myhatinthering 462 Posted January 3, 2017 Don't blame the press on this one. Completely ridiculous that this happened by an employee at a range. I posted in a dupe thread: I believe this type of carelessness cost a life at the range in PA of an employee. How is it that people don't know that guns are all loaded or should at least be handled as if they are. Checking before storage and checking when retrieving is basic safety. no i agree, i just look at the reporting as sensationalism. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
silverado427 10,681 Posted January 3, 2017 Was the firearm discharged in the showroom. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Shane45 807 Posted January 3, 2017 Some thoughts for consideration. My buddy has been to many track days and has completed a number of riding schools. By all accounts a very accomplished rider. So when it reached me that he had been killed on his bike, I thought for sure someone took him out. I persisted in asking how it happened and finally found out that indeed he made a mistake. It cost him his life. But the fact of the matter is that we are engaged in activities that come with inherent risk. We all strive for safety perfection. But keep in mind that is a goal. There will always be the human element. If you ride, sky dive, shoot etc etc you accept an elevated risk. Otherwise stick to knitting. From the gunshop all the way up to the USSS, there have been and will continue to be accidents. We all do our best to prevent them. It is my opinion that GSSC tries very, very hard to prevent accidents. But handle tens of thousands of customers and guns a year, there will be a risk. I am 100% confident they will analyze the incident and make changes where appropriate. 5 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AverageJoe 95 Posted January 3, 2017 There were multiple points of failure here, but in the end if we follow the "3 ALWAYS" this type of incident won't happen. 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Newtonian 453 Posted January 3, 2017 So you want to take away many gun range's primary source of income? This again? Last time around you guys had GFH pushing more Korean immigrants through their doors than all the kimchee restaurants in Fort Lee. Rentals should be legal because we have a right to shoot. Who gets to rent should be decided by the renter and the range. NDs are 100% the responsibility of the person holding the gun. That being said fatal NDs are dark clouds over our hobby. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Avalanche 42 Posted January 3, 2017 I expected as much, I respect the vehiment opposition to the idea, but just airing an opinion. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
remixer 1,645 Posted January 3, 2017 Without knowing all the details i would put blame on the person who checked in the gun after its rental and the person who checked out the gun for the new rental. You had 2 chances to stop this from happening. 2 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Slab Sides 20 Posted January 3, 2017 Definitely not removing blame for basic gun safety, but... I'm a member there and can tell you the counter where you sign in/out and walk by to get in/out of the range is the same counter they rent pistols from. It gets pretty hectic in that area when it's busy. IMO, they should move the rental counter so the employee can focus on the rental. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jpknj 6 Posted January 3, 2017 "It gets pretty hectic in that area when it's busy. IMO, they should move the rental counter so the employee can focus on the rental." I agree the last two weeks is so over crowded. Move the rental counter would be a great start. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zeke 5,504 Posted January 3, 2017 2 types of pilots Old pilots Bold pilots There are no old bold pilots. 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Screwball 483 Posted January 3, 2017 Definitely not removing blame for basic gun safety, but... I'm a member there and can tell you the counter where you sign in/out and walk by to get in/out of the range is the same counter they rent pistols from. It gets pretty hectic in that area when it's busy. IMO, they should move the rental counter so the employee can focus on the rental. Maybe they should have done that instead of taking D/Ls for range use... and not talking about renting only. That actually turned me off, especially considering they make a copy of your D/L when you fill out the waver. Turned me off even more when I questioned it (they used to not do that), guy behind the counter got snippy with me. While they are leaps and bounds past Brick Armory... I hope they do the right thing when they find out who is at fault. Don't know who the injured employee was, but there should be some other repercussion than a hurt hand. It should be instinct to pick up a gun and check it. Lucky it was only an isolated injury... but could have been a lot worse. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
YankeeSC 1,204 Posted January 3, 2017 I've taught my family from day 1 that the very first thing you do whenever taking possession of a firearm is you never assume a firearm is unloaded, and you check. No exceptions. I don't see how this incident has anything to do with rentals, how busy the range was, or anyone other than the employee that shot himself. 2 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Screwball 483 Posted January 3, 2017 I don't see how this incident has anything to do with rentals, how busy the range was, or anyone other than the employee that shot himself. Someone put the gun away with a live round in the chamber... while the injured guy was at fault for not checking, shouldn't have been a round in there. What happens if someone pulled that gun out and handed to a new shooter... not familiar with gun safety? Should have been checked, but people get comfortable very easily. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rscalzo 3 Posted January 3, 2017 The issue of rentals was the reason that smith and wession closed their public range on the manufacturing property. SPRINGFIELD, MA (WSHM) - The shooting range at Smith & Wesson is closed as the company looks into the complexities of running a public shooting range. This comes after law enforcement officials said four convicted felons wanted for violent crimes did their own training at the range. Renting firearms has it's own set of issues. How do you hold someone responsible for the basic safety areas when they have zero experience? As in the case with S&W, what does the range owners do if it's found they transferred a gun to a felon ? They have a significant investment in that facility and having an employee screw up can doom them. For years, Sig academy has make it mandatory that ANYONE taking a course on their property have a current state criminal background check on file, be law enforcement or a current carry permit. Many private clubs are going the same route. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AverageJoe 95 Posted January 3, 2017 This was not a gun rental issue, this was gun handling fundamentals 101 issue. 7 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zeke 5,504 Posted January 3, 2017 This was not a gun rental issue, this was gun handling fundamentals 101 issue.It's between you and HE for the trophy on this. I still like his " I should be able to put 1000 loaded guns on the rental table and not have an nd" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Newtonian 453 Posted January 3, 2017 Not a very good testimonial for this place. Gross employee carelessness, hectic atmosphere where guns are turned in. At least two points where the place fucked up. Glad I gave up on indoor ranges. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
fatty 241 Posted January 3, 2017 This again? Last time around you guys had GFH pushing more Korean immigrants through their doors than all the kimchee restaurants in Fort Lee. Rentals should be legal because we have a right to shoot. Who gets to rent should be decided by the renter and the range. NDs are 100% the responsibility of the person holding the gun. That being said fatal NDs are dark clouds over our hobby. What's with you and your Korean references? You have something against Korean people? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AverageJoe 95 Posted January 3, 2017 What's with you and your Korean references? You have something against Korean people? He hates apples, pineapples, and pens. 2 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Krdshrk 3,877 Posted January 3, 2017 He hates apples, pineapples, and pens. That guy's Japanese Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AverageJoe 95 Posted January 3, 2017 That guy's Japanese Same difference lmao Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Newtonian 453 Posted January 3, 2017 What's with you and your Korean references? You have something against Korean people? Yes since Pearl Harbor and 9/11. Bastards. I hate Kalmyks even more. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
matty 810 Posted January 3, 2017 Its like that location is cursed or something...... 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
fishnut 2,358 Posted January 3, 2017 Without knowing all the details i would put blame on the person who checked in the gun after its rental and the person who checked out the gun for the new rental. You had 2 chances to stop this from happening. while I agree both people violated most of the basic rules to gun safety the guy who just ruined his hand for life is responsible for the gun going off. I put a loaded handgun away every morning when I go to work and take it out when I get home. Every time I leave my house I lock up my loaded handgun and take it out again when I get home. I've never had a ND and I won't ever have one because I follow the 4 rules. 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Shane45 807 Posted January 4, 2017 Everyone says they will never have one..... until they do! 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
fishnut 2,358 Posted January 4, 2017 Everyone says they will never have one..... until they do!very true but there has been plenty of gun owners who lived and died without ever having a ND. Some get complacent and some dont. 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Schrödinger's cat 87 Posted January 4, 2017 Yes since Pearl Harbor and 9/11. Bastards. I hate Kalmyks even more. 9/11 and Korea ? For that matter Pearl Harbor and Korea ? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites