[myhatinthering 462]

I find your response nasty an totally uncalled for! You assume you know know more about guns and gun safety than I do? You do not know me at all!

I don't care what you think, I find your irresponsibility with firearms in this thread troubling.  I don't care how 'safe' you think you are, you cannot rationalize not having a loaded gun locked up despite your paranoia. 

 

Either lock it up or get rid of them

[myhatinthering 462]

I concur that there are issues with electronic safes. I'm with Troy on the FAS1 safes. Definitely a better product. The OP stated his wife and kids will say the toddlers can figure out the combination. My suggestion nullifies their argument.

 

For those long guns:

http://www.shotlock.com

 

Edit: I went through the same scenario with my wife over our toddler, and made the compromise as a way to keep my Walther in our bedroom.

great set up by the way

[Barms 98]

Don't even think about the "i will lock the room when they come over" as an option. You will forget.

[M1Thumb 30]

Two things.

1) If I had kids (thank god I don't), or if I knew there would be kids in the house, I would not be keeping any firearms/ammo unsecured.  Might not be today, or tomorrow, but eventually a kid will find that gun and shoot himself or somebody else.

 

2) It's none of my business, but...why are you letting your wife tell you what to do?  Tell her to get back in the kitchen! (semi-kidding)

[mustang69 505]

An unsecured firearm with kids in the house is IMO a mistake, and relying on their inability to rack the slide is a disaster waiting to happen.  Lock it up.

[Schrödinger's cat 87]

Interesting that this came up. I've been thinking about this because my two year old is getting more mischievous. For now I have the safety on and an empty chamber and it's folded (sub 2000) but I won't be comfortable with that for much longer. The FAS1 looks interesting, but it wouldn't fit my current HD gun. I'll have a Glock 41 soon, but the problem I see with the FAS1 is that it won't fit in my night table drawer, but more importantly, if I am in bed I want it facing the wall of my room but if I want to go grab it during the day I need it to face the front of the room.

[Oleg 8]

I have FAS1 and have a couple things to say:

- I practice to open it at night at least a couple times a week. After a year and some I still could not do it reliably on a first try. Call me stupid.

- I have a full size gun with a light. Holster fabric stretched a little over time and sometimes gun shifts and gets stuck in there. Safe opens but it takes effort and some wiggling to take the gun out.

FAS1 has a feature to disable lock while it is closed. I use it when I leave house for more than a day.

 

While I still consider FAS1 as a nice product, I am considering getting something else for a night stand safe.

[ChrisJM981 924]

An unsecured firearm with kids in the house is IMO a mistake, and relying on their inability to rack the slide is a disaster waiting to happen. Lock it up.

Not to mention it's a crime in NJ

 

2C:58-15. Minors Access to a Loaded Firearm; Penalty, Co

 

1. a. A person who knows or reasonably should know that a minor is likely to gain access to a loaded firearm at a premises under the persons control commits a disorderly persons offense if a minor gains access to the firearm, unless the person:

 

(1) Stores the firearm in a securely locked box or container;

 

 

 

(2) Stores the firearm in a location which a reasonable person would believe to be secure; or

 

(3) Secures the firearm with a trigger lock.

[YankeeSC 1,204]

Electronic safes suck. Search for the YouTube videos and you will find almost every brand getting jimmied open with a coat hanger almost as fast as you can push the buttons.

 

FWIW, safes serve different purposes, whether it is deterring criminals or keeping out small children.

 

I have this one and I am very happy with it.  I keep it under my nightstand next to the bed:

http://www.sentrysafe.com/Products/503/QAP1BE_Biometric_Pistol_Safe_

 

I understand there are drawbacks to this type of safe but it serves my needs and I accept the compromises. I do not have young children in my home and I test it every night.

 

Here is a review of a similar model (without the biometric access) where the reviewer shows how he can defeat the lock if the safe is not bolted down:

http://www.ammoland.com/2016/02/sentry-safes-quick-access-pistol-safe/#axzz4UFDzTYM9

[SuRrEaLNJ 294]

I now have 2 non-biometric gunvault deluxes, one shotlock shotgunvault, and im in the process of modifying the shotlock arvault i got the other day to fit an ak. Everything else is in the safe safe.

 

the gunvaults are not the best, and yes they can be jimmied open, but they give me quick enough acess to certain things, i like the knox type lock on the shotlocks better, but had the gunvaults first, if they were ever replaced or updated it would be to a knox type. 

 

have the 2nd kid on the way, so now the only thing accessible without keys or combo is a wall hanger with a triger lock on it

[Newtonian 453]

Sorry no sympathy for you or your grandkids. Didn't you read USAF Colonel (ret.) William Brickballs' recent article, which clearly states that all negligent or accidental discharges, including those in which large caliber bullets penetrate toddlers' skulls, are a result of SOFTWARE FAILURES? Teach the damn kids, have them take approved NRA training at Gun for Hire, until the laws of firearm safety are etched into their brains. If you do that you'll be able to run a toddler daycare facility with multiple handguns lying anywhere in the house in condition zero. And if one of those nasty accidents happens (god forbid) at least you'll be comforted by the knowledge that you were prepared for some Fallujah-type scenario in suburban NJ, which are all too common as they are in Pennsylvania firehouses. And you'll no doubt take comfort in the fact that the individual responsible for the ND will be able to take ownership of it. 

 

 

[Shawnmoore81 623]

I have a biometric pistol safe in my bedroom.

 

 

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[Smokin .50 1,907]

I have a biometric pistol in my bedroom.

 

 

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So you BOUGHT a Loretta Weinberg hand gun w/ Dick Tracy wrist watch?

[Zeke 5,504]

So you BOUGHT a Loretta Weinberg hand gun w/ Dick Tracy wrist watch?

I think he met biometric safe. I saw that also.

[Newtonian 453]

Not worth getting a divorce over whether your house may be invaded. Unless ...

 

I had a similar problem minus the spousal argument. I have "resources" on every floor that for my purposes are secure, safe, accessible, but I would hope effective. Whenever a particular person is home (rare), however, everything automatically goes into the safe. I have my reasons.

 

Living here 27 years our block has had zero robberies or burglaries, zero break-ins, zero vandalism, zero violent crime, zero suspicious individuals lurking. During the same time my kids have come home at 3:30am or wandered into our bedroom at least 75 times. I also used to, er, enjoy hearty servings of liquid spirits. 

 

 

FOR MY SITUATION my policy was/is correct IMO. You do whatever you want.

 

I sleep soundly.

[Shawnmoore81 623]

Sorry mistyped that

 

Biometric pistol safe

 

 

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[ramnj 8]

I keep one of my guns lock and loaded ready to go in case I need it, and the rest are locked in lock-box safes.  My kids and grandson are all adults.

 

Kind of surprised this is being asked...

[voyager9 3,434]

Kind of surprised this is being asked...

It's a valid question. May seem obvious to most (as the replies indicate). Isn't that why the forum is here? Besides Trump threads.

 

 

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[fishnut 2,358]

Soooo OP what did you choose to do?