Jump to content
Hairless_Ape

M lok or Keymod?

Recommended Posts

Why do personality and "badassery" :rolleyes: trump strength and reliability?

 

Here are two photos where the KeyMod lug pulled through the narrow portion of the slot.

E2D004AB-67C5-41D3-BBDA-BBBC7472696A_zps

 

9E12BF6E-4565-4577-9B00-5306BF1481E3_zps

 

Looks don't matter when there are functional drawbacks that degrade reliability. Besides, KeyMod looks like shelving brackets:

4BDA8CC8-C092-4F2E-9FA0-452EC20E7DF0_zps

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm stealing that pic and posting it to twitter fyi. Hilarious.

 

I haven't experienced any of those issues with strength. Keymod ppl say those are the result of early and poorly made accessories and not the fault of keymod tech. Magpul of course says the opposite and they created mlock to avoid such issues. It's a great debate (and I love debating). As far as I know they're both open source and anyone can use either standard.

 

That said, for me it's telling that of my preferred brands (noveske, bcm, Daniel defense, knights armament, black rain, adcore, lwrc) they're all keymod except lwrc which uses a proprietary system. Still, I'd have no problem getting an mlock rail either

 

Sent from my Nexus 6P

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm stealing that pic and posting it to twitter fyi. Hilarious.

 

I haven't experienced any of those issues with strength. Keymod ppl say those are the result of early and poorly made accessories and not the fault of keymod tech. Magpul of course says the opposite and they created mlock to avoid such issues. It's a great debate (and I love debating). As far as I know they're both open source and anyone can use either standard.

 

That said, for me it's telling that of my preferred brands (noveske, bcm, Daniel defense, knights armament, black rain, adcore, lwrc) they're all keymod except lwrc which uses a proprietary system. Still, I'd have no problem getting an mlock rail either

 

Sent from my Nexus 6P

 

 

Noveske - now offers mlok. 

DD - now offers mlok. 

knights' - now offers mlok. 

black rain m-lok

 

Only bcm and adcore haven't gone mlok. BCM hasn't seemed to get a lot of the memos on things like price, feature set, etc lately. Adcore looks like they simply might not be able to jump horses too much. LWRC remains off in their own little la la land. 

 

If you want to blame the accessories for keymod being the problem, it's a lot easier to make mlok accessories right, and easier for you the consumer to measure them as being in spec where it counts. I'll probably be going to one of them when my barrel is done, and that'll be mlok to date based on my research. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

heh actually it seems lwrc announced an mlock version of the di rifle at shot show fwiw

 

Well there you go. not really a new argument, but an extension fo something already mentioned form a different angle: if it's easier for me to see if something is in spec, it's easier for the manufacturer to do proper quality control to. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well, I tossed a QD Mount and short rail on my new SUB-2000 (Gen 2, .40 M&P, in nickel boron). If I ever decide to pick one of the two... KeyMod.

 

Yes, both work... but getting the nut correctly positioned on M-LOK is a pain in the nuts. Took me longer doing that then stripping the gun, cleaning/lubricating it, and putting it back together.

 

In regards to those KeyMod pictures with the slot yanked out... I'd want to know who did the install prior to passing judgement. When finally got the M-LOK stuff on, first thought that likely would have gone through my mind if I didn't have any idea of mounting things to a gun would have been... crank that screw down. M-LOK with any polymer part (mount or accessory) should be tightened to 15 inch/pounds. If both are metal, 32 inch/pounds. Having a torque wrench for inch/pounds is important for mounting optics and alike... especially if you have no idea what 15 inch/pounds feels like.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Looks like the USSOCOM selected MLOK.

 

http://soldiersystems.net/2017/03/31/ussocom-selects-m-lok-for-weapon-programs/

Naval Surface Warfare Center, Crane Division (NSWC Crane) conducted testing for the United States Special Operations Command (USSOCOM) to evaluate modular rail systems and provide a recommendation based on the performance characteristics of each system. Modular rail systems were evaluated for repeatability, endurance, rough handling, drop testing, and static failure load. Where possible, handguards manufactured in different modular rail systems, but otherwise identical, were used as a basis for a comparative analysis. All tested modular rail systems showed to be adequate for securing accessories during cyclic loading through endurance and rough handling testing. However, distinct performance differences were observed from repeatability, drop test, and failure load analysis. Overall, test and evaluation demonstrated that the M-LOKTM modular rail system surpassed the performance results achieved by other modular rail systems. In repeatability testing, M-LOKTM allowed for the repeated installation of the same accessory rail in the same location on a handguard with an average point of aim (POA) shift of 1.3 MOA, as low as one quarter the average POA shift observed by other modular rail systems. Drop test results demonstrated that M-LOKTM systems maintain securement of accessories to the handguard and sustain less damage from impact forces than some other modular rail systems. Failure load testing demonstrated that M-LOKTM systems support the highest load of all modular rail systems tested. In fact, the test equipment used to interface with 1913 accessory rails secured with the respective modular rail system across testing repeatedly failed prior to failure of the M-LOKTM attachment system. Even so, testing of the M-LOKTM systems failed at loads as high as over three times the maximum failure load of some other modular rail systems. NSWC Crane recommended to USSOCOM that the M-LOKTM modular rail system be utilized over the alternative systems tested. USSOCOM has chosen to incorporate the M-LOKTM modular rail system in acquisition efforts including the Suppressed Upper Receiver Group (SURG) and Advanced Sniper Rifle (ASR).

Of additional note, the US Army directed H&K to integrate an M-LOK rail (designed by Geissele) on the new Compact Semi-Automatic Sniper System rifle which is an indication of wider DOD adoption of M-Lok.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
59 minutes ago, Hairless_Ape said:

Those drop test results are all I need to see...I'll never purchase a Keymod handguard.

The repeatability surprised me in the gap between systems.  I knew MLOK was better in that regard but I didn't know it was quite that much better.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
20 hours ago, fatty said:

I'm way behind the curve here... still using good old rails lol.

M-lok it is for future reference

Rails are fine, no need to jump on the latest wiz-bang gizmo that pops up.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yup. Rails are fine. They work and will continue to work for quite some time.

But, if you want to cut some weight, ditching a rail for a tube is an easy and affordable way to drop ounces.

I also have come to prefer the slimmer feel of the tube type hand guards, and the elimination of the rail sections streamlines everything, removes a failure point, and cuts even more weight. Win win win. (Big fan of the Troy tubes for guns with a standard AR barrel nut and pinned muzzle device, and the ALG EMR on new builds. Looking hard at the Hodge tubes now as well for any new builds that will be using a laser)

In reality, If you are not putting anything other than a vert grip and a white light on your hand guards, the plastic Magpul MOE or MLOK hand guards will do everything you need in an effective, lightweight, and very affordable package - including direct attachment of light mounts and grips without needing a rail section.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
25 minutes ago, High Exposure said:

Yup. Rails are fine. They work and will continue to work for quite some time.

But, if you want to cut some weight, ditching a rail for a tube is an easy and affordable way to drop ounces.

I also have come to prefer the slimmer feel of the tube type hand guards, and the elimination of the rail sections streamlines everything, removes a failure point, and cuts even more weight. Win win win.

I also love the feel of the slimmer rails. This is my favorite so far.Stag-3T-new.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I got such great deals on both my 2-piece FF rails (DD omega and a Troy MRF) that I wouldn't replace them anyway.  Both are rock solid.  Those Troy FF tubes look great too.

 

Gotta say - DD did an excellent job with the Omega line considering how slim it is for a quad rail.  Perfect size IMO.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

7 hours ago, Ray Ray said:

I prefer the slim handguards that are pre-drilled for rail inserts.  But that's just me.  I have no skin in the game for this M-lok vs Keymod nonsense.

The more I think about it, the more I agree. Mine serves its purpose, and I'm not adding or removing accessories off the hand guard. Changing the optic on top... that's a different story. One of these days I'll find one that I like.

IMG_20130603_084049~01-2.jpg

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Just so we are all on the same page - 

the KeyMod and MLOK system aren't for the attachment of rail sections*. They enable you to remove the rail sections for direct attachment of your accessories to the rail. This removes weight, bulk, and another set of bolts/screws necessary to make the interface that can fail.

* You can use it to attach a rail section if your accessory is not KM/MLOK comparable and requires a 1913 interface.

 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, High Exposure said:

Just so we are all on the same page - 

the KeyMod and MLOK system aren't for the attachment of rail sections*. They enable you to remove the rail sections for direct attachment of your accessories to the rail. This removes weight, bulk, and another set of bolts/screws necessary to make the interface that can fail.

* You can use it to attach a rail section if your accessory is not KM/MLOK comparable and requires a 1913 interface.

 

Yes, which kind of makes it geared towards LEO (you) and military.  Those of us (civilians, 2A supporters and the like) really don't need it.  We put on a light and optic and call it ready for defense.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't understand your point Ray.

You get the same benefit from using a direct attach system as a LEO, Mil, or citizen if you are attaching anything to your handguard - Light and Grip included. 

What's the downside to using a direct attach system on a rifle that isn't for a LEO or Mil?

They typically cost a little less and weigh a lot less, than full railed systems (less matrial and less machining) and, if of similar quality, are priced around the same as other tube type hand guards that require a rail section to secure accessories (you can't compare a UTG model to a Daniel Defense model, etc...)

Like I said many times earlier, the $30 Magpul Plastic Handguards (which are now MLOK by the way ;) ) are fine if you are just installing a light and a grip - my Patrol Rifle and HD rifle are both set up this way.

But.... If you are going to go the extra mile and use a free float tube, and I can understand not retrofitting existing systems that are adequate, to discount a lighter, simpler, stronger system out of hand in favor of a less capable system seems short sighted.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm just saying I put together an AR and it's done.  LEO's or military units might put on or take off different things depending on the mission.

BTW, your posts are really informative.   I like reading them.  And I miss you.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.



×
×
  • Create New...