S&W39

Another Democratic Governor

115 posts in this topic

6 hours ago, Mrs. Peel said:

I agree that "winning" on the 2A issue in NJ is likely a pipe dream... but I also question what favorable grounds (as you say) are actually left (and how long they will remain). Look at the profound political changes brought to Colorado based on an influx of Californians. And I agree with Hbec... on Florida... the ground is shifting there too. I look at the people that I personally know who have moved or are planning on moving there. One, a business colleague, is part of a gay couple from NYC that just moved. He is quick to point out that, "Florida is changing dramatically due to the influx of people like us. Eventually we'll outnumber the rednecks at the polls." (exact quote).  Let me tell you a little bit about his politics... virulently anti-gun... pro-transgender rights... atheist... denies that radical Islamism could even have been a contributing factor in the Pulse nightclub attack (it was 100% anti-gay hate crime according to him, he can't even acknowledge that the 2 might not be mutually exclusive). The point is... a NY Dem through and through... even when it's arguably to his own disadvantage. The others I know planning to move there also can't wait to "stamp out" any vestige of the Florida old guard. Anywhere where you have large numbers of transplants from NY and NJ, it's going to change the place. Eventually, when there's enough mass.

I think the problem is much bigger than can be answered by pro2A types continually scampering off to ever-shrinking areas that still promote the Bill of Rights. It needs to be addressed on a much more fundamental basis - in public school curriculums K-12. That's why I was impressed (and surprised) with the Dreyfuss website to move civics back into the curriculum. Currently, there exists an onslaught of criticism of all things American in our schools - with no acknowledgement of what makes it exceptional. With American kids gobbling that negativity up like cotton candy, at some point, there will be no places of refuge left. They have been taught a fundamental lack respect for the Bill of Rights. So, the 2A is on borrowed time... along with a  few other amendments. To combat that, there needs to be a fundamental "long game" played out in the educational arena. And, frankly, I don't know that enough of our current representatives have the brains - or the will - to pull that off.
 

I would council you to go back and look at a large group of and or the totality of my posts, that make comment to the very issues you are bringing up 

 

If your plan is for one year plant rice. If your plan is for ten years plant trees. If your plan is for one hundred years educate children.

Confucius

 

 

For me I choose to live somewhere whereby the vistages of freedom kinda still exist.

The battle can still be fought and still one, IF the will is there and the numbers.

 

But it has been reported that the supremes might hear Peruta.....  let's see.

 

NJ is still lost unless you subscribe to the above and as states the failures we have today are a result of poor planning and guidance from 20-40 years ago.

 

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...the SC......  a joke - but a pro 2a interpretation is better than nothing IF you get it....

 

Any precedent can be 'overruled and overturned' they are not the end all and be all.

 

What is needed is a true convention of the state's reaffirming the 2a and the right of the people to keep and bear arms.

 

However, believing in states rights as opposed to the strong and overbearing federal bureaucracy. ....  latitude can and should be given to a state to govern itself without undue pressure from another state.or states.....wasnt  a civil war fought over this?

 

Hence wanting to leave a state that i feel is not favorable for others that possibly are.

 

 

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19 minutes ago, Nickjc said:

.

What is needed is a true convention of the state's reaffirming the 2a and the right of the people to keep and bear arms.

 

Very risky these days to have a Constitutional Convention.  I wouldn't risk it unless, as they say in Poker,  "you know you have the nuts."  If we know there are enough states to ratify a more comprehensive 2A, then yes, go for it. But we must also ensure that 1A, 4A, 5A, 14A, etc. are protected as well. Lots of things can happen if you open that Pandora's Box. 

If the Dems and anti's start calling for a Constitutional Convention, be afraid... be very afraid.  

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you guys are so depressing. this is supposed to be a pro 2a forum dedicated to new jersey. yet most here say 2a is either dead or soon will be dead. so where does that leave this forum? i don't subscribe to the notion that all is lost. the defeatist attitude pisses me off so much. i don't subscribe to the notion that it's a foregone conclusion we elect a democrat. dem governors do exceptionally poorly in this state for some odd reason. and in the worst case doomsday scenario, nj simply cannot execute the laws they purport to pass. how's the universal background checks going in nevada? ammo checks in ca? firearm registration in ny? mag restrictions in colorado? ar ban in ma? hell, what about the no talking on a cellphone while driving law? just because they pass a law doesn't make it enforceable. there are 7 MILLION firearms in new jersey. with a few swipes of a pen many of them will be made illegal. do you really think the police are equipped for such confiscation? for mass incarceration for those who refuse? it's all fantasy. political theater. i see guys all the time at the range with 30 round mags,  adjustable stocks and unpinned muzzle brakes, and i know damn well many of them aren't police. there are laws against all of those, aren't there? 

look, i know you old timers love to preach doom and gloom so you can wax poetic about the olden days and pine for spending your twilight years in sunny florida. the reality, though, is that regardless of what absurd laws they pass, they still have to 1. weather the onslaught of legal challenges and stays, 2. actually enforce the laws and 3. be prepared to make an awful lot of the 9 million nj residents into felons. 9 million residents, 7 million firearms. i like our odds...

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11 hours ago, Indianajonze said:

you guys are so depressing. this is supposed to be a pro 2a forum dedicated to new jersey. yet most here say 2a is either dead or soon will be dead. so where does that leave this forum? i don't subscribe to the notion that all is lost. the defeatist attitude pisses me off so much. i don't subscribe to the notion that it's a foregone conclusion we elect a democrat. dem governors do exceptionally poorly in this state for some odd reason. and in the worst case doomsday scenario, nj simply cannot execute the laws they purport to pass. how's the universal background checks going in nevada? ammo checks in ca? firearm registration in ny? mag restrictions in colorado? ar ban in ma? hell, what about the no talking on a cellphone while driving law? just because they pass a law doesn't make it enforceable. there are 7 MILLION firearms in new jersey. with a few swipes of a pen many of them will be made illegal. do you really think the police are equipped for such confiscation? for mass incarceration for those who refuse? it's all fantasy. political theater. i see guys all the time at the range with 30 round mags,  adjustable stocks and unpinned muzzle brakes, and i know damn well many of them aren't police. there are laws against all of those, aren't there? 

look, i know you old timers love to preach doom and gloom so you can wax poetic about the olden days and pine for spending your twilight years in sunny florida. the reality, though, is that regardless of what absurd laws they pass, they still have to 1. weather the onslaught of legal challenges and stays, 2. actually enforce the laws and 3. be prepared to make an awful lot of the 9 million nj residents into felons. 9 million residents, 7 million firearms. i like our odds...

Sadly ur wrong....

 

See they will not go door to door.....

 

They will, if they want, nab you when YOU least expect it...while out to dinner with ur family etc....

The fantasy of going out in a blaze of glory on your doorstep is just that , fantasy.

 

The fantasy of others coming to supper you if you are holding up at home...waiting for fellow patriots....is again fantasy. ...they will brand you a terrorist or extremist..

All they need to do is start Making examples of some or many...and it will be a domino effect. 

 

Granted it is easy to hammer a few nails in but more difficult to do many....

 

But are you ready and prepared to 'roll the dice'?

 

How many stood in line in CT AND NY to register?   How many sold off their collections. ...more than many moved...many are non compliant. ...

 

We shall see what holds for NJ in less than a year

 

 

11 hours ago, HBecwithFn7 said:

Very risky these days to have a Constitutional Convention.  I wouldn't risk it unless, as they say in Poker,  "you know you have the nuts."  If we know there are enough states to ratify a more comprehensive 2A, then yes, go for it. But we must also ensure that 1A, 4A, 5A, 14A, etc. are protected as well. Lots of things can happen if you open that Pandora's Box. 

If the Dems and anti's start calling for a Constitutional Convention, be afraid... be very afraid.  

I like the odds when you look at how many state legislatures are right leaning these days....

 

There are many safeguards built into the article V convention......

 

Let's see what happens....

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23 minutes ago, Nickjc said:

Sadly ur wrong....

 

See they will not go door to door.....

 

They will, if they want, nab you when YOU least expect it...while out to dinner with ur family etc....

They might also actually come to your door in areas where they do have sufficient resources to do it and where there are more concentrations of law abiding gun owners per capita (i.e. the western counties - Sussex, Warren, Hunterdon, etc.).  I don't see them doing it door to door in major cities/urban areas like Newark, etc.  Too many households to check.

Quote

I like the odds when you look at how many state legislatures are right leaning these days....

We thought our legislature in FL was "right leaning..." when it came to 2A. Boy were we wrong! :dontknow:

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Well, one easy way to check would be what Bloomberg did in Pa.... just have enforcement vehicles ready to go next to gun stores/ranges.

I think the vast majority of gun owners would unknowingly become owners of illegal firearms... or it may be done in stages, ala NY/CA.... okay to hold but no longer buy, and then just no longer okay.

As far as fighting for the rights.... I would say more than 50% of gun owners in the state are not really "gun people," and would abide by any laws anyway.  40% would be the hunters/ revolver only folks to whom it would not apply, and the 10%, ie us... are almost powerless to put up any resistance without being made to look like extreme gun people. 

Beyond that, Is NJ heading in the right direction anyway?  horrible financial position that will soon be worse.  higher taxes inbound, etc.  You can only keep plugging the holes for so long.

Unfortunately the only way for conservatives to get back into the state.... would be to let democrats bankrupt the state and then start fresh. 

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On 5/9/2017 at 8:08 PM, revenger said:

Its possible to knock a candidate out in the primary but never in a general election in NJ.

 

Not if the vote is split between five others… 

If you have a chance to vote against Murphy in the upcoming primary, the question is who do you vote for? Because even if we manage to avoid Corzine 2.0, we still might end up with a Democrat for Governor

I'm not going to support Mark Zinna, who by the way is a gun owner:

Jim Johnson does not sound like a good choice from a 2A perspective:
http://www.nj.com/politics/index.ssf/2017/04/why_jim_johnson_is_running_for_nj_governor.html

#NeverWisniewski, because don't forget this jack@ss voted FOR the gas tax hike, FOR camera ticketing, and proposed the coffee-while-driving-ban. Did I mention his gun voting record? https://votesmart.org/candidate/8176/john-wisniewski?categoryId=37&type=V,S,R,E,F,P#.WRscBmjyuUk

Then we have career politician Ray Lesniak who has been warming a seat in the NJ Senate since 1983 (I seat I thought they'd have to pry from his cold, dead hands) AND wants to revive the AWB…http://www.ontheissues.org/Governor/Ray_Lesniak_Gun_Control.htm

Last but not least, there's Bill Brennan. There may be a glimmer of hope as Brennan "favors expanding access to gun permits for citizens who are being stalked or harassed" but then I look at where he's from and his love of litigation and I'm not too eager to lend support :http://www.nj.com/bergen/index.ssf/2016/12/5_things_to_know_about_anti-christie_bridgegate_crusader_bill_brennan.html  

Who is the lesser evil here?
 

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2 hours ago, Maksim said:

Well, one easy way to check would be what Bloomberg did in Pa.... just have enforcement vehicles ready to go next to gun stores/ranges.

I think the vast majority of gun owners would unknowingly become owners of illegal firearms... or it may be done in stages, ala NY/CA.... okay to hold but no longer buy, and then just no longer okay.

As far as fighting for the rights.... I would say more than 50% of gun owners in the state are not really "gun people," and would abide by any laws anyway.  40% would be the hunters/ revolver only folks to whom it would not apply, and the 10%, ie us... are almost powerless to put up any resistance without being made to look like extreme gun people. 

Beyond that, Is NJ heading in the right direction anyway?  horrible financial position that will soon be worse.  higher taxes inbound, etc.  You can only keep plugging the holes for so long.

Unfortunately the only way for conservatives to get back into the state.... would be to let democrats bankrupt the state and then start fresh. 

For me exiting NJ was way more than just a gun rights issue. My taxes are a joke for both income and property.  The next governor will hammer me to fund his follies and lastly, and study this, the school funding formula will bankrupt this state. Abbott vs burke is the biggest court sponsored tax payer ripoff in the history of the country.  

 

If you are unaware of NJ's ridiculous formula for school funding you should educate yourself. This issue alone may make you leave the state.   

 

NJ's horrid financial condition, the inability of the clowns running the state to solve it and the commedically obvious corruption are yet another problem.  The state is for sale in the next election.  Forget this 2a discussion--NJ doesn't  have enough of a gun culture as pointed out by Maks for that to be any part of an election platform.  Its not even a big deal for NJ Republicans.  Its about the financial future, the quality of life here and the sustainability of the ridiculous status quo. 

 

Lets all stop pretending that 2a matters for shit in this next election. If you do you're naive. Way bigger issues will decide this. 

 

Not a response to Maks but more adding to the thought. 

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5 hours ago, Parker said:

Murphy wants more gun laws for New Jersey, because he wants to stand up to Trump and the NRA, because we "need a better day.": 

 

I'm disgusted by this video.  Question 2 is the gun questions--quotes false statistic, strengthen NJ.  If you believe 70% of guns are committed with out a state guns why strengthen yours?  Terrorist watch list, slippery slope when it goes around 5th and 14th amendment.  Comparison to D/L.  Isn't driving a privilege?  Isn't the 2a an inalienable right?  Really how do these fuckin' sheep buy this?  I don't care if you don't like guns but comparing privileges and rights is a joke.  Secondly usurping constitutional protections of due process is what McCarthy did with his communist witch hunts.  Wow, this guy will win and this state is done if he does.  

 

I could only listen a bit further as this guy bamboozles the weak-minded with his Jedi mind tricks about public banks, etc.  What a snake oil salesman. 

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18 minutes ago, Rob0115 said:

I'm disgusted by this offer.  Question 2 is the gun questions--quotes false statistic, strengthen NJ.  If you believe 70% of guns are committed with out a state guns why strengthen yours?  Terrorist watch list, slippery slope when it goes around 5th and 14th amendment.  Comparison to D/L.  Isn't driving a privilege?  Isn't the 2a an inalienable right?  Really how do these fuckin' sheep buy this?  I don't care if you don't like guns but comparing privileges and rights is a joke.  Secondly usurping constitutional protections of due process is what McCarthy did with his communist whitch hunts.  Wow, this guy will win and this state is done if he does.  

 

I could only listen a bit further as this guy bamboozles the weak-minded with his Jedi mind tricks about public banks, etc.  What a snake oil salesman. 

I believe if you ask most young people today, they will tell you driving is a right and owning a gun is a privilege.

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15 minutes ago, Maksim said:

I believe if you ask most young people today, they will tell you driving is a right and owning a gun is a privilege.

That's why I joined the Richard Dreyfuss civics initiative.  We've really lost our way.  

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2 hours ago, Maksim said:

I believe if you ask most young people today, they will tell you driving is a right and owning a gun is a privilege.

And, to think, we have "common core" to thank for that..... :rolleyes:

 

 

 

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13 hours ago, Old Glock guy said:

OMG, we are so screwed when he wins!  He is determined to come up with "model gun legislation to lead the nation." Sounds like his goal is to dwarf the NY SAFE Act. 

I've been saying that for a year. 

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1 hour ago, Rob0115 said:

I've been saying that for a year. 

A bunch of us have.  And for those who may be new here, my favorite link showing the rough draft of the NJ SAFE Act- what the democrats have in mind. Its a few yrs old& lot to take in but gets their idea across. There is 70+, some duplications, maybe a few that make sense.  http://c.ymcdn.com/sites/www.anjrpc.org/resource/resmgr/ds-email/gun_control_list_03-22-13.pdf

they were tripping over themselves, couldnt make this stuff up fast enough.

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On 5/16/2017 at 10:39 AM, Nickjc said:

All they need to do is start Making examples of some or many...and it will be a domino effect. 

Granted it is easy to hammer a few nails in but more difficult to do many....

i find your arguments wildly illogical, but i swore off debating here a while back and so will concede the points. i do, however, want to hone in on this particular sentiment you mentioned above. i agree with it, but doesn't the opposite example also work? i know of half a dozen guys in my town alone that would not, under any circumstances, willingly give up their guns. i can absolutely guarantee they'd rather die fighting than have their lawfully acquired property confiscated. i'd argue that one single unfortunate incident would make national headlines. 5? 10? 20? you'd have utter chaos on an unprecedented scale. the state would cease and desist in a heartbeat, the feds would be all over them to do so and the fallout would be epic. putting the lives of neighbors and law enforcement at risk for this would not go over well. governor, attorney general, chiefs of police would have to resign en masse. 

i agree most people are sheep. some, however, are not. tensions are very high. confiscations and mass incarcerations might have worked 10 years ago, but in the current political and socio-economic climate we have today i'm quite certain you'd have a segment of the populace that won't go gently into that good night, and it would put a serious, serious crimp in the gun grabber plans. as you said, you only need some to resist and it would be a domino effect. you can only push people so much before they start pushing back. molon labe, don't tread on me and all that

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Right now i dont have time to read through the threads on this but.  As i wrote last year. Beware.  Murphy is out to f us.  Do all you can do to bury him.   This is a game changer.  You will.  Have 7 rd mags.   Rifle and pistol.   Do all you can do to stop him.  Do it now.  It will happen. If you dont step up.  This aint bs.  Its scary and it will happen.  

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trump lost new jersey by 400k votes. 100k voted for nonsense 3rd party. if he splits that then he lost the mighty blue state of nj by 350k votes. not a small amount, but not massive either. and this is trump, by all accounts a very polarizing figure. i refuse to believe this state is in the bag for someone like phil murphy. jon corzine was the most unpopular governor in my lifetime. this guy is the spitting image of him and has what i think are some wildly unpopular agenda items. i'm not sure 350k people are willing to buy into nj becoming the latest sanctuary state. remember, as much as we want, it's not all 2a all the time. these are YOUR tax dollars (which he'll raise) which will go to pay for this bullshit:

https://www.murphy4nj.com/2017/01/murphy-calls-for-state-office-to-assist-immigrants-caught-in-trumps-web/

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3 hours ago, Indianajonze said:

trump lost new jersey by 400k votes. 100k voted for nonsense 3rd party. if he splits that then he lost the mighty blue state of nj by 350k votes. not a small amount, but not massive either. and this is trump, by all accounts a very polarizing figure. i refuse to believe this state is in the bag for someone like phil murphy. jon corzine was the most unpopular governor in my lifetime. this guy is the spitting image of him and has what i think are some wildly unpopular agenda items. i'm not sure 350k people are willing to buy into nj becoming the latest sanctuary state. remember, as much as we want, it's not all 2a all the time. these are YOUR tax dollars (which he'll raise) which will go to pay for this bullshit:

https://www.murphy4nj.com/2017/01/murphy-calls-for-state-office-to-assist-immigrants-caught-in-trumps-web/

Worse than Jim Florio???  :D

I proudly recall a news cartoon showing Sadam Hussein in front of a mirror:

Quote

Mirror... Mirror on the wall.... Who's the most hated and feared leader of them all?

and in the next frame, he pi$$ed as Hell on the phone:

Quote

WHO THE HELL IS JIM FLORIO???

:D

 

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