Range trip after work

[Sevenshot 98]

Did a search on this and it seemed there was a lot of discussion but nothing concrete on this.

I'm trying to get to the range more often, but work schedule and travel make it difficult. I would love to shoot after work, but obviously no chance of leaving a firearm in the car while at work in this state.

I have family near where I work that have their NJ FPID. Is it NJ legal for me to drop a locked firearm (I would have only key) into their gun safe before work and pick it up after work? Works seems like a bit too large of a deviation to the range, but does the storage change anything? Is a family member even allowed to temporarily store firearms in this state? I read something along the lines of an 8/24 hr rule. 

 

[67gtonut 847]

Nope..... illegal transfer

[Sevenshot 98]

That's what I figured. So the only way to shoot after work is to drive home first then drive to the range?

[YankeeSC 1,204]

If you have a FID can't you leave an unloaded long gun in your car?

Does the range rent lockers?  TTC does.

[Sevenshot 98]

Gun for hire is 1 exit away from work. I'm sure they have lockers. I'll have to give them a call.

[Sota 1,191]

If you are a member of a club that files the proper charter and membership list annually with the state police, you can keep your unloaded and cased firearm in your vehicle, for the purposes of visiting the range.  Evan's book talks about this.

 

[Howard 538]

22 minutes ago, sota said:

If you are a member of a club that files the proper charter and membership list annually with the state police, you can keep your unloaded and cased firearm in your vehicle, for the purposes of visiting the range.  Evan's book talks about this.

 

Please provide more info on this, as it is contrary to anything I read in my orange book.


As far as leaving gun at a relatives house, well just right up a lease where you rent a bedroom from them ($1 a year should do it), now that house is one of your residences and you should be good to go.

[shooter28 153]

24 minutes ago, sota said:

If you are a member of a club that files the proper charter and membership list annually with the state police, you can keep your unloaded and cased firearm in your vehicle, for the purposes of visiting the range.  Evan's book talks about this.

 

Including pistol?

OP- are you shooting pistol or long gun? If its a long run and you have a FID, you can leave it unloaded and locked in the trunk.

[10X 3,296]

As if there aren't enough hoops to jump through already...be sure your employer doesn't have a 'no weapons on the premises' rule.   Some do.

[matty 810]

Just do it and shuddup about it, unless your relatives are scumbags. In which case I wouldn't do it

[Sota 1,191]

14 minutes ago, Howard said:

Please provide more info on this, as it is contrary to anything I read in my orange book.


As far as leaving gun at a relatives house, well just right up a lease where you rent a bedroom from them ($1 a year should do it), now that house is one of your residences and you should be good to go.

IIRC, it's page 104 of the latest Orange Book by Evan Nappen.  two things though:

1) I don't have it in front of me.

2) I'm absolutely raped by allergies right now, so I don't know if I'll remember to look it up when I get home.

[Persona non grata 113]

22 minutes ago, Howard said:

Please provide more info on this, as it is contrary to anything I read in my orange book.


As far as leaving gun at a relatives house, well just right up a lease where you rent a bedroom from them ($1 a year should do it), now that house is one of your residences and you should be good to go.

I've wondered about whether I could legally take my pistol to my parents' house and shoot with my father if I have a lease for $1 and a key to the house. I'm guessing that it is a viable loophole. 

 

OP - as others have said, long guns are fine as long as you have your FID. 

[Persona non grata 113]

Just now, sota said:

IIRC, it's page 104 of the latest Orange Book by Evan Nappen.  two things though:

1) I don't have it in front of me.

2) I'm absolutely raped by allergies right now, so I don't know if I'll remember to look it up when I get home.

I don't have it in front of me, but I remember reading that part of the book and still being confused on what the "pistol club exemption" really meant. 

[Sota 1,191]

per the man with the pony tail, it basically gets you as close to carry as you can get in this state.

[Sota 1,191]

N.J.S.A. 2C:39-6(f)(1)...

f.Nothing in subsections b., c. and d. of N.J.S.2C:39-5 shall be construed to prevent:

(1)A member of any rifle or pistol club organized in accordance with the rules prescribed by the National Board for the Promotion of Rifle Practice, in going to or from a place of target practice, carrying such firearms as are necessary for said target practice, provided that the club has filed a copy of its charter with the superintendent and annually submits a list of its members to the superintendent and provided further that the firearms are carried in the manner specified in subsection g. of this section;

overrides..

N.J.S.A. 2C:39-6f(3)(b)...

(3)A person transporting any firearm or knife while traveling:

(b)Directly to or from any target range, or other authorized place for the purpose of practice, match, target, trap or skeet shooting exhibitions, provided in all cases that during the course of the travel all firearms are carried in the manner specified in subsection g. of this section and the person has complied with all the provisions and requirements of Title 23 of the Revised Statutes and any amendments thereto and all rules and regulations promulgated thereunder; or

 

Also, SCFGPA people... we're NOT compliant with N.J.S.A. 2C:39-6(f)(1), and we're going to have a fight at the club about.  There's a thread coming in the private section, so BOLO.

[Persona non grata 113]

So I get that, but N.J.S.A 2C:39-6(f)(1) still requires firearms to be transported per N.J.S.A 2C:39-6(g) which includes the necessary deviation drivel.

 

N.J.S.A 2C:39-6(g)

"g. All weapons being transported under paragraph (2) of subsection b., subsection e., or paragraph (1) or (3) of subsection f. of this section shall be carried unloaded and contained in a closed and fastened case, gunbox, securely tied package, or locked in the trunk of the automobile in which it is being transported, and in the course of travel shall include only such deviations as are reasonably necessary under the circumstances."

[10X 3,296]

11 minutes ago, sota said:

Also, SCFGPA people... we're NOT compliant with N.J.S.A. 2C:39-6(f)(1), and we're going to have a fight at the club about.  There's a thread coming in the private section, so BOLO.

Is that the private section called 'bridgewater range members'?  I don't see one for SCFGPA.

Guess I'd better dig out my member number and PM a mod for access.

[Sota 1,191]

12 minutes ago, mattm754 said:

So I get that, but N.J.S.A 2C:39-6(f)(1) still requires firearms to be transported per N.J.S.A 2C:39-6(g) which includes the necessary deviation drivel.

 

N.J.S.A 2C:39-6(g)

"g. All weapons being transported under paragraph (2) of subsection b., subsection e., or paragraph (1) or (3) of subsection f. of this section shall be carried unloaded and contained in a closed and fastened case, gunbox, securely tied package, or locked in the trunk of the automobile in which it is being transported, and in the course of travel shall include only such deviations as are reasonably necessary under the circumstances."

define " reasonably necessary" in terms of case law.  hint: there isn't any. WELCOME TO NJ

[GRIZ 3,369]

Please stop with the phony baloney $1 lease stuff.

As far as storing a firearm in a locked container at a relative's house. I don't see a problem there.  It's not a transfer. The relative has no access to the firearm if its locked up.  It's not a transfer when you leave your guns at home and youre gone for a week is it? When you store firearms at one of these FFLS that rent you storage space it's not a transfer.  I can see why it would be different.

Reasonable deviation?  That's up to interpretation.  However, in 45 years of owning guns in NJ I have never heard of anyone arrested because they made an "unreasonable deviation" going to or coming from a range.  If anyone knows of such an incident, please enlighten me.  I've asked that question numerous times on this forum since it started and no one has been able to come up with one.

IANAL, but I think too many over think the reasonable deviation issue.

 

 

[Newtonian 453]

1 hour ago, sota said:

If you are a member of a club that files the proper charter and membership list annually with the state police, you can keep your unloaded and cased firearm in your vehicle, for the purposes of visiting the range.  Evan's book talks about this.

 

You can carry an unloaded long gun with you anywhere. You can even dangle it out the car window according to Nappen, who does not guarantee you will not subsequently perish in a hail of bullets from the next NJ cop who sees you. 

You cannot keep a handgun or hollow point ammo in your car unless you are specifically traveling between exempt locations. Belonging to a club helps if you're stopped and you tell the cop you're on the way to the range or gunsmith. Supposedly you can make short, necessary, reasonable stops but the distinction between short, necessary, and reasonable and long, unnecessary, and unreasonable is up to the arresting officer and judge.

 

1 minute ago, GRIZ said:

Please stop with the phony baloney $1 lease stuff.

As far as storing a firearm in a locked container at a relative's house. I don't see a problem there.  It's not a transfer. The relative has no access to the firearm if its locked up.  It's not a transfer when you leave your guns at home and youre gone for a week is it? When you store firearms at one of these FFLS that rent you storage space it's not a transfer.  I can see why it would be different.

Reasonable deviation?  That's up to interpretation.  However, in 45 years of owning guns in NJ I have never heard of anyone arrested because they made an "unreasonable deviation" going to or coming from a range.  If anyone knows of such an incident, please enlighten me.  I've asked that question numerous times on this forum since it started and no one has been able to come up with one.

IANAL, but I think too many over think the reasonable deviation issue.

 

 

You're right, and the same is true for leaving it at a relative's house. The 5-10 year sentences make pussies of us all.

[Howard 538]

1 minute ago, GRIZ said:

Please stop with the phony baloney $1 lease stuff.

As far as storing a firearm in a locked container at a relative's house. I don't see a problem there.  It's not a transfer. The relative has no access to the firearm if its locked up.  It's not a transfer when you leave your guns at home and youre gone for a week is it? When you store firearms at one of these FFLS that rent you storage space it's not a transfer.  I can see why it would be different.

Reasonable deviation?  That's up to interpretation.  However, in 45 years of owning guns in NJ I have never heard of anyone arrested because they made an "unreasonable deviation" going to or coming from a range.  If anyone knows of such an incident, please enlighten me.  I've asked that question numerous times on this forum since it started and no one has been able to come up with one.

IANAL, but I think too many over think the reasonable deviation issue.

 

 

Why do you think a lease is phony baloney?  People that don't want to charge but want a legal lease often set the rent at $1.  Just like Trump is taking a salary of $1 a year.  If you have such a lease they legally the house is one of your residences and you can transport and store hand guns there.  Are you claiming that to not be true - please show me how that is not true?

Storing a handgun in a locked box at a relative's house is not legal.  It is a transfer, as you gave them possession of it.  It is not a transfer when you leave them at home as that is an exempt location, someone else's home is not an exempt location.  The FFL thing is different as they have filed papers with the State Police.

You are right people over think these things, and your odds of ever getting caught are minimal and if you do then likely you did something really bad and they are looking for stuff.  That does not mean what you are doing is legal.

Here is an example, I have a Tavor and no one is ever going to stop me and take it apart to count the number of US made parts in the gun.  Yet the manual warns to never use non-US made magazines in the gun because if you do you are in Violation of US 992R which states the gun must have at least 10 US made parts to be legal, the magazine is one of those parts.

 

[GRIZ 3,369]

36 minutes ago, Newtonian said:

You can carry an unloaded long gun with you anywhere. You can even dangle it out the car window according to Nappen, who does not guarantee you will not subsequently perish in a hail of bullets from the next NJ cop who sees you. 

You cannot keep a handgun or hollow point ammo in your car unless you are specifically traveling between exempt locations. Belonging to a club helps if you're stopped and you tell the cop you're on the way to the range or gunsmith. Supposedly you can make short, necessary, reasonable stops but the distinction between short, necessary, and reasonable and long, unnecessary, and unreasonable is up to the arresting officer and judge.

 

You're right, and the same is true for leaving it at a relative's house. The 5-10 year sentences make pussies of us all.

Okay, please show me someone who got 5-10 years or even 5-10 days for leaving a locked up gun at a relative's house.

28 minutes ago, Howard said:

Why do you think a lease is phony baloney?  People that don't want to charge but want a legal lease often set the rent at $1.  Just like Trump is taking a salary of $1 a year.  If you have such a lease they legally the house is one of your residences and you can transport and store hand guns there.  Are you claiming that to not be true - please show me how that is not true?

Storing a handgun in a locked box at a relative's house is not legal.  It is a transfer, as you gave them possession of it.  It is not a transfer when you leave them at home as that is an exempt location, someone else's home is not an exempt location.  The FFL thing is different as they have filed papers with the State Police.

You are right people over think these things, and your odds of ever getting caught are minimal and if you do then likely you did something really bad and they are looking for stuff.  That does not mean what you are doing is legal.

Here is an example, I have a Tavor and no one is ever going to stop me and take it apart to count the number of US made parts in the gun.  Yet the manual warns to never use non-US made magazines in the gun because if you do you are in Violation of US 992R which states the gun must have at least 10 US made parts to be legal, the magazine is one of those parts.

 

Trump is required to take compensation by the COTUS.  I quess one needs the $1 a year lease if they are worried about getting kicked out.  What you say is true but I feel unnecessary.

Why do you think the FFL thing is different? The FFL thing is only for you to transport guns to and from.   It's not a transfer.  You are the only one to have a key.Otherwise you would need P2Ps, COEs, and 4473s.  It's just like you rented a storage locker.  A transfer would denote use.  If the gun is locked up there is no use.

Your Tavor is a totally different issue.  There's no one who has been prosecuted for 922r BTW.

[Newtonian 453]

22 minutes ago, GRIZ said:

Okay, please show me someone who got 5-10 years or even 5-10 days for leaving a locked up gun at a relative's house.

I can't relate a single instance. Can you name me one person who was convicted of murder in the last six months?

I'm only being 95% facetious, as you can look up the murders. Point is that shit happens, and if it happens the wrong way you lose your liberty and a good chunk of your life. It's terrorism.

I've raised the same kind of question about firearm sales and transfers. If there's no registration who's to tell? That's the surest way to end a thread on NJ Gunforums.

[Howard 538]

55 minutes ago, GRIZ said:

Okay, please show me someone who got 5-10 years or even 5-10 days for leaving a locked up gun at a relative's house.

Trump is required to take compensation by the COTUS.  I quess one needs the $1 a year lease if they are worried about getting kicked out.  What you say is true but I feel unnecessary.

Why do you think the FFL thing is different? The FFL thing is only for you to transport guns to and from.   It's not a transfer.  You are the only one to have a key.Otherwise you would need P2Ps, COEs, and 4473s.  It's just like you rented a storage locker.  A transfer would denote use.  If the gun is locked up there is no use.

Your Tavor is a totally different issue.  There's no one who has been prosecuted for 922r BTW.

I believe the FFL thing is different because you are in fact renting a physical presence, albeit a very small one.  

I don't have all the case law at my disposal, and can't tell you what has happened, but that does not mean it won't happen when some cop or prosecutor decides they want to make an example of YOU.  The point to all of this stuff is your chances of every getting caught are near zero unless you do something stupid.  The problem is that the potential penalty is so extreme that you have to be crazy to take the risk.  Don't know about you but I don't want the opportunity to get two years or more of free food, housing and medical care in a NJ state facility.

[67gtonut 847]

2 hours ago, matty said:

Just do it and shuddup about it, unless your relatives are scumbags. In which case I wouldn't do it

 

LOL.... Well he did ask about the law/rules.... he did not ask what I would do....

 

I have packed pistol in truck and went to range after work many times..... I do not own a tin foil hat, so I see no issues.

[Ray Ray 3,566]

The less you broadcast your business, the better off you are.

[Smokin .50 1,907]

^^^Ray and Griz for the WIN!

When Sandy hit a few years back the local Cops and NJSP went around to the Big Ticket properties and told the owners to move their expensive cars, valuables AND FIREARMS to a safer location, such as a friend's or relatives house or apartment.  So were the Cops telling you to break the law or merely pointing-out a common-sense interpretation of written law?  If it doesn't say you CAN'T do something, then you CAN, lol!  You CAN breathe AIR, you don't need permission via typed written word to do so...

[Sota 1,191]

I believe the phrasing Evan used was...

I do answer questions.  Here are my driver's license, insurance card, and registration.

IF that's the day some hat decides you're getting the full treatment, nothing you do or don't do will change that.

1 minute ago, Smokin .50 said:

^^^Ray and Griz for the WIN!

When Sandy hit a few years back the local Cops and NJSP went around to the Big Ticket properties and told the owners to move their expensive cars, valuables AND FIREARMS to a safer location, such as a friend's or relatives house or apartment.  So were the Cops telling you to break the law or merely pointing-out a common-sense interpretation of written law?  If it doesn't say you CAN'T do something, then you CAN, lol!  You CAN breathe AIR, you don't need permission via typed written word to do so...

actually, in NJ it's the opposite.  Remember, guns are illegal, except by exception.  You own firearms in this state at your peril.

[Ray Ray 3,566]

This thread, along with many others, are the reason why the Anti's don't have to do anything to defeat us.  Because we eat our own.

 

[Tunaman 548]

There is NO exemption for even BRINGING a handgun to your relatives house...never mind storing it there.   You cant even bring the damn thing shark fishing.