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Yes, I made an IWB assumption and forgot you can OWB with a concealment garment. I thought that was a little big for IWB.

It's massive. Maybe if I tooK the light off or went to the 3.8 gun then yeah.

I would throw on a jacket and hide it that way.

CZ P07 Compact for apendix carry

VP9 for IWB

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For iwb, do most go somewhere between 2-4 o'clock?

My understanding is that it's either one or the other (more or less), depending on body type and comfort level. I think 3:00 is harder to conceal, and tends to get more in the way.

 

Don't forget to move your holster ahead one hour tonight. [emoji12]

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro

Good one! Didn't want to see that go by unacknowledged.
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I have decided that for my CCW I will use one of my full-size 9mm handguns since I am the most comfortable and accurate shooting with them as opposed to smaller handguns that many gun manufacturers are pushing for CCW.

Earlier this week I finally received the two custom made holsters, one inside the waist band (IWB) and one outside the waistband (OWB), that I had ordered back in early April from Mitch Rosen Extraordinary Gunleather as well as one IWB holster from Alien Gear Holsters.

From my research on holster manufacturers, I discovered that most only make holsters for the most common handguns and use dummy molds of those handguns to form their holster leather or other material.  While I had originally wanted to get a holster for my HK P30L, nobody had the molds for this specific handgun, where its barrel is one half inch longer than the standard HK P30.  I would have to send my P30L to the holster maker for them to use as a guide, something that I am reluctant to do.

So I decided to make my Sig Sauer P226 MK25, also in 9mm, my CCW handgun.  I find that I am more accurate with a heavier handgun and it is a common model that has been around for awhile and therefore the holster makers all have holsters to accommodate it.

My attitude is why just go with one style or approach?  Try a number of holsters and change them like one does with summer vs. winter clothing.  So with that in mind and from my research I decided to purchase a new, mixed high-tech material, (kydex shell mounted on a steel, nylon, neoprene backer) IWB holster, as well as two more traditional custom leather holsters. One IWB and the other OWB.  I even elected to get the matching custom leather belts that have a steel ribbon band sandwiched between the cowhide leather that is strong and sturdy enough to support the gun and holster.  Here is what I ordered and have now received:

Alien Gear Holsters
Railed Cloak Tuck 3.0 IWB Holster

http://aliengearholsters.com/alien-gear-cloak-tuck-3-0-iwb-holster-inside-the-waistband.html

Alien Gear Gun Belt, (Black Leather w/ Flat Black Buckle)
http://aliengearholsters.com/alien-gear-gun-belt.html

Mitch Rosen Extraordinary Gunleather
Uncle Sal’s Decision (USD) II (IWB) Holster (Light Brown)

http://mitchrosen.com/products/holsters/inside-waistband-holsters/

Mitch Rosen Extraordinary Gunleather
Premier (PREM) with Full Detailing (On the Belt) (Light Brown)

http://mitchrosen.com/products/holsters/belt-holsters/

Mitch Rosen Extraordinary Gunleather
1 ½ inch width strapping leather with tapered ends (Light Brown)

http://mitchrosen.com/products/belts/

I am wearing all of these holsters (separately), with their respective belts, inside my house to get use to them, and allow them to better form and shape to my body/waist, as well as to see which I consider more comfortable.  So far, the Alien Gear holster is the most comfortable and least noticeable.  Yet, I love the look, work-of-art craftsmanship, and wonderful leather aroma of the Mitch Rosen holsters.  Now all I need to do is find a dedicated CCW training course somewhere in the northeast US that works with my schedule…

AVB-AMG
 

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I'm a leather holster fan and 95% of the time my needs are met by DeSantis.  A quality leather holster will last you a lifetime plus.  I still use holsters I bought back in the 70s.  The jury is still out on Kydex.  Let me know in 40 years.   Kydex doesn't help concealment.  It's hard it has to hold the gun away from your body.  A leather holster like a Speed Scabbard holds it in tight.  Helps retentention too.

The reason for the popularity of Kydex?  It's cheap compared to leather.

But what can I know? I've only been carrying a gun on a daily basis for about 45 years.

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27 minutes ago, GRIZ said:

I'm a leather holster fan and 95% of the time my needs are met by DeSantis.  A quality leather holster will last you a lifetime plus.  I still use holsters I bought back in the 70s.  The jury is still out on Kydex.  Let me know in 40 years.   Kydex doesn't help concealment.  It's hard it has to hold the gun away from your body.  A leather holster like a Speed Scabbard holds it in tight.  Helps retentention too.

The reason for the popularity of Kydex?  It's cheap compared to leather.

But what can I know? I've only been carrying a gun on a daily basis for about 45 years.

If you think a kydex holster has to push the gun away from you, I highly recommend you take a look at some of the more modern offerings like the RCS VG2/VG3 or Eidolon.  Kydex being relatively inflexible results in less material being used so the holster is thinner than a leather one.  Additionally, Kydex doesn't deform the way leather can and does.  Mitigating and preventing any intrusion into the trigger guard when carrying a gun is a positive.  

Kydex's popularity isn't because it's cheap.  A good Kydex holster will cost a fair bit though not quite as much as leather.  If leather was the clearly better option, we'd see more of it in professional use but I literally cannot tell you the last time I saw a serious shooter wearing a leather holster in class.

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22 minutes ago, MidwestPX said:

If you think a kydex holster has to push the gun away from you, I highly recommend you take a look at some of the more modern offerings like the RCS VG2/VG3 or Eidolon.  Kydex being relatively inflexible results in less material being used so the holster is thinner than a leather one.  Additionally, Kydex doesn't deform the way leather can and does.  Mitigating and preventing any intrusion into the trigger guard when carrying a gun is a positive.  

This guy knows firsthand:

http://www.itstactical.com/warcom/firearms/safety-warning-worn-leather-holsters-can-cause-accidental-discharges/

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11 minutes ago, Krdshrk said:

I'm personally familiar with it as well though I caught it before it resulted in an AD and immediately retired the holster in the circular filing cabinet.

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3 hours ago, MidwestPX said:

If you think a kydex holster has to push the gun away from you, I highly recommend you take a look at some of the more modern offerings like the RCS VG2/VG3 or Eidolon.  Kydex being relatively inflexible results in less material being used so the holster is thinner than a leather one.  Additionally, Kydex doesn't deform the way leather can and does.  Mitigating and preventing any intrusion into the trigger guard when carrying a gun is a positive.  

Kydex's popularity isn't because it's cheap.  A good Kydex holster will cost a fair bit though not quite as much as leather.  If leather was the clearly better option, we'd see more of it in professional use but I literally cannot tell you the last time I saw a serious shooter wearing a leather holster in class.

The VG2 offers zero protection for the gun.   If you're sweating you're sweating all over the gun. The Eidolon doesnt look bad. However, it will still be hard pressing against you.  Okay, Kydex can be thinner. Say leather is 1/8" thick.  What's Kydex?  1/16?  A 1/16" is going to make a difference?  Yes, of you buy a cheap leather holster it can deform.  But I have good leather holsters that are 40+ years old that are not deformed in any way.

How many years have you been going to classes?  Kydex holsters are relatively new.  By serious shooter do you mean a gamer or someone who carries a gun that has a probability of using it.

Now there is a good application for Kydex AFAIC.  It makes sense for military and police duty rigs as its impervious to the elements.  If leather gets soaked it will take days to dry.  You can just wipe off Kydex.

I understand.  I'm an old guy who's been doing something for over 40 years.  What can I know?  I wear a leather holster so I must not be a serious shooter just an old one.

What do you mean by a professional shooter?  (added)

Edited by GRIZ
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1 minute ago, GRIZ said:

The VG2 offers zero protection for the gun.   If you're sweating you're sweating all over the gun. The Eidolon doesnt look bad. However, it will still be hard pressing against you.  Okay, Kydex can be thinner. Say leather is 1/8" thick.  What's Kydex?  1/16?  A 1/16" is going to make a difference?  Yes, of you buy a cheap leather holster it can deform.  But I have good leather holsters that are 40+ years old that are not deformed in any way.

How many years have you been going to classes?  Kydex holsters are relatively new.  By serious shooter do you mean a gamer or someone who carries a gun that has a probability of using it.

Now there is a good application for Kydex AFAIC.  It makes sense for military and police duty rigs as its impervious to the elements.  If leather gets soaked it will take days to dry.  You can just wipe off Kydex.

I understand.  I'm an old guy who's been doing something for over 40 years.  What can I know?  I wear a leather holster so I must not be a serious shooter just an old one.

1/8" thick leather would make me awfully nervous especially if you throw in the very real possibility of a scuffle where new and unconventional angles of pressure can be introduced.  The leather backer of my MTAC was 1/4" thick and still failed after a couple years of use.  I currently carry a full size M&P with X300U AIWB in a VG2 every day.  The midwest is no stranger to high temperatures and humidity (July is basically a daily race to triple digits between the two) so my guns get sweat and grime on them yet not a hint of corrosion.  The M&P specifically has been in this role for just under two years now.  The VG2 does fail to protect the front sight though and that's a legitimate concern.  I do check mine pretty regularly however if it was off, I'd probably notice since in the nicer months (like now), it gets shot every day on my lunch break.

 

I've been a formal student for over 5 years.  Class makeups are generally 1/2-2/3 armed citizens and the remainder being active MIL or LE however all share that mindset of wanting to learn to fight with a gun.  Even when we break for meals, I've noticed students universally putting guns in kydex IWB holsters (with the exception of sworn LE who open carry but again, in kydex).  Maybe some are using leather holsters and I just haven't observed them because it isn't something I've really been on the look out for or asked about regularly but that's what I can recollect.  You keep citing that you've been carrying a gun for over 40 years.  Just because you've been doing it a certain way without issue doesn't mean it's THE way.  Especially when you consider that gear and tactics are fluid and ever-changing and evolving.  People used to think small-of-back carry was a good idea too but we know now that it's not a very good option.

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21 minutes ago, GRIZ said:

The VG2 offers zero protection for the gun.   If you're sweating you're sweating all over the gun. The Eidolon doesnt look bad. However, it will still be hard pressing against you.  Okay, Kydex can be thinner. Say leather is 1/8" thick.  What's Kydex?  1/16?  A 1/16" is going to make a difference?  Yes, of you buy a cheap leather holster it can deform.  But I have good leather holsters that are 40+ years old that are not deformed in any way.

How many years have you been going to classes?  Kydex holsters are relatively new.  By serious shooter do you mean a gamer or someone who carries a gun that has a probability of using it.

Now there is a good application for Kydex AFAIC.  It makes sense for military and police duty rigs as its impervious to the elements.  If leather gets soaked it will take days to dry.  You can just wipe off Kydex.

I understand.  I'm an old guy who's been doing something for over 40 years.  What can I know?  I wear a leather holster so I must not be a serious shooter just an old one.

What do you mean by a professional shooter?  (added)

I ,like you, prefer the feel of leather against my hide.

 

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33 minutes ago, MidwestPX said:

1/8" thick leather would make me awfully nervous especially if you throw in the very real possibility of a scuffle where new and unconventional angles of pressure can be introduced.  The leather backer of my MTAC was 1/4" thick and still failed after a couple years of use.  I currently carry a full size M&P with X300U AIWB in a VG2 every day.  The midwest is no stranger to high temperatures and humidity (July is basically a daily race to triple digits between the two) so my guns get sweat and grime on them yet not a hint of corrosion.  The M&P specifically has been in this role for just under two years now.  The VG2 does fail to protect the front sight though and that's a legitimate concern.  I do check mine pretty regularly however if it was off, I'd probably notice since in the nicer months (like now), it gets shot every day on my lunch break.

 

I've been a formal student for over 5 years.  Class makeups are generally 1/2-2/3 armed citizens and the remainder being active MIL or LE however all share that mindset of wanting to learn to fight with a gun.  Even when we break for meals, I've noticed students universally putting guns in kydex IWB holsters (with the exception of sworn LE who open carry but again, in kydex).  Maybe some are using leather holsters and I just haven't observed them because it isn't something I've really been on the look out for or asked about regularly but that's what I can recollect.  You keep citing that you've been carrying a gun for over 40 years.  Just because you've been doing it a certain way without issue doesn't mean it's THE way.  Especially when you consider that gear and tactics are fluid and ever-changing and evolving.  People used to think small-of-back carry was a good idea too but we know now that it's not a very good option.

I don't understand what you're saying about an 1/8" of leather would make you nervous.  What new and unconventional angles of pressure in a scuffle have been invented?  I've been in more than one or two scuffles as a LEO over 30 years.  Never lost my gun or injured because I wore a leather holster.

The simple answer to the failure of the leather on your MTAC is inferior materials and/or workmanship.  I've never seen a quality leather holster fail.  I have seen cheap holsters of all types fail.

The VG2 protects nothing but the trigger guard.  Try carrying a blued gun in that VG2 on a triple digit day.  The fact is corrosion protective finishes have come a long way over the past 10-15 years.  The lack of corrosion on your gun has to do with the gun not the holster.

I've been a firearms and tactics instructor since 1976.  I don't list my credentials in my profile but they are more impressive than many of the hot shot instructors talked about.  If I spent the time I put in firearms and tactics training and doing, I'd probably have a doctorate in firearms and tactics.

So you've been going to classes back to back for 5 years?  Special Operators don't do that although their training is continual.  Or is it you take a couple of classes a year for 5 years?  I'm not busting your chops for trying to learn.  I wouldn't call a civilian who is serious about self defense a professional though.

I've already stated Kydex makes good sense for people LE and military duty rigs. These guys are doing the right thing training like they'd fight.

My 40 years of carrying a gun has to do with knowing what works.  I'm a firm believer if it ain't broke don't fix it.  I never said it was THE way.  It's THE way that's proven it works.  What caliber is your M&P?  9mm? 45? Those cartridges are over 100 years old.  A 40 S&W?  That's almost 30 years old.  Why aren't you carrying a 357 SIG or 45 GAP?  They're newer and using your logic just have to be better.  

The fact is the last few years is new.  All those other years are old. Probability would have it they made more good things in all those old years than in the past few.  I even carry a revolver a lot.  No matter what I'm carrying I carrying a BUG.  Paladin taught me that back in the 50s.

Gear and tactics do evolve.  But a lot of what is considered new is just rediscovering an old idea.  Tactical reloading is one.  Keep your gun as full as possible.  Reload whenever you can keeping the partially loaded magazine as you may need that ammo.  The agency I worked for taught that when we were changing to semiautomatics in the 80s.  Thing is I learned that 20 years earlier in Vietnam.  We didn't have a name for it.

I don't know which crew you're talking about when you say they used to think SOB was a good way to carry.  It was never used by the "professionals" I worked with.

 

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43 minutes ago, Zeke said:

I ,like you, prefer the feel of leather against my hide.

 

Just because a holster is kydex doesn't mean it's kydex against your skin - look at the hybrid holsters - kydex shell on a leather backer.  The leather part is against your skin.

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8 minutes ago, Krdshrk said:

Just because a holster is kydex doesn't mean it's kydex against your skin - look at the hybrid holsters - kydex shell on a leather backer.  The leather part is against your skin.

I did warn Midwest.

sooo you like leather against your skin also..

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I know it's not 40 years, but I have been carrying a gun everybday for just under 15 years. I got a Raven Holster, at the recommendation of Pat Rogers, when they were first introduced. They used to come to gun shows and would form a holster for any gun you had on the spot at the shows. It was awesome if you had something unique!

Since then I have moved entirely to Kydex IWB holsters for off-duty carry. If I am not using a light, my pistol goes in a Desantis Gen 1 Scorpion. If I am carrying it with an X300U attached, it goes in a Raven Phantom or JM Custom. I have been meaning to get a Titan Concealment holster for some time but haven't gotten around to it yet. I haven't had a leather IWB or OWB holster in almost 6 years. I do have 2 Comp-Tac hybrid holsters, but they don't see much use.

I find these kydex rigs to be comfortable and solidly made with excellent retention. They conceal extremely well, and keep the gun very close to the body. Most importantly, to me, for an IWB rig, the mouth of the holster doesn't collapse when you take the gun out making holstering easier and safer.

The skin issue is easily solved by wearing an UnderArmor type shirt as a base layer.

Most - maybe all (I can't remember the last time I had to qual someone on a leather rig or had a buddy that used leather) - of the shooters that I know that carry daily use some brand of kydex for IWB and OWB.  Some of these guys and girls are legit gunfighters with serious backgrounds that are incredibly detailed regarding their gear selection. Some are just regular people carrying for the right reasons. 

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Ares Gear Ranger or Aegis belts - Same belts, different buckles. IMO the best belt out there for CCW hands down, I have two - one black and one brown. I have worn one every day for the last 6-7 years.

If you have to have leather, the Comp Tac Kydex Reinforced Leather belt is hard to beat and is what I wear if I am in a suit.

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13 hours ago, High Exposure said:

I know it's not 40 years, but I have been carrying a gun everybday for just under 15 years. I got a Raven Holster, at the recommendation of Pat Rogers, when they were first introduced. They used to come to gun shows and would form a holster for any gun you had on the spot at the shows. It was awesome if you had something unique!

Since then I have moved entirely to Kydex IWB holsters for off-duty carry. If I am not using a light, my pistol goes in a Desantis Gen 1 Scorpion. If I am carrying it with an X300U attached, it goes in a Raven Phantom or JM Custom. I have been meaning to get a Titan Concealment holster for some time but haven't gotten around to it yet. I haven't had a leather IWB or OWB holster in almost 6 years. I do have 2 Comp-Tac hybrid holsters, but they don't see much use.

I find these kydex rigs to be comfortable and solidly made with excellent retention. They conceal extremely well, and keep the gun very close to the body. Most importantly, to me, for an IWB rig, the mouth of the holster doesn't collapse when you take the gun out making holstering easier and safer.

The skin issue is easily solved by wearing an UnderArmor type shirt as a base layer.

Most - maybe all (I can't remember the last time I had to qual someone on a leather rig or had a buddy that used leather) - of the shooters that I know that carry daily use some brand of kydex for IWB and OWB.  Some of these guys and girls are legit gunfighters with serious backgrounds that are incredibly detailed regarding their gear selection. Some are just regular people carrying for the right reasons. 

HE all that's fine.  You like Scotch, I like bourbon.  You like Roy Rogers, I like Wendy's.  You like Sinatra, I prefer Dean Martin.  You drive an automatic, i like my 5 speed.  We're  both right in these preferences.  You like Kydex, I like leather.  We're also both right.

You're not telling me I'm wrong because I like leather and you like Kydex.

Nylon was the first move to reduce costs.  The problem was most nylon holsters sucked and were just oddly shaped bags that carried a gun.

Kydex has taken a huge chunk of the holster market for two reasons.  Ease of manufacture and lower cost.  The first makes more profit for the manufacturer which allows for the second.  That doesn't make them bad.  There are applications where Kydex is superior as I've stated.

Weather protection issues in the military are nothing compared to the military. Having to have to carry a 1911 in a wet issued leather holster for days made you want something better.  Many carried their pistol wrapped in a plastic bag in the holster.  Thankfully we have evolved from this

I can remember when Fobus holsters hit the market.  I know they are injection molded and not Kydex.  People at work flocked to them.  A half or even the third the price of leather.  They had retention  issues but people loved them.

I've tried some Kydex and just can't warm up to them.  I've tried the DeSantis Scorpion and similar holsters.  I just dont think that paddle adds anything.  I prefer a Soft Tuk or a Milt Sparks Summer Special which stays open for reholstering.

Yeah, I'm a old guy set in my ways that aren't wrong. Just different.  I imagine in 25 years when they are making holsters from moon crystals you'll be telling everyone you like Kydex.  And there will still be people using leather.

Stay safe :)

 

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7 hours ago, fishnut said:

Looking for recommendations for a new ccw belt. 

Check out the Wilderness Instructor belt.  That's a great option and it is priced well.

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I need to order a belt from Alien Gear to try out.

I can say that their holsters are an excellent bang for the buck, especially the pair deal.  I'm hoping their belt is a sturdy one.

My regular carry gear is a R. Grizzle Leather reinforced belt, with either an R. Grizzle leather holster (I have IWB and OWB) or if i'm feeling loose on the clothing, SafariLand ALS 6378 retention holster.

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On 5/6/2017 at 7:09 AM, fishnut said:

Looking for recommendations for a new ccw belt. 

I have 2 beltman belts, a comp-tac belt and a soe  edc belt.

I like the beltman horsehide the best.

 https://www.thebeltman.net

https://www.originalsoegear.com/collections/belts

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