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Any awesome pump shotguns out there?

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I am debating between a Remington 870 Police model and a Mossberg 590a1. While doing my research I started looking at Winchester, Ithaca, Weatherby, Browning, and CZ. I started wondering if anyone is doing it "right."

 

Pretty much every manufacturer (with the exception of Ithaca) offers all of their "tactical" models at a much lower price then Remington and Mossberg. The only difference is that none of them have a verifiable track record (that I could find), which leaves me skeptical.

 

Anyways, my question is as follows:

 

Are there any manufacturers that take all the best elements from the long time kings of the pump world and put them into one gun?

 

Specifically, dual action bars, dual extractors, steel receiver, mag tube w/extension that is clamped to the barrel, and doesn't cut corners to make more money (ala Moss. and Remy.)?

 

Price is not a huge issue if the quality is there. The Ithaca would be a candidate if they had a side ejection port.

 

I didn't include Benelli, Kel-Tek, or any of those other polymer wonders because I find them all a little too bulky, and they don't interest me.

 

 

 

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Short answer... nope.

 

Longer answer... look around for an older trade-in 870. Look for exterior finish wear, but good internals. If it is too ugly, refinish it.

 

My 870 Police...

 

IMG_0556.jpg

 

Oh, and there is nothing wrong with Ithacas. Run the gun correctly, and it will function 100%. Older Ithacas would fill in for an 870, just making sure it isn't shot to hell.

 

My Ithaca...

 

E4EFF032-064B-4542-A2B2-2B83454C9075_zps

 

42097A96-E7D3-4FEA-AA01-7722F0BF96B2_zps

 

E7743DAE-B4AE-4A9B-9080-836B4B0CC6D0_zps

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I love the look and feel of the Ithaca, but what do you do if it fails to extract in a pinch? It can be cleared, but not as readily as a shotty with a side ejection port, no?

 

The thing that scares me about the Remmy is that if the ejector breaks, it is not easily user serviceable. It is not a "major" part (receiver, bolt, barrel), and yet I would have to send the gun back to have it fixed. It also seems a little more common with the newer 870's. Is it something people are doing wrong? Not snugging the nut/ cap that holds the barrel in place down hard enough?

 

Really nice looking scatter guns btw. 

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I love the look and feel of the Ithaca, but what do you do if it fails to extract in a pinch? It can be cleared, but not as readily as a shotty with a side ejection port, no?

Meaning the shell is stuck in the chamber? Butt to the ground and pile drive the shell out... not really that different from a gun that ejects to the side.

 

If you mean double feed (failure to eject), you put your finger in the receiver and yank the loaded shell out from the lifter (arms do spread). If the fired shell is still in there, close the bolt and recycle it out (that would be short stroking the gun, and something to train on). Ithacas can jam (the KSG has the same things to contend to, as it uses a similar system), if ran incorrectly.

 

The thing that scares me about the Remmy is that if the ejector breaks, it is not easily user serviceable. It is not a "major" part (receiver, bolt, barrel), and yet I would have to send the gun back to have it fixed. It also seems a little more common with the newer 870's. Is it something people are doing wrong? Not snugging the nut/ cap that holds the barrel in place down hard enough?

I don't see that being a widespread problem. Do have to remember, people usually post on the internet when they have a problem... not regularly when their gun is functioning 100%. While it is a part that can break, training yourself on the gun should put enough rounds through it that it would go somewhat early on. I've personally have yet to have one break... and know quite a few people in the same boat.

 

Any design can fail. Simple single shot, break open shotguns have failed. Stuff happens. You buy a good design, run it to make sure it works, and you move on from there. Again, if something is going to fail, it should happen in training... because that is where majority of your use will occur.

 

Could the ejector go when you really need the gun? Of course... but you'd get a shot off. The primer could fail to ignite. An AR could jam, a revolver could lock up (even a no-lock one), a semi-auto pistol could have the magazine slightly ejected (giving you an empty chamber, which would be answered by tap, rack, reassess). While you should train to failure (training without failing isn't actually training... it is just running through the motions), don't obsess with X part breaking. Familiarize yourself with the gun, and know how to keep it going/maintained. If a serious part breaks, get it fixed and weigh if you want to keep it in that role.

 

If you don't like the Remington for the ejector, go Mossberg. I have those two designs, as well as the Ithaca. I prefer the Remington, then the Ithaca, and followed up by the Mossberg... mainly for controls. I like to be able to eject the round in the chamber on the 870, but keep the magazine from loading one in the chamber (Mossbergs, you just have to dump the other round). Like the safety/action release on the Remington/Ithaca over the Mossberg. But having the 870 bedside should be enough of a good example that I trust the gun.

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I probably ly have over 100k shells through my 21 year old mossy 500 and I beat the hell out of the gun. It's been in tons of foul weather, has a little rust in spots, been dropped several times and rarely cleaned. Only things that have broke were the wood handguard cracked in half and fell off (while I was shooting it lol) and one of the extractor pins broke (that did stop the gun) but that was only about 2 years ago. I'd say the mossberg 500 is a very durable gun.

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Pity you took Benelli Super Nova out of the running.  Really like the Super Nova Tactical with ghost ring sights.  It has a rich feature set for HD I like (3.5" chamber, forearm button that when pressed stops shells from feeding onto loading gate, gate that stays up when pressed, ghost ring sights) and with a Nordic Components Tube Extension with Pic Rail and Mesa Tactical side saddle  runs great at 7 plus one.  

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I mean I know that things can break, but it just seems that some models have specific problems that others do not.

 

I love the benelli supernova, but the size kills me. Weight is never a concern, but that feels like a big gun. I feel like I do not get a comfortable purchase on the fore end (because of size/shape). The receiver being thicker is also a turn off. If it was polymer and as thin as an 870 I would be all over it.

 

I could take or leave the ghost ring sights.

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BLF, the biggest problem is that the Remington/ Moss have similar ergonomics. The safety and action release placement don't mean much to me.

That's why I figured I would look for a "better" alternative.

Recessed, I am definitely over thinking it. I just want the right one for me.

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Just remember if the scattergun is for HD, pretty doesn't win gun fights.  Fit & having the controls where you think they are in the pitch dark in the middle of the night is what counts.  Don't be photographed inside a chalkline while layin' next to a pretty gun you didn't practice with........... 

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BLF, the biggest problem is that the remaining/ moss have similar ergonomics. The safety and action release placement don't mean much to me.

That's why I figured I would look for a "better" alternative.

Recessed, I am definitely over thinking it. I just want the right one for me.

It's funny because I am the complete opposite. Even though I like ribbed forend's versus smooth or a longer LOP stock versus short, in the end, safety and action release are two of the most important features for me in a shotgun. That's why I am a very avid Mossberg fan and have a bunch of them. The action release is in a place that I much prefer over Remington and I like the ambi tang safety.

 

The only other shotgun I own (other than really old ones) is a Winchester 1300. That thing is unbelievably smooth but I just don't shoot it that much. My Mossy's get more use. It may be on the chopping block soon.

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Appearances don't really concern me. I like a slim gun for practical reasons. I'm not a giant, and outside of pistols, I like compact guns.

 

The supernova seems to be the Ideal candidate, but (gonna try to explain it here) the bulkiness (?) of the receiver/ forend make the gun feel very awkward for me. 

 

The reason I don't care about the placement of the controls is that while I have some time behind an 870, I am going to dedicate some time and ammo to learning whatever I get. 

 

I guess there is no wrong choice here, so I think I need to just pick one and try it out. If I don't like it... well that's what the classifieds are for. lol

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I am debating between a Remington 870 Police model and a Mossberg 590a1. While doing my research I started looking at Winchester, Ithaca, Weatherby, Browning, and CZ. I started wondering if anyone is doing it "right."

 

Pretty much every manufacturer (with the exception of Ithaca) offers all of their "tactical" models at a much lower price then Remington and Mossberg. The only difference is that none of them have a verifiable track record (that I could find), which leaves me skeptical.

 

Anyways, my question is as follows:

 

Are there any manufacturers that take all the best elements from the long time kings of the pump world and put them into one gun?

 

Specifically, dual action bars, dual extractors, steel receiver, mag tube w/extension that is clamped to the barrel, and doesn't cut corners to make more money (ala Moss. and Remy.)?

 

Price is not a huge issue if the quality is there. The Ithaca would be a candidate if they had a side ejection port.

 

I didn't include Benelli, Kel-Tek, or any of those other polymer wonders because I find them all a little too bulky, and they don't interest me.

 

 

Don't overthink the selection. The 870 or 500/590A1 are probably your logical choices only because of the plethora of aftermarket products offered for each. The Model 37 is a great shotgun but is a niche offering with few aftermarket goodies offered for it. Pick the one that feels best for you. Each offers a feature or two not found on the other, so they all have their strong and weak points, but they've all been around for a long time and have a good track record and dedicated following. 

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BLF, I wanted to compare them all, so I went out and felt them up.

 

The Mossberg feels good until you actually manipulate the controls and try moving around with it. The safety was super stiff and i had to shift my grip to manipulate it. The forend had a good amount of lateral play which made it seem a little cheap. It was terribly unbalanced and front heavy. I can only imagine that getting worse when loaded. The Not that I cared, but the finish on the barrel was meh. I really wanted to like this one because on paper, it seems like the best choice. I also really like that the shell carrier stays out of the way when loading. 

 

The Remington was a cheap express model and it felt good. Balance was good, controls are placed acceptably. I was surprised that being a brand new gun that the action was buttery smooth. It may be my favorite.

 

When I was passed the Super Nova, I felt like I was being handed a NERF bazooka. It is just huge. It is a turn off for a pump shotgun. It feels pretty good in hand, and the controls are OK (a little harder to hit the safety because of the enlarged trigger guard). The stock and grip did feel really good, and when looking down the ghost ring sights you get a great sight picture. The forend however is what kind of kills it for me. I guess because of the ability to accept 3.5" shells, the action is long, and everything forward of the stock feels like it goes on for miles. The forend is very long, but I can only comfortably grab the rear 1/2 of it, and the front 1/2 is the part that I find more comfortable. For those reasons, the Super Nova is out. I couldn't see running and gunning with it. I'd rather have a Garand.

 

So I thought i was done at the shop, and the guy showed me a Kel-Tec KSG. It was pretty awesome, but waaaaaaaay off base from what I am looking for. I could see having some fun with it though. After the salesman shelved that, he said he had one more.

He pulled a Benelli M2 off the shelf. ZOMG. I felt like a little kid. It had the "look." And when I shouldered it, well, I felt like a little kid I was so excited. The grip portion of the stock was so thin that I had a comfortable and confident grip on it. The angle also placed my finger perfectly without having to "reach" for anything. The forend was also pleasant to hold. The whole gun felt like it was meant for me. Then reality sank in when I realized that it was almost 1k more than the 870.

 

So all day I have been debating weather or not to make the jump or not. I will decide by tomorrow after watching all the youtube videos I can find. 

 

Sorry for the essay!

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I think you're over thinking this. As BLF said, try them all out and pick the one you like most. Buy extra parts. Shoot the snot out of it. And that's that.

 

Come out to a NJGF shotgun shootout if you want to try out 20+ different shotguns.

If he does that, he won't want any of the shotguns he's considering after shooting what we all bring. Lol

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If he does that, he won't want any of the shotguns he's considering after shooting what we all bring. Lol

tell me about it. After shooting your citori this fall I just had to get an o/u. My Christmas money is gone but I now have a FN made winchester 101. Clays and pheasants beware!
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My 0.02....

 

First, shotguns are like potato chips....you cant have just one!

 

I have owned/shot a whole bunch of pump shotguns...but before we get into it, I am heavily biased toward hunting, and I am strongly left handed and also well-used to side by sides and over/unders, which means I prefer the safety to be on the back of the receiver, where I am used to it.  All of the pump shotguns I've had/used have been very reliable (except for a newer Remington 870 Express, which needed attention to make it reliable) Now, in no particular order, my thoughts: 

 

Savage 67 - Shoots fine, but kind of stiff and clunky.  Safety on back of receiver. Pain to disassemble/reassemble

 

High Standard - Shoots fine, pump action buttery-smooth; probably the easiest/lightest action of all the pumps I've shot.  Fore-ends tend to feel a bit loose.  Safety on trigger guard.  Not too difficult to take down for cleaning; however the magazine plug is a pain in the .... to remove and replace.

 

Mossberg 500 - Shoots fine, relatively light and easy to carry (aluminum frame), but most I've shot felt a bit loose and rattled a bit (but kept shooting and shooting and shooting...).  Simple to take down for cleaning, but the amount of dirt/twigs/junk they can be loaded-up with and still come-up firing is amazing.  Safety on back of receiver, where I like it.  recently added a mirror-image lefty version....not sure why, as shells flying to the right never bothered me.  

 

Remington 870 - pretty good feel to it.  Easy pump action to work; particularly the Wingmasters; which are noticeably smoother/tighter than the Express, and both feel tighter than a mossberg 500.  With a bit of polish the Express can be almost as smooth as a wingmaster, but not as tight.  easy to carry, but a bit heavy.  Newer ones (express) show spotty quality control - the last one I've had needed polish to the feed ramp to correct a well-documented extraction/jamming issue with low brass.  After polishing its been 100% reliable (but you shouldn't have to do that to a new shotgun!) Safety on trigger guard, but a mirror-image lefty version is available, as are replacement lefty safeties for the righty guns.

 

Ithaca 37 - Light (particularly the featherweights) well fitted, and easy to carry. Overall a nice gun for the woods.  Safety on the trigger guard. 37's tend to be purpose-built shotguns; most are fixed barrel and not readily changeable from one purpose to another.  Throws empty shells to your feet, which can be a little disconcerting until you get used to it.

 

Winchester 12 - a bit heavy, but a classic, well-made, well fitted shotgun.  Local gunsmith tells me he's never seen a "worn-out" model 12.  Works a little different from most pumps-you have to make sure you push the pump forward-THEN rearward-to work it.  loading is a little different...if you're not used to it, you will think the shell isn't all the way in the magazine.  safety on the trigger guard.

 

Winchester 1200 - middle ground between a mossberg 500 and a remington 870.  not as light as the 500, not quite as nice feeling action as the 870.  Safety on the trigger guard.  Ejector spring is a pain...if you don't put the barrel on correctly, you will ruin the ejector spring.

 

Browning BPS - A bit heavy, but extremely smooth, tight, well-made and well-fitted shotgun.  Safety on back of receiver.  Throws empties to your feet, like the Ithaca.  A bit of a pain to disassemble/reassemble.   If I could have only one hunting shotgun; it would be a BPS, with two barrels - one for birds and one for deer.

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W2MC, thank you for the write-up. I haven't even looked at the High Standard offerings. I like the Browning but they lack a 18" model. The Winchester guns seem really nice, however, I believe you put it best: "middle ground between a Mossberg 500 and a Remington 870." It is nice in it's own right, but I feel like the other 2 kind of "do it better." I think in general, I am leaning toward the 870 Police model. Good reliability, easy to find parts. and as configurable as a pump can get. Also seems to have a low cost of ownership. Reading all those descriptions kinda makes me feel better about my decision. lol

 

Shane45, why? Can you sell me on it? I know W2MC said shotguns are like chips and whatnot, but they do not appeal to me like that. That's why I was going with a classic pump. Is there any particular (objective) reason I should make the M2 my one and only? I mean, aside from showing off to my friends.  :vinsent:

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W2MC, thank you for the write-up. I haven't even looked at the High Standard offerings. I like the Browning but they lack a 18" model. The Winchester guns seem really nice, however, I believe you put it best: "middle ground between a Mossberg 500 and a Remington 870." It is nice in it's own right, but I feel like the other 2 kind of "do it better." I think in general, I am leaning toward the 870 Police model. Good reliability, easy to find parts. and as configurable as a pump can get. Also seems to have a low cost of ownership. Reading all those descriptions kinda makes me feel better about my decision. lol

 

Shane45, why? Can you sell me on it? I know W2MC said shotguns are like chips and whatnot, but they do not appeal to me like that. That's why I was going with a classic pump. Is there any particular (objective) reason I should make the M2 my one and only? I mean, aside from showing off to my friends. :vinsent:

Bitches love Benelli ask Socom

 

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Didn't comment on Benelli's since I've never owned one and haven't really had much interaction with them...I do know people who like them, but I have never shot a Benelli pump.

 

For High Standards....their Flite King was a staple back in the 60's and 70's, and they show up regularly on the used market.  They also made some of the finest out-of-the-box competition .22 pistols as well as shotguns, but they've been out of business for years.

 

http://www.imfdb.org/wiki/High_Standard_Flite_King_Shotgun_Series

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