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Samdjr74

44 Mag Desert Eagle problems

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Hello All,

 

So some of you may have seen my other thread regarding what ammo I should try in my newly acquired Desert Eagle in 44 mag. I bought the gun used so it has some miles on it but it's in good condition from what I can tell. I gave it a good cleaning and took it to the range on Monday with 4 different types of ammo. Some of the ammo didn't work well with the gun at all, other worked ok but nothing worked great. I had a lot of stove piping, slide not staying open on empty, slide not closing fully after chambering a new round, etc.Than the gun had failure to eject one after another. I noticed that the extractor was flopping around in the breeze. So I put it back in the range bag took it home and noticed that the extractor spring was melted (polymer spring in the DE). I ordered a new spring kt, got it in yesterday and tried the gun again today with new ammo, PPU SJFP 300 grain (on Monday I was shooting American Eagle JHP 240 grain with ok results) . I didn't have any failures to eject but I had a few stove piping rounds, slide not locking open when empty and the slide not going fully into battery. Even though I replaced the spring in the magazine, I'm thinking that buying a new factory mag might help. Anyone else have a similar experience with a DE and f so what helped?

 

Thank you,

Sam

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It's likely not the gun, it's you. 

 

First, cleaning the things are a PITA. I contributed to a guide that is still useful. You can find it here: http://zvis.com/dep/depcln.shtml

 

Second, you need to shoot  it a specific way.  It's in the manual. In case you do not have that, it is here: http://zvis.com/dep/depmantmpl.shtml?/images/guns/depman/depman16.jpg

 

The key points: DO NOT roll of the recoil, you have to stiff arm it or you can get short stroking, which can cause stove piping, failure to lock back, and failure to return to battery.  DO NOT tea cup the mag, because of the design, it will jam. 

 

Also, if it is not locking back on empty, you should check the slide catch spring. PArt 37 in this exploded view. http://zvis.com/dep/depmantmpl.shtml?/images/guns/depman/depman15.jpg

 

It can become unseated, and IIRC can't go missing without disassembly, but can cause problems when it isn't properly where it should be. That site also has an FAQ for lots of things. 

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Great info, thanks. I was tea cupping it and thought that might be an issue as you can feel the mag move. I'll start reading up on your links before I hit the range again.

 

It's likely not the gun, it's you. 

 

First, cleaning the things are a PITA. I contributed to a guide that is still useful. You can find it here: http://zvis.com/dep/depcln.shtml

 

Second, you need to shoot  it a specific way.  It's in the manual. In case you do not have that, it is here: http://zvis.com/dep/depmantmpl.shtml?/images/guns/depman/depman16.jpg

 

The key points: DO NOT roll of the recoil, you have to stiff arm it or you can get short stroking, which can cause stove piping, failure to lock back, and failure to return to battery.  DO NOT tea cup the mag, because of the design, it will jam. 

 

Also, if it is not locking back on empty, you should check the slide catch spring. PArt 37 in this exploded view. http://zvis.com/dep/depmantmpl.shtml?/images/guns/depman/depman15.jpg

 

It can become unseated, and IIRC can't go missing without disassembly, but can cause problems when it isn't properly where it should be. That site also has an FAQ for lots of things.

 

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Hello All,

 

So some of you may have seen my other thread regarding what ammo I should try in my newly acquired Desert Eagle in 44 mag. I bought the gun used so it has some miles on it but it's in good condition from what I can tell. I gave it a good cleaning and took it to the range on Monday with 4 different types of ammo. Some of the ammo didn't work well with the gun at all, other worked ok but nothing worked great. I had a lot of stove piping, slide not staying open on empty, slide not closing fully after chambering a new round, etc.Than the gun had failure to eject one after another. I noticed that the extractor was flopping around in the breeze. So I put it back in the range bag took it home and noticed that the extractor spring was melted (polymer spring in the DE). I ordered a new spring kt, got it in yesterday and tried the gun again today with new ammo, PPU SJFP 300 grain (on Monday I was shooting American Eagle JHP 240 grain with ok results) . I didn't have any failures to eject but I had a few stove piping rounds, slide not locking open when empty and the slide not going fully into battery. Even though I replaced the spring in the magazine, I'm thinking that buying a new factory mag might help. Anyone else have a similar experience with a DE and f so what helped?

 

Thank you,

Sam

 

 

Replace the bolt stabilizer spring and it will cure the failure to go into battery. Probably a good idea to get a complete spring kit and replace everything in the slide. Also look for wear on the bolt stabilizer. If it's worn where it engages the bolt head; replace it. Get a new gas piston as well as they tend to wear. If the slide fails to lock open look for wear on the slide or slide catch. Replace the slide catch spring while you're at it. Check for wear on the recoil spring end plate as well. If it's worn, replace it with a new recoil spring assembly. 

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Replace the bolt stabilizer spring and it will cure the failure to go into battery. Probably a good idea to get a complete spring kit and replace everything in the slide. Also look for wear on the bolt stabilizer. If it's worn where it engages the bolt head; replace it. Get a new gas piston as well as they tend to wear. If the slide fails to lock open look for wear on the slide or slide catch. Replace the slide catch spring while you're at it. Check for wear on the recoil spring end plate as well. If it's worn, replace it with a new recoil spring assembly.

 

Thanks, I just replaced all the springs before this last shooting so they are working correctly from what I can tell . I think the majority of the issue was the way I was holding it . I'm a revolver guy and was holding it like I would my other guns which was not correct for the DE. Besides that , it was filthy. I thought I did a good job cleaning it but after reading raz-0's links i missed a lot of areas. I spent about two hours cleaning it yesterday and now I can say it's ready to hit the range again . I'm hoping I get some free time next weekend

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When mine stove pipes and the slide does not hold open the ammo does not have enough balls.  make sure the gas port is clean and dont shoot lead ammo out of it it will clog the gas port. gas port is not easy to clean.

 

i reload all my ammo for it i run Hornady XTP'S both 240 and 300 gr loaded with AA#9 or H110

 

mine is 1st gen,  one other thing you can try is having the gun cleaned in an ultrasonic cleaner to clean the gas port.

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Thanks, I'll try and watch this when I get home. I cleaned the gun as per raz-0's instructions and adjusted my grip and stance, however the problem is still there. What I noticed is the slide does not want to go all the way into battery after every shot. Sometimes it does, sometimes it doesn't and it's difficult to get it into battery. I'm also shaving off brass from the casing at the rim which is leaving brass splinters, not fun getting one of those in your hand!

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the brass splinters concern me, post pic of brass and where it is being shaved off. the issue you have sounds like poor ammo but the brass being shaved could also be your problem.

 

if you know someone with a chronograph run it through and log each one and weather the gun cycled fully. or purchase one for yourself would be good investment there not that expensive compared to what your playing with.

 

do that from a rest and make sure chronograph is not too close LOl..

 

Another option is to ship it back to DE for repair they are very good.

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the brass splinters concern me, post pic of brass and where it is being shaved off. the issue you have sounds like poor ammo but the brass being shaved could also be your problem.

 

if you know someone with a chronograph run it through and log each one and weather the gun cycled fully. or purchase one for yourself would be good investment there not that expensive compared to what your playing with.

 

do that from a rest and make sure chronograph is not too close LOl..

 

Another option is to ship it back to DE for repair they are very good.

 

I bought it used so shipping back to DE isn't an option (it is but it's probably going to cost a small fortune)

 

Unfortunately I didn't take any pictures the last time I was at the range but I'll try and do that the next time I head over to RTSP. I can say this, the bolt head and chamber is coated in brass dust after shooting. Yesterday, I took it apart again and cleaned it. This time I did my best to get behind the locking lug surfaces as the not going into battery is a concern. I also did a check of the gas port, just sending air from the piston area to the chamber area and that's clear. One thing I noticed yesterday, it's really difficult to keep the slide open with no magazine inserted. In fact I couldn't get it to stay open at all until I put in an empty mag. Once the empty mag was in, it stayed closed. Also when I insert a full mag, the slide automatically closes, is this normal for a DE?

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Here are a few pictures of the rounds that I ran through the gun but didn't get fired (all the rounds are good) They didn't fire because they were the last round in the magazine and stove bolted once the 7th round was fired and ejected. They show the damage to the casing and even to the projectile. All these are DE recommended rounds.

 

post-8049-0-93942200-1493218192_thumb.jpgpost-8049-0-34437600-1493218193_thumb.jpgpost-8049-0-75541500-1493218193_thumb.jpgpost-8049-0-19734800-1493218194_thumb.jpgpost-8049-0-62606600-1493218194_thumb.jpgpost-8049-0-04971600-1493218195_thumb.jpgpost-8049-0-46930000-1493218195_thumb.jpgpost-8049-0-88692300-1493218195_thumb.jpg

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Try some FMJ ammo and get away from the soft points.  Try two boxes of hornady XTP.  240 grain.

 

Clean and oil the gun again before hitting the range. 

 

I've been looking for Hornady XTP locally but no luck so far. I just took it all apart again, cleaned it, scrubbed it, etc. This time I got behind the lugs and removed any junk that might have been building up there.

 

As far as the FMJ, I need to make sure the base is enclosed, what are my choices? I was also looking for a TMJ/CMJ as well.

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Based on the posted pics it looks magazine related. How many do you have? Does the problems occur with all the magazines?  The pics show similar markings in most of them. That looks like a feed problem. When you have feed problems in SA guns, the first rule is to change the magazine.  Are the magazine(s) factory?  Most magazine problems are due to worn maligned feed lips.  I seen the post when you replaced the spring. Improper insertion of spring can cause all sorts of problems.

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Based on the posted pics it looks magazine related. How many do you have? Does the problems occur with all the magazines?  The pics show similar markings in most of them. That looks like a feed problem. When you have feed problems in SA guns, the first rule is to change the magazine.  Are the magazine(s) factory?  Most magazine problems are due to worn maligned feed lips.  I seen the post when you replaced the spring. Improper insertion of spring can cause all sorts of problems.

 

Right now I only have the original magazine. I bought a pro-mag but that's garbage, it barely fits. I'm planning on buying a new factory mag just to rule that out.

 

As far as installing the mag spring incorrectly, I guess it's possible but as far as I can tell, the spring would go in upside down at the most. Also this problem was happening before the spring was replaced. Now the new spring has much more tension and longer than the one that was in the mag when I got it, so there's a difference right there. 

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240 gr hornady in stock. they have 50AE in stock if you want to upgrade :triniti:

 

http://www.basspro.com/Hornady-Custom-Pistol-Ammo/product/101706/

sgammo had a couple boxes so I bought one along and I grabbed a box of cmj Fiocchi to give a try as well. Lastly I ordered a new MRI factory magazine. Hopefully they will all be in by next week .

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Ok good deal,  my gun will not run softpoints, if you have an issue with the hornady's i would have to say the gun is having an issue. i also run a pro mag with no issues. ill take some pics of my pistol so you can match them up to yours, mag in gun free floating to check alighnment with barrel throat and the bolt so you can look for damaged lugs.

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Awesome Tony, thanks. I'll match them up tomorrow to my gun. Why type of lube are you using ?

I  use Amsoil 20-50  racing oil and OMC starter and bendix lube which is on it now and some residual 2400 powder.

 

dont forget mine is 1st gen purchased in 1985  the lugs could have changed but general shape and contouring should be similar.

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I  use Amsoil 20-50  racing oil and OMC starter and bendix lube which is on it now and some residual 2400 powder.

 

dont forget mine is 1st gen purchased in 1985  the lugs could have changed but general shape and contouring should be similar.

 

First gen of Desert Eagle was in 1985? Wow... time flies. lol... I was 3 years old.  For some reason I keep thinking of the DE as a modern gun, ie late 90's on.

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So an update to the DE saga. I was able to run 2 magazines worth of Hornady with almost no issues. The first round fired each time wouldn't put the gun back into battery, but I think it was on me. Other than that, no issues. I also used a new factory original magazine. I switched to Fiocchi and had a bunch of issues with cycling and going back into battery. Also as the gun got hot the slide would not stay open. So yesterday I dropped it off at a reputable gunsmith who saw that where the slide lock interfaces with the slide is rounded over and worn. He said it's an easy fix and he's also going to give it a detailed check to make sure everything is working correctly .

It seems this gun really likes expensive ammo and does work very well when running it. I don't think I have all the bugs worked out yet but I'm getting close.

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