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orangesolo

What the f*** is this shit? - "See a Doctor, Lose your Guns." A2938

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It not only can, it does. Right now. Tonight while you are sleeping. The data is collected automatically, no warrant or suspicion required. And most companies save it for at least a year, before we even get to the NSA. And the cops can get access to it without a warrant. They do it all the time.

This...is a fact. Motorola...for example...puts some interesting code on their phones that relays data to obscure hosts.

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Every new turn you take... gets shut down. Sheesh.

 

I guess the "ultimate" answer is unchanged: just move out of NJ at the earliest possible opportunity!!!  For 10,000 reasons... most having NOTHING to do with 2A. The taxes, the congestion, the over-legislation, etc., etc.

 

How sad. Born and raised here. Used to defend the state to others. Can't wait to get out now.

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Every new turn you take... gets shut down. Sheesh.

 

I guess the "ultimate" answer is unchanged: just move out of NJ at the earliest possible opportunity!!!  For 10,000 reasons... most having NOTHING to do with 2A. The taxes, the congestion, the over-legislation, etc., etc.

 

How sad. Born and raised here. Used to defend the state to others. Can't wait to get out now.

This thread got me thinking if there will ever be a political solution concerning 2A in NJ.  As long as there is enough tax money coming in for certain social programs, there will be enough votes putting certain politicians in the office. 

 

People carry illegally in certain poor neighborhoods and ultra-rich and connected can afford their own security. Its the ones in the middle who get screwed on 2A. 

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Murders are not "solved" with insect DNA and blood splatter patterns. And setups are not done with them, either.

 

If your phone is at your house every night for 7 hours and at some dude's house once a week for 8 hours and going to and from your place of employment/church/family in-between it is pretty damn clear what is going on. There's not a lot of degrees of freedom in the calculation of most peoples' lives, and court cases are generally based on circumstantial evidence, not CSI TV baloney.

 

Yes, they know where you sleep if they want to check. You are not James Bond. It's very simple stuff.

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Your residency for tax purposes can be determined by time spent in a specific state but for the purpose of jurisdiction Your Domicile is what matters. The things that can be used to determine your domicile (not necessarily where you spend the vast majority of your time) are banking address, health insurance address, church or professional affiliations, primary doctors, accountant, storage of important items, car registration, voter registration, family ( where is my wife and kids living), etc, etc. No one thing is critical but taken as a whole it is able to be determined where someone considers their domicile to be.

 

In 1972 Supreme Court ruled no duration residency required for state voter registration. Only that the State be your intended domicile.

 

So if you "Want" to be a resident of PA even thou you spent 99% of your time in NJ get a physical residency in PA, click your heals 3x saying " I am a PA resident". Then setup the majority of your affairs to reference your PA address and store your prized baseball card collection there along with your favorite hat.

 

Definition of Domicile (State of legal Residency)

For purposes of jurisdiction, “domicile” means a legal residence which is the place where a person has fixed dwelling with an intention of making it his/her permanent home. Domicile is a combination of two factors namely, residence and intent to make it his/her permanent home.

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Fight? *in* nj?

 

You do not have the organization

You do not have the numbers

You do not have the will

 

In *this* state to mount a successful campaign to turn around 40 plus years and prevent what is coming next year.

 

It is nearly impossible to do so....

 

When you have AND I WILL SAY IT FUDDS....stating that ...well I have my bow....guess what I HOPE they get the 50 caliber ban and they can cram their inlines up their asses.

 

And please spare me the rhetoric, retreating, what have you done blah blah blah.

 

 

This state is a black hole why anyone would want to stay even negating the 2A oppresion, is beyond me.

Having never won, you may not understand how hard it is. In PA we have to lose 50 to 100 times before we win. It can take years, and it takes effort. Licking your finger and checking wind direction does not determine what you can and cannot accomplish.

 

You have more than enough people to get the job done. The trick is getting people like YOU involved.

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This state does not have enough money or the numbers to properly fight. We need BIG money and people to fight. The NRA will not help us; they need NJ to be the "poster child" for their fund raising campaigns. Sadly, we have neither. We are fighting uphill against the liberal, anti-gun, majority in this state. From the soccer moms to the minorities that do not have the ability to protect themselves because of the politicians in this state. The liberal, Democratic mantra is to make everyone a victim and dependent on government for their "protection". 

 

I have argued till I am blue in the face with women and anti-gun people I know about the anti-gun laws in this state. They have no clue, nor do they care about their rights to protect themselves and their families. "That's what the police are for" is what I often hear. Or "guns are dangerous and no one should be allowed to have them except the police or military".  You simply cannot change that mindset, even with facts. I saw it first hand when I was at the Tom MacArthur Town Hall meeting a few weeks ago in Waretown. Just listening to the mom's demand action shrills spout off, without having any clue as to how NJ guns laws work. 

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This state does not have enough money or the numbers to properly fight. We need BIG money and people to fight. The NRA will not help us; they need NJ to be the "poster child" for their fund raising campaigns. Sadly, we have neither. We are fighting uphill against the liberal, anti-gun, majority in this state. From the soccer moms to the minorities that do not have the ability to protect themselves because of the politicians in this state. The liberal, Democratic mantra is to make everyone a victim and dependent on government for their "protection".

 

I have argued till I am blue in the face with women and anti-gun people I know about the anti-gun laws in this state. They have no clue, nor do they care about their rights to protect themselves and their families. "That's what the police are for" is what I often hear. Or "guns are dangerous and no one should be allowed to have them except the police or military". You simply cannot change that mindset, even with facts. I saw it first hand when I was at the Tom MacArthur Town Hall meeting a few weeks ago in Waretown. Just listening to the mom's demand action shrills spout off, without having any clue as to how NJ guns laws work.

Arguing with women never works. But taking them to the range does.

Jus sayen

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This state does not have enough money or the numbers to properly fight. We need BIG money and people to fight. The NRA will not help us; they need NJ to be the "poster child" for their fund raising campaigns. Sadly, we have neither. We are fighting uphill against the liberal, anti-gun, majority in this state. From the soccer moms to the minorities that do not have the ability to protect themselves because of the politicians in this state. The liberal, Democratic mantra is to make everyone a victim and dependent on government for their "protection".

 

I have argued till I am blue in the face with women and anti-gun people I know about the anti-gun laws in this state. They have no clue, nor do they care about their rights to protect themselves and their families. "That's what the police are for" is what I often hear. Or "guns are dangerous and no one should be allowed to have them except the police or military". You simply cannot change that mindset, even with facts. I saw it first hand when I was at the Tom MacArthur Town Hall meeting a few weeks ago in Waretown. Just listening to the mom's demand action shrills spout off, without having any clue as to how NJ guns laws work.

You have over a million people. THEY are the low hanging fruit. I'm not going to bother to check the numbers, but they are probably 20% of the ADULT population and could be 30% of voters I would guess, if they bothered.

 

And that number is going up, not down. The trend is your friend. Will you defeat gun control in 2018? Probably not. It takes time, it takes work, and it takes a lot of losing before you win.

 

"Oh, hey, I showed up, and the next morning we don't have carry or thirty round mags. Oh well."

 

You people here on this forum are among the best of gun owners that NJ has to offer. As long as you refuse to go to your gun clubs, shops, and ranges to recruit people for the cause, or harass the crap out of your reps, because, "Ah, F it..." You are the reason that you have no hope.

 

It is your job. Not the other 1 million gun owners' job.

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Someone pointed out domicile and residence for different issues are figured out different ways. Under Federal law residence for purchasing firearms does not require you to live there a certain period of time. Has nothing to do with drivers license, car registration, who you pay state income tax to, or where you vote. It doesn't matter whether you own, rent, or you live there for free, you can have dual residency under Federal law to buy guns as long as you have a legitimate residence in that state. A residence not a closet, a room you share with 20 people, or any of those bs ideas.

 

If you were to fall victim to this law IMO it would have zero effect on your ability to own guns in another state. It could take away your FID. It doesn't say your guns will be seized from what's in the link. Yes, I know thats ultimately what they want to do. It doesn't meet the Federal definition of being mentally defective unless a judge says you are. Not a "licensed practioner" or the AG.

 

If you have dual residency it wouldn't effect you buying guns unless a judge finds you mentally defective.

 

If a judge doesnt If you have your guns legally stored out of state I can't see how NJ is going to be able to seize your guns. There are only a few exceptions where state law or state court rulings are enforceable out of state. Divorce, child custody and child support are a few of them.

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And when they post you to the Federal NICS list as unable to own a firearm?

Federal NICS most likely requires you to involuntarily committed or declared mentally defective by a judge. The law as quoted doesn't meet that requirement.

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Everyone talks about how gun friendly FL is. It is to most extents. FL has the Baker Act which allows involuntary commitment under emergency circumstances by doctors, mental health professionals, judges, and law enforcement officers. Even if you get committed under the Baker Act and they say you're not mentally ill if you get Baker Acted you lose your gun rights under Federal law.

 

When I was a on a local PD in NJ in the 70s there were times when we would encounter people that were really looney tunes. They would be taken to the ER and the ER doctor would make an evaluation and if the doctor thought the person needed it they'd be taken to one of the state mental hospitals. This all stopped when states (not only NJ) found it cheaper to prescribe drugs than spend money on state mental hospitals.

 

Now there are many people out there that just about anyone can evaluate and and determine that person is nuts. While I understand there are valid reasons for emergency commitments I don't think short term ones should disqualify you from gun ownership. I can see a doctor or mental health professional ordering one. A judge should be able to based on evidence from professionals and that should come from both sides. A LEO in FL can have you short termed committed based solely on their evaluation.

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Everyone talks about how gun friendly FL is. It is to most extents. FL has the Baker Act which allows involuntary commitment under emergency circumstances by doctors, mental health professionals, judges, and law enforcement officers. Even if you get committed under the Baker Act and they say you're not mentally ill if you get Baker Acted you lose your gun rights under Federal law.

 

When I was a on a local PD in NJ in the 70s there were times when we would encounter people that were really looney tunes. They would be taken to the ER and the ER doctor would make an evaluation and if the doctor thought the person needed it they'd be taken to one of the state mental hospitals. This all stopped when states (not only NJ) found it cheaper to prescribe drugs than spend money on state mental hospitals.

 

Now there are many people out there that just about anyone can evaluate and and determine that person is nuts. While I understand there are valid reasons for emergency commitments I don't think short term ones should disqualify you from gun ownership. I can see a doctor or mental health professional ordering one. A judge should be able to based on evidence from professionals and that should come from both sides. A LEO in FL can have you short termed committed based solely on their evaluation.

 

 

Can you point me towards the Florida Statute (or regulation)  that covers this?  I want to review it.  And, by this, I mean the specific language that says "A LEO in FL can have you short termed committed, etc..."  I'm reviewing FS 394.xxx now, but I want to see if there are any due process rights of the "committed" person before the firearms are seized. 

 

Thanks!

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LEO can initiate the examination. Thats a short term commitment.

 

OK, but can they (LEO) also start seizing/confiscating weapons, and placing the name on FBI NICS at that point without court due process?

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OK, but can they (LEO) also start seizing/confiscating weapons, and placing the name on FBI NICS at that point without court due process?

In PA they can. A doctor or a cop says you are done, you are done for good. No due process, no court, no possibility for redress. Ever.

 

Coming to a state near you. "Mental Health" is the long-time understood mechanism of Communists and Totalitarians throughout recent history to imprison and "reeducate" people that are doing things you don't approve of.

 

And yet whenever there is some sort of mass murder gun owners call to give government more power over mental health.

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