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Replacement handgun sent from manufacturer, different address

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I sent a handgun back to the manufacturer because it was out of spec. For the return address, I provided that of my current apartment, which is different than the address listed on my DL and permits. I do not want to go through the process of changing everything over to the new address only to change it back when I move again.

 

Manufacturer was unable to correct the handgun and wants to send me a new one. Will I have trouble picking up the new Handgun at the dealer if he sees the paperwork from the manufacturer shows a different address for me than that on my DL and PPP?

 

Sent from my Moto G (4) using Tapatalk

 

 

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6 hours ago, Buns of Guns said:

 

I sent a handgun back to the manufacturer because it was out of spec. For the return address, I provided that of my current apartment, which is different than the address listed on my DL and permits. I do not want to go through the process of changing everything over to the new address only to change it back when I move again.

 

If you don't tell the FFL about your new address and your driver's license and FID card have matching addresses then you won't have an issue, BUT.... technically your FID is null and void and you need to apply for a new one at your new address.  What you decide to do is up to you. ;)

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8 minutes ago, Krdshrk said:

Has it been more than 30 days since you moved?  Can you still consider the old address as a previous residence (Parents' house)?  

I'm hesitant to answer question #1 because I'm not too sure of the implications. 

Yes on question #2 and I still go "home" on the weekends. I'm hoping to move back in if I can find job in the Philly area that pays as well as my current job.

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1 hour ago, Buns of Guns said:

I'm hesitant to answer question #1 because I'm not too sure of the implications. 

Yes on question #2 and I still go "home" on the weekends. I'm hoping to move back in if I can find job in the Philly area that pays as well as my current job.

Where do you get your mail?

im sure it's at your primary residence that matches your dl and fpid.... You could have your mail temporarily forwarded if you have work or other that would require you to reside other than your primary residence. Rob is the best one to ask bout dual resident.

 

new numbers mean new gun. P2p in this state

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2 hours ago, Zeke said:

Where do you get your mail?

im sure it's at your primary residence that matches your dl and fpid.... You could have your mail temporarily forwarded if you have work or other that would require you to reside other than your primary residence. Rob is the best one to ask bout dual resident.

 

new numbers mean new gun. P2p in this state

Bills go to my permanent address. All other stuff to my current address, including guns that get work done on them. 

 

This is the first time a manufacturer has issued a replacement, thus necessitating an FFL transfer. All other times I've just had a housemate sign for my gun deliveries (one of the reasons why I opt to use my current address for return shipping is that there is always someone home to sign).

 

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The address on your FPID is irrelevant for a pistol transfer. You don't even need to have ever been issued one. All you need is a valid PtPP and a form of ID. If you use your DL I'm not sure if the address has to match if you can prove the address on the PtPP is yours some other way, maybe a utility bill?

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk

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13 hours ago, howard said:

If you don't tell the FFL about your new address and your driver's license and FID card have matching addresses then you won't have an issue, BUT.... technically your FID is null and void and you need to apply for a new one at your new address.  What you decide to do is up to you. ;)

Not completely True...

 

Seems over the last 8 months or so nics has been checking the Address in the DMV database and comparing the FID address listed.

 

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1 hour ago, remixer said:

Not completely True...

 

Seems over the last 8 months or so nics has been checking the Address in the DMV database and comparing the FID address listed.

 

That is what I said - If he has not changed the FID nor the Driver's License they will both match even though they may both be in violation of state law depending how long ago the move was.  When they are run they will match and not throw up a flag, even though they should have been renewed/replaced.

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Hello EVERYONE!  I'm the Vice President of NJ's busiest Second Amendment Organization, the Coalition of NJ Firearm Owners.  As such I'm one of the current Experts on this forum in the correct English interpretation of written laws as they apply to guns in NJ.  I stay up at night thinking about what's ACTUALLY WRITTEN and endeavor to use common sense from 1975 HS classes :) .

Most of you already figured-out the "go-around" to solve the OP's question, so here's some additional "food for thought"...

Nowhere in the NJ gun law does it say a gun owner can't have multiple residences.  If you had (5) and used them at different times of the year, they'd all still be one of your residences!   If you have some of YER STUFF at a former primary residence, and you still have a key to the door to get in, then this primary residence has become a secondary or tertiary residence.

Ownership of the dwelling you "flop" at is NOT required for it to be a "residence".  Merely your DNA has to be there from sleeping there, toilet, shower, etc.  So a bedroom at Mommy and Daddy's house (or for that matter a friend's house or apartment that you have access to) that still has all or some of your SH!T in it classifies as a residence if you "flop" there every once and a while (as is the case with college kids).  And further, your 18 yr old kid can leave his EVIL BLACK AR-15 rifle in his closet, LOADED, at this residence.  No need for a safe, trigger lock or any other infringement since there's NO RULES other than securing firearms from minors and KNOWN adjudicated "Prohibited Persons".  So Mom and Dad can throw a surprise POT Party and you're not gonna get yer a$$ locked-up for an "illegal transfer", lol!

Nowhere in the gun law does it say you need to put a permanent, full-time, secondary or even temporary, or otherwise "timed-stay" residence on a firearms application.  It just says "residence" w/o regard to number of weeks, days or hours per year you live at that residence!  There are lots of Krieghoff-owning multi-millionaire sportsmen that own multiple residences and store their collections (long guns AND hand guns) spread-out among these multiple residences.  So a house in the mountains can have a hand gun and the house "Down-the-Shore" can have a hand gun too, and guess what, NEITHER OF THEM HAVE TO BE REGISTERED!  How is THAT you ask?  Because if you're in your fifties as I am and already buried both parents and grew-up with firearms you have hand guns WILLED TO YOU w/o ANY paperwork :) . 

Best advice I can give is to STOP OVERTHINKING when it comes to NJ gun law.  Read the EXEMPTIONS AND EXCEPTIONS (the "carve-outs" if you will), and don't ADD anything to the written word.  E.G.:  "Other land or property owned or possessed by him" means empty land parcels, property you have for sale, property you have a contract in-place to sell (that you still own before the closing), property that was deeded to you w/o a sale, property that was inherited, property that an estate owns and you're the Executor/Executrix of the estate prior to carving-up of the estate as per the will of the deceased (needn't even be a blood relative)!  And guess what, not only can you own, store and transport firearms (hand guns included!) at OR to these land parcels, technically you can also patrol them with the possession of a loaded firearm (no carve-out for just long guns, so guess what, HAND GUNS ARE ALLOWED TOO)!  Dating back to the 1600-1700's under the influence of English Law, NJ was a place where LAND OWNERS HAVE RIGHTS.  Guess what, WE STILL DO!  How else would it be legal for me to patrol a land parcel I own while ARMED if I can't legally transport said firearm to that parcel?  (And there we go with that "FIREARM" word again, NOT a rifle or shotgun)!

The application of common sense, together with understanding and APPLYING the correct application of punctuation will yield enlightenment.  Read S - L -O - W - L -Y, "securely tied package, OR locked in the trunk of an automobile"...  So I can wrap a hand gun with brown craft paper and bakery string and leave it on my front seat to take it somewhere to go sell it, get it fixed or get it appraised so long as its' an EXEMPT location:  FFL, Gunsmith, Appraiser (for that estate sale), or a complete stranger meets me at my local clubs' indoor range at 3 AM.........

 

 

 

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Thanks for clearing that up, Smokin’. Some people were suggesting that I was breaking the law by not changing my DL and FID over to my apartment address, so I became a bit concerned.

My takeaway from this discussion is that the dealer will most likely NOT give me a hard time for my DL and PPP showing a different address than what’s that on the manufacturer summary sheet (last time I had a gun shipped back to me, the service department included a summary with my name and address listed on it).

Furthermore, I am legally allowed to have/transport handguns to/at my apartment in the same manner as with my permanent residence. There is no requirement for me to change the address shown on my DL and FID from my permanent residence to my apartment.

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While Dave is correct on the gun laws, I am not so sure what you are stating is true with regard to your driver's license.  You need to verify this, but I believe you are required to have your PRIMARY address on a driver's license.  That means the one where you spend over 183 days per year, or the majority of your time in the even of more than two residences.  This could cause you a problem at dealers that "require" a driver's license with an address that matches your FID.  Could you get away with not changing your driver's license, probably.  However it could become an issue if god forbid you got in an accident and someone sued you and their lawyer started doing research and somehow managed to get your driver's license invalidated on this technicality which could lead to your insurance being ruled null and void.

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Technically a Drivers' license isn't needed for a transfer.  Any government-issued photo ID will do so long as the address on both the P2P and the ID are the same  So a blind man riding in a cab (or a Limo for that matter) could go to a FFL for a legal transfer.  Owning things that go BANG doesn't REQUIRE SIGHT or  a DL.....  A blind man (or woman) can own a vehicle, they just can't get a license to DRIVE it.  Some folks give up renewing their drivers' license once they hit 85 or 90 years of age.  But the Po-Po don't come a-knockin' for their loved ones' GI issue .45 automatic or captured Luger with all of the Nazi emblems embellished upon it :) .  Getting old isn't YET an automatic felony in the PRNJ, but there is such a thing as age discrimination.  Even the old and infirm can own things that go BANG, and that also means they need/require/deserve/enjoy a legal means of buying/selling/collecting said items until they're no longer able to pick-up the pen....

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Again Dave is 100% correct by the letter of the law.  Problem is many FFLs don't follow the letter of the law and they DEMAND a driver's licence with an address that matches your FID card and will not sell to you without it.  I once tried to use my US Passport Card which has my photo and I was refused and they demanded a driver's licence.  Heck we all know there are many FFLs that will demand your FID just to take a gun out of the display case (not required) and others that even demand to see a P2P before taking a gun out.

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8 minutes ago, Howard said:

Again Dave is 100% correct by the letter of the law.  Problem is many FFLs don't follow the letter of the law and they DEMAND a driver's licence with an address that matches your FID card and will not sell to you without it.  I once tried to use my US Passport Card which has my photo and I was refused and they demanded a driver's licence.  Heck we all know there are many FFLs that will demand your FID just to take a gun out of the display case (not required) and others that even demand to see a P2P before taking a gun out.

Finding a FFL who fully understands the law and is willing to comply with it isn't hard.  All you have to do is ASK before you stupidly just ASSUME that every FFL actually KNOWS the law.  Then you can tell Bud's Gun Shop or Joe Blow where to ship the hand gun to :) .  Let's face it, by the time you need a cab to get around due to age, you've most likely already been dealin' with a Mom and Pop Gun Shop for a few decades, so THEY KNOW WHO YOU ARE, lol!

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5 hours ago, Howard said:

While Dave is correct on the gun laws, I am not so sure what you are stating is true with regard to your driver's license.  You need to verify this, but I believe you are required to have your PRIMARY address on a driver's license.  That means the one where you spend over 183 days per year, or the majority of your time in the even of more than two residences.  

So far the only things I can find on this apply to out-of-state versus in-state.

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On 5/4/2017 at 9:38 AM, tomk62 said:

I think technically, if he still has full access/housing rights to the address on his DL, FID, and P2P (his parent's house) , he didn't really "move".

^^^THIS!  My Eagle Scout graduated college in May of 2011, at age 20, then turned 21 later in August.  He went to Rowan in Glassboro and LIVED there after establishing a "second residence".   He did this for FOUR YEARS!  When he turned 18, we went to the Po-Po and got him his "Yellow Card" (NJFPID Card for those born this century) so he could shoot long guns on his own.  Even though he spent more than 6 months each year at college, we never bothered to change his DL OR Yellow Card.  His "Sample Ballot" was mailed to his "permanent address" (MINE).  His DL had MY address on it and so did his Yellow Card.

Now let's put our thinking caps on and ask ourselves a question or three:

If college kids that are 18 years old and own their own long guns are required to store them at a residence, and they can't do so in a college dorm, where do you suppose these long guns ARE?  What about the ammo Buckwheat?

Does anybody know a college kid that changed their DL just because they went to a different town or state to go to school?  If a college kid can do it for 4-7 YEARS (hey, not everyone is as schmarrrt as you and I) do we all of a sudden lose our rights to travel freely in this country w/o the Po-Po checking our "papers" like Commies at Checkpoint Charlie?  Am I a felon if I stay away from "home plate" for a day more than 1/2 of 365?  A week?  10 weeks?  Do the Insurance Companies have their own Gestapo?  Are the days consecutive or do I have to use fingers and toes for a cumulative "score"?

If the rules at the college dorm (that they LIVE at) infringes upon their Second Amendment rights as US citizens that vote at 18, where does a 18-19-20 year old US citizen living in NJ store their hollow point ammo for their AK, AR, pistol caliber carbine, .22 pea shooter, et-al?  Remember that HP's are treated like hand guns in NJ, with the same exceptions and exemptions (but don't MOVE with them as Aitken found out)!

If it's considered "legal and customary" for a 18-19-20 year old adult to leave guns and EVIL hollow point ammunition at a place he/she doesn't LIVE at a majority of the time (but his/her access is still valid and his/her DNA is in the drain), what then all of a sudden makes it so illegal for his/her 80 year old grandfather (who spends more time on vacations to Florida and Europe, often for months at a time) to have his 200 hand gun collection under his bed at his son's house where he officially "moved" to instead of going into a senior living complex?  Or for that matter ANY adult at ANY age?  Because the law has to apply to everyone equally, RIGHT?

If a college kid going to school can switch majors or stay in school to earn a Masters away from home, at what point does the Po-Po come to seize his/her firearms at his secondary (living) residence that he/she still votes at via proxy ballot even though they haven't lived there for most of a decade?

What is a RESIDENCE?  How many am I allowed to have?  How fast do I need to change my DL again?  Suddenly, when you apply the law EQUALLY, things get as CLEAR AS MUD.  Maybe that's why no one is gettin' "Jacked-Up" for having a gun collection at a residence they only spend a few days a year at.  Hell, in the next century we'll all just be micro-chipped like AKC registered pups when we are birthed out of our mother's womb.........."No Papers" then, lol!

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Dave you are confusing practical reality with legal facts.  If the law says you must notify DMV (or whatever they call themselves these days) within 7 days or 60 days and you do not do so then you are in technical violation of the law.  Will you be caught or fined, probably not - but that does not make it legal.  Further if the law requires you to store your guns at your "residence" and the college does not allow that the powers that be could really care less - go sue the college, but if that is your residence then you have a problem.  I don't think the powers that be would accept me storing some of my guns at my parent's house even though I have a bedroom there from 35 plus years ago.  It is not my residence.  This is especially the case if you have changed your drivers licence, voter registration, and place you pay taxes.  Again will you ever get caught, well probably not unless something bad happens and things are investigated.  The bigger issue with not changing a drivers licence has to do with no informing your insurance company as if the rating would be higher at the new address in the event of an accident they might charge you with insurance fraud and nullify your policy for fraud.

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23 minutes ago, Howard said:

I don't think the powers that be would accept me storing some of my guns at my parent's house even though I have a bedroom there from 35 plus years ago.  It is not my residence.  This is especially the case if you have changed your drivers licence, voter registration, and place you pay taxes.  

I don't believe any of that applies to the OP.

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7 hours ago, Howard said:

Dave you are confusing practical reality with legal facts.  If the law says you must notify DMV (or whatever they call themselves these days) within 7 days or 60 days and you do not do so then you are in technical violation of the law.  Will you be caught or fined, probably not - but that does not make it legal.  Further if the law requires you to store your guns at your "residence" and the college does not allow that the powers that be could really care less - go sue the college, but if that is your residence then you have a problem.  I don't think the powers that be would accept me storing some of my guns at my parent's house even though I have a bedroom there from 35 plus years ago.  It is not my residence.  This is especially the case if you have changed your drivers licence, voter registration, and place you pay taxes.  Again will you ever get caught, well probably not unless something bad happens and things are investigated.  The bigger issue with not changing a drivers licence has to do with no informing your insurance company as if the rating would be higher at the new address in the event of an accident they might charge you with insurance fraud and nullify your policy for fraud.

Howard you're all in a tizzy, lol!  And your flying off the handle on a ridiculous tangent (car insurance).  FWIW when my kid went away to school I notified the vehicle insurance co.  That's all I had to do.  The Insurance Co. told me MY address was my kid's address even though he was a full-time student LIVING in a dorm.  NJDMV treats it the same way.  Mine wasn't the first NJ earthling in the 21st century to go away to college and drive their car to get there :) .

I use "practical reality" to expose current conflicting law and/or "rules".  If the DMV says my kid's residence is MY house even though he's only there a few weeks a year while in college, who am i to argue?  

You CAN store guns at your parent's house.  It's one of your residences.  You're allowed more than ONE Howard.  Nobody is going-around lockin'-up millionaires when they buy hand gun ammo and transport it to their million+ dollar shore homes, lol!  I digress, so...But since Mom and Dad are getting up there, best be safe and store them in a $100 cheapie locked cabinet so Dad doesn't grab that CZ-75B and knock-over the Last National Bank, lol!  OPEN your mind Howard.  It's not your permanent address.  It's not your voting address.  It was your mailing address long ago.  And if you don't want the nursing home to get it all, you've already been transferring some of the value of the house and estate to YOUR accounts, so you might even own a piece of the action.  Did you know if you OWN a piece of real estate that it's YOURS?  That means it's a second house.  Or a third or forth if Susie has living parents that aren't in a home yet.  Go deposit some fresh DNA there and give Mom and Dad a big hug from me :) 

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10 hours ago, Smokin .50 said:

Howard you're all in a tizzy, lol!  And your flying off the handle on a ridiculous tangent (car insurance).  FWIW when my kid went away to school I notified the vehicle insurance co.  That's all I had to do.  The Insurance Co. told me MY address was my kid's address even though he was a full-time student LIVING in a dorm.  NJDMV treats it the same way.  Mine wasn't the first NJ earthling in the 21st century to go away to college and drive their car to get there :) .

I use "practical reality" to expose current conflicting law and/or "rules".  If the DMV says my kid's residence is MY house even though he's only there a few weeks a year while in college, who am i to argue?  

You CAN store guns at your parent's house.  It's one of your residences.  You're allowed more than ONE Howard.  Nobody is going-around lockin'-up millionaires when they buy hand gun ammo and transport it to their million+ dollar shore homes, lol!  I digress, so...But since Mom and Dad are getting up there, best be safe and store them in a $100 cheapie locked cabinet so Dad doesn't grab that CZ-75B and knock-over the Last National Bank, lol!  OPEN your mind Howard.  It's not your permanent address.  It's not your voting address.  It was your mailing address long ago.  And if you don't want the nursing home to get it all, you've already been transferring some of the value of the house and estate to YOUR accounts, so you might even own a piece of the action.  Did you know if you OWN a piece of real estate that it's YOURS?  That means it's a second house.  Or a third or forth if Susie has living parents that aren't in a home yet.  Go deposit some fresh DNA there and give Mom and Dad a big hug from me :) 

I assure you Dave, no tizzy.  I really could care less if someone is breaking the law as long as it does not impact me.  Check the DMV regs, when you change your address you change it on your license - it is really that simple.  Has a kid at school changed their address, well I guess that all depends.  If they are in a state different than where they lived before school and are claiming in-state tuition for that out of state school I would say they have changed their address.  If they register to vote at the location of the school then they have changed their address.  If they are paying taxes at that new location then they have changed their address.  I grew up in NY but changed my address to PA when I went to school there and got a PA license and PA plates on my car so that I could pay PA insurance rates.

I understand you can have multiple residences.  But your mom and dad thing does not fly except for NJ stupid (you know they are stupid) gun laws.  They have a different definition that includes land owned and other words that have nothing to do with residences - but drivers licenses don't include those words.  But governments have rules as to what your primary residence is and even what you can call a residence based on how long you live there.  My wife recently was a candidate for a senior level job with the state of NY and one of the requirements was living in NYC.  We reside legally in New Jermany and it was determined that she does not legally reside in NYC even though we have an apartment in our name and pay rent monthly on that apartment in NYC - they said too bad that is not your LEGAL residence and you don't qualify!

Again no one really cares and do as they like and it is never an issue until it becomes one.  Bottom line, when you go to the gun store as long as your FID address and the Address on your NJ license match you are golden even if you no longer actually live in the state.  Conversely no matter how many millions you have and how many mansions you own in NJ if your FID card lists one mansion and your licence lists a different mansion many FFLs will refuse to deal with you.  That is just the way it is.

 

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