robot_hell 72 Posted January 7, 2017 This guy, Santiago, actually followed the correct procedure for transport of a weapon. He didn't really have much of a choice, because if he didn't, he wouldn't have been allowed on that plane. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JackDaWack 2,894 Posted January 7, 2017 GRIZ I agree, before we start talking about PTSD we should probably find out if this guy even really saw "action" in the sandbox. It sounded like he was an engineer of some sort and may have never left a base.... It could just be he's fucked in the head and the war had very little to do with it. ISIS was also barely a thing back in 2010. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sig226GuyNJ 128 Posted January 7, 2017 I have a question. Can you travel on airlines with loaded mags? I would assume you can't. So, if you can't, how did he manage to load multiple mags without anyone seeing him? I don't see any mention of him going to the bathroom or anything. All I've read and heard so far, is that he retrieved his luggage, and starting shooting people. When did he load his mags? Or were they already loaded? If so, how did he fly with loaded mags in his luggage? 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JackDaWack 2,894 Posted January 7, 2017 I read in early reports he did in fact go to a bathroom. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
HBecwithFn7 296 Posted January 7, 2017 I have a question. Can you travel on airlines with loaded mags? I would assume you can't. So, if you can't, how did he manage to load multiple mags without anyone seeing him? I don't see any mention of him going to the bathroom or anything. All I've read and heard so far, is that he retrieved his luggage, and starting shooting people. When did he load his mags? Or were they already loaded? If so, how did he fly with loaded mags in his luggage? No, it's been widely reported that he went into the bathroom and loaded up there. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Purple Patrick 638 Posted January 7, 2017 I have a question. Can you travel on airlines with loaded mags? I would assume you can't. So, if you can't, how did he manage to load multiple mags without anyone seeing him? I don't see any mention of him going to the bathroom or anything. All I've read and heard so far, is that he retrieved his luggage, and starting shooting people. When did he load his mags? Or were they already loaded? If so, how did he fly with loaded mags in his luggage?So it all depends:<br /><br /> TSA<br /> Ammunition<br /> Ammunition is prohibited in carry-on baggage, but may be transported in checked baggage.<br /> Firearm magazines and <b>ammunition clips, whether loaded or empty, must be securely boxed or included within a hard-sided case containing an unloaded firearm</b>. Read the requirements governing the transport of ammunition in checked baggage as defined by 49 CFR 175.10 (a)(8).<br /> Small arms ammunition, including ammunition not exceeding .75 caliber*and shotgun shells of any gauge, may be carried in the same hard-sided case as the firearm. <br /><br /> <br /> American Airlines<br /> Ammunition must be:<br /> In the original packaging from the manufacturer or in packaging specifically designed to carry small amounts of ammunition (made of fiber, wood or metal), with a maximum of 11 pounds (5 kgs) per container or customer. <b>Ammunition is not accepted in magazines or clips</b>. <br /><br /> Southwest<br /> Ammunition<br /> Small arms ammunition for personal use (provided it is properly packed) is permissible in checked baggage only.<br /> The ammunition may be placed in the same container as the firearm and must be securely packed in cardboard (fiber), wood, or metal boxes, or other packaging specifically designed to carry small amounts of ammunition.<br /> When checking ammunition, Customers are limited to 11 pounds gross weight (ammunition plus container) per person.<br /> <b>Magazines or clips containing ammunition must be securely packaged (placed in another small box or in a secure cutout in the carrying case, in order to protect the primer of the ammunition).<br /> </b>Make sure guns are unloaded and definitely never transport a gun in your carryon baggage!<br /> Gunpowder (black powder) and primers or percussion caps are not allowed in checked or carryon baggage.<br /> <b>Loose ammunition or loose loaded magazines and/or clips are not allowed.</b><br /> Paintballs must be packaged in a leak-proof container and will be subject to limited release. <br /><br /> Alaska Airlines<br /> Ammunition<br /> On Alaska Airlines flights 001-999 and flights 2000-2999, up to 50 lbs.(domestic) and 11 lbs. (international - where permitted) may be checked. Customers checking in or connecting to Alaska Airlines flights 3300-3499 are limited to 11 lbs. of ammunition. <b>Ammunition must be securely packed in the original manufacturer's package or in a container designed for ammunition and of sufficient strength to protect it from accidental crushing or discharge (i.e. wood, fiber, plastic, or metal). </b>The projectile must be no larger than 11/16" in diameter, the size of a dime. Ammunition may be checked with or separately from the firearm. Spent ammunition shells will be accepted in checked baggage provided they meet the same acceptance procedures as live ammunition (e.g. packed in a crush-proof case) this signature exceeds the 15 character capacity count Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PK90 3,569 Posted January 7, 2017 No, it's been widely reported that he went into the bathroom and loaded up there. I usually unload in there. 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
HBecwithFn7 296 Posted January 7, 2017 I usually unload in there. Can you imagine, in light of this tragedy, the call for "more surveillance" of airport bathrooms???? Actually, I could see them doing it outside the entrance way/door. You'd think that someone coming off an aircraft would try and hit the first bathroom they could find (usually one "airside"), or, hit the bathroom in the baggage claim area *before* the bags start to arrive, therefore taking advantage of the wait time. For someone to retrieve their checked bags and then go to the bathroom... well, it might be legit, but probably worth a look by the security folks. They might even make it a requirement that you must leave the terminal immediately, upon retrieval of all your checked baggage. I can see the TSA PSA's now...."Go, before you go!" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gleninjersey 2,134 Posted January 7, 2017 All we go right right now is keep the victims and their loved ones in our thoughts and prayers. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sig226GuyNJ 128 Posted January 7, 2017 I read in early reports he did in fact go to a bathroom. No, it's been widely reported that he went into the bathroom and loaded up there. Thanks for the correction guys. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mipafox 438 Posted January 7, 2017 GRIZ I agree, before we start talking about PTSD we should probably find out if this guy even really saw "action" in the sandbox. It sounded like he was an engineer of some sort and may have never left a base.... It could just be he's fucked in the head and the war had very little to do with it. ISIS was also barely a thing back in 2010. While I don't know about him, Combat Engineers work, fight, and die side by side with the Infantry. They are exposed to combat and similar hazards. I have a question. Can you travel on airlines with loaded mags? I would assume you can't. So, if you can't, how did he manage to load multiple mags without anyone seeing him? I don't see any mention of him going to the bathroom or anything. All I've read and heard so far, is that he retrieved his luggage, and starting shooting people. When did he load his mags? Or were they already loaded? If so, how did he fly with loaded mags in his luggage? Yes, you can. The requirement is that ammunition be contained. A loaded mag in the box with your handgun is not good enough because the round is exposed inside the box. I know it is dumb, but that's the way it is. If you put a mag cover on the mag or put it into a pouch it becomes fine. US Air (still around?) doesn't want the ammo in the gun box but TSA has no such rules. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mipafox 438 Posted January 7, 2017 I usually unload in there. I load up in there. I put my gun box and holster at the top of the inside of my bag and have the double zippers locked at the top of the bag as well. That way I get in the can and just crack it open and arm up without having to screw with it, lay it down, or any of that nonsense. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PK90 3,569 Posted January 7, 2017 I load up in there. I put my gun box and holster at the top of the inside of my bag and have the double zippers locked at the top of the bag as well. That way I get in the can and just crack it open and arm up without having to screw with it, lay it down, or any of that nonsense. I guess my statement went over your head. 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mipafox 438 Posted January 7, 2017 Ha ha Guys never grow up. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GRIZ 3,365 Posted January 7, 2017 General is general, not honorable. See my earlier post. You are going to confuse these guys. You are thinking of "under honorable conditions."You're wrong on this. A General Discharge can be under honorable conditions or other than honorable. A General Discharge is given when the service member is being released from their obligation due to a variety of reasons. Some honorable some other than honorable. Some examples of General under honorable conditions: Medical conditions not related to military service Poor performance often due to a medical condition General under other than honorable conditions: Servicemember has become a general screwup Repeated misbehavior for minor offenses (Article 15s) In practice some servicemembers who really should be discharged under other than honorable are often given a General under honorable to get rid of them. There is a requirement for the servicemember to acknowledge that a General under Honorable Conditions may result in some prejudice later in life. One keeps just about all veterans benefits with a General under Honorable Conditions. Wanting to give someone a General under Other than Honorable entitles the servicemember appeal rights and loss of many veteran benefits. A General under Honorable Conditions might be offered to expedite getting the guy out of the service. All servicemembers in the Army discharged under other than honorable are reduced to E1. This guy wasn't. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mipafox 438 Posted January 7, 2017 You're wrong on this. A General Discharge can be under honorable conditions or other than honorable.That's exactly what I said! I said it could be under honorable conditions. You said it could be Honorable, which I had a problem with because a General is NOT an Honorable Discharge and that is how people get confused about this. I'm just trying to be clear hear because this is what confuses people, not trying to nitpick. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rob0115 1,105 Posted January 7, 2017 General or Honorable? ABC was saying Honorable Discharge. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk General. Discharged for bad performance standards. It was not honorable. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Indianajonze 379 Posted January 7, 2017 its a tragedy, it was terrible blah blah. all i know is now there's going to be a huge national debate about MORE gun control, MORE airport security, banning checking guns in baggage, etc all because of one mentally unstable jackass. 330 million people in this country, and because of one person everything will change, just like the aftermath of the shoe bomber. a few years from now some other enterprising crazy person will do something unanticipated and we'll start it all over again. the endgame here is a total police state folks, because you simply cannot account for the endless possibilities of crazy people to do harm in public spaces, and i cannot understand how all the talking heads don't see this. or maybe they do, and a total police state is in fact the endgame... 2 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GRIZ 3,365 Posted January 7, 2017 That's exactly what I said! I said it could be under honorable conditions. You said it could be Honorable, which I had a problem with because a General is NOT an Honorable Discharge and that is how people get confused about this. I'm just trying to be clear hear because this is what confuses people, not trying to nitpick. Okay, I agree with above. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zeke 5,504 Posted January 7, 2017 its a tragedy, it was terrible blah blah. all i know is now there's going to be a huge national debate about MORE gun control, MORE airport security, banning checking guns in baggage, etc all because of one mentally unstable jackass. 330 million people in this country, and because of one person everything will change, just like the aftermath of the shoe bomber. a few years from now some other enterprising crazy person will do something unanticipated and we'll start it all over again. the endgame here is a total police state folks, because you simply cannot account for the endless possibilities of crazy people to do harm in public spaces, and i cannot understand how all the talking heads don't see this. or maybe they do, and a total police state is in fact the endgame...Guy walks into the FBI office. " hi,the CIA is making me work with Isis. Obama had Scalia killed. Obama made deals with the pharmaceutical companies so our kids get hooked on heroine." FBI guy " well as long as you are seeking ptsd or other psychological treatment we don't need to know if you have guns. Your prolly not a risk to yourself or others" Ya, that's how I see this. Yep, pretty much It is always a people issue! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tattooo 220 Posted January 7, 2017 Guy walks into the FBI office. " hi,the CIA is making me work with Isis. Obama had Scalia killed. Obama made deals with the pharmaceutical companies so our kids get hooked on heroine." FBI guy " well as long as you are seeking ptsd or other psychological treatment we don't need to know if you have guns. Your prolly not a risk to yourself or others" Ya, that's how I see this. Yep, pretty much It is always a people issue! Yep....they dropped the ball on that one 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GRIZ 3,365 Posted January 8, 2017 While I don't know about him, Combat Engineers work, fight, and die side by side with the Infantry. They are exposed to combat and similar hazards. Page 1 of the Combat Engineer FM used to list Combat Engineer combat missions as mobility, countermobility, and survivability. It then added "when not involved in engineering missions, engineers will fight as infantry". Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Cereza 106 Posted January 8, 2017 Yep....they dropped the ball on that one The FBI turned him over to local police who in turn checked him into a local hospital for a "welfare check." CNN reports his gun was taken away (source: cnn.com/ 2017/01/07/ us/fort-lauderdale-airport-shooting-main/index.html ), but he wasn't adjudicated mentally incompetent which would have prohibited him from owning a gun. (FWIW, had he been adjudicated mentally incompetent I don't know if the law would have allowed police to confiscate his weapons or require that he surrender them.) I don't think they dropped the ball, I think Santiago slipped through the cracks. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rob0115 1,105 Posted January 8, 2017 Yep....they dropped the ball on that one Again, don't forget the Orlando guy. This falls directly on leadership. Bye, bye Comey. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Silence Dogood 468 Posted January 8, 2017 ... then he flew 4,000 miles with a handgun (previously confiscated) as his only luggage and attracted no attention. IMO this should have attracted some attention. Stop patting down innocent children and pay attention to adults, especially young adult men, 22 - 30, who have a previous history of turning themselves into the FBI as ISIS sympathizers. Especially when they post photos of themselves in keffiyehs giving ISIS hand signs and when they live within 2 miles of the only mosque in Alaska. Sheesh. This guy should have gone right into the TSDB. If he had been detained by TSA in Anchorage, don't you think the FBI would have responded promptly after running his name with his prior history and the fact that he was flying alone with no luggage other than a Walther PPS and ammo? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Shawnmoore81 623 Posted January 8, 2017 Saw this on Facebook. Not sure how credible http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2017/01/ft-lauderdale-airport-shooter-pictured-islamic-garb-posted-weapons-forum-jihad-videos/ Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zeke 5,504 Posted January 8, 2017 Reading a report he was due in court for violating a restraining order. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Shawnmoore81 623 Posted January 8, 2017 Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnnyB 4,289 Posted January 8, 2017 EDITED TO SHOW ORIGINAL INTENT Even forgetting his prior history with the Army, FBI and Police. A ONE WAY ticket with the ONLY luggage being a pistol and ammo should have been a red flag by itself! But no, Too much work! THEY THINK IT'S Better and easier to just take all of our guns away than to deal with the real problem! The TSA needs to go to the Ben Gurion Airport in Israel for training on how to get it right for a change. That jackass would have NEVER gotten on a plane in Israel. See below, a clip from Wiki. "Ben Gurion International Airport is one of the world's most secure airports.[44] Security operates on several levels.[45] All cars, taxis, buses and trucks go through a preliminary security checkpoint before entering the airport compound. Armed guards spot-check the vehicles by looking into cars, taxis and boarding buses, exchanging a few words with the driver and passengers. Armed security personnel stationed at the terminal entrances keep a close watch on those who enter the buildings. If someone arouses their suspicion or looks nervous, they may strike up a conversation to further assess the person's intent. Plainclothes armed personnel patrol the area outside the building, and hidden surveillance cameras operate at all times.[46] Inside the building, both uniformed and plainclothes security officers are on constant patrol. Departing passengers are personally questioned by security agents even before arriving at the check-in desk. This interview can last as little as a minute, or as long as an hour if a passenger is selected for additional screening. Luggage and body searches may be conducted." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PK90 3,569 Posted January 8, 2017 "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety." Sent from an undisclosed location 5 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites