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Why are the Pro 2a groups nonexistent here?

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52 minutes ago, JohnnyB said:

They do come here..........Then we chase them away!

This.  I've witnessed 2 different instances where a prominent NJ RKBA advocates came in and left in disgust at the combination of negativity "You're not doing enough / Your strategies suck" and apathy "Nah, I'm not contributing to that effort, it's a waste of time".

This place even recently pissed Anthony Colandro off, and he's no softy from what I can tell.

I don't bother trying to drum up support for the orgs I belong to in here.

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1 hour ago, DirtyDigz said:

This.  I've witnessed 2 different instances where a prominent NJ RKBA advocates came in and left in disgust at the combination of negativity "You're not doing enough / Your strategies suck" and apathy "Nah, I'm not contributing to that effort, it's a waste of time".

This place even recently pissed Anthony Colandro off, and he's no softy from what I can tell.

I don't bother trying to drum up support for the orgs I belong to in here.

What happened with Anthony? He has always come off like a sensitive Sammy but I know he is very high up on the pole in terms of 2A and NJ politics. Or maybe it's the fact that in rush hour traffic he cut me off in that ridiculous gunforhire truck and I almost totaled my truck cause of that guy.

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1 hour ago, DirtyDigz said:

Holy shit how'd I miss all that.  I think Anthony is the real deal on 2a. I like that guy Roubian (sp?) as well.   He seems to have a big set of balls on him.  

However, I felt the PO6 guys were preserving rights for themselves.  They didn't diminish the criteria of need in NJ they just battled the courts to summit that requirement. If anything they further cemented justifiable need.  I also found it disingenuous they way they portrayed their activities here.   I  questioned  him respectfully for information and he was cagey and, in my estimation, misleading. 

These are my opinions  

 

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I've never seen so many haters and keyboard commandos in one place.  I don't begrudge people for their commercial success or ability to obtain a CCW.  Or, blame any pro-2A person or group for not having CCW in this state.  But, I've seen that behavior here.  It must be a NJ thing...

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55 minutes ago, Rob0115 said:

Holy shit how'd I miss all that.  I think Anthony is the real deal on 2a. I like that guy Roubian (sp?) as well.   He seems to have a big set of balls on him.  

However, I felt the PO6 guys were preserving rights for themselves.  They didn't diminish the criteria of need in NJ they just battled the courts to summit that requirement. If anything they further cemented justifiable need.  I also found it disingenuous they way they portrayed their activities here.   I  questioned  him respectfully for information and he was cagey and, in my estimation, misleading. 

These are my opinions  

 

I share your opinion on P06, at least a couple of the members.  I donated multiple times so I believe I get to have an opinion.  I was very disappointed that one of the plaintiffs dropped out of the case, which left only Almeida and of course NJ granted him a permit to make the case go away (although I wonder what happens when he goes to renew in  a couple of years).

However, one good thing that came out of PO6 is that they got Stephen Stamboulieh (http://www.sdslaw.us/blog) involved as an 'outsider' to the NJ RKBA struggle.  Stamboulieh was the driving force on the recent stun gun law repeal.  I find it amazing that in how many years that's been on the books that ANJRPC never went after that law, especially after the Heller/McDonald and Caetano decisions.

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The general level of toxicity in this place is one of the reasons I've been taking some time away (not that I expect anyone to notice, or frankly care if they did) and focusing on more important, real life things.  It doesn't surprise me that so many groups or politicians that are trying to help, abandon this place in pure frustration.

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This is SUPPOSED to be a pro 2A forum, yet we completely trash, 2nd guess and piss off every 2A organization that attempts to reach out to us! Especially NJ2AS and ANJRPC. Considering how few pro 2A organizations we have, perhaps we should throw our support behind them and put our money where our mouths are! Regardless of whether we all agree of their tactics, they are on OUR side!

I support NJ2AS and am now putting my money where my mouth is and joining Rosie's group. The CNJFO! We have very few friends in the PRNJ. We need to support them!

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I agree, yet again, with Ray. There are several examples of "eating our own" in threads where the same questions are constantly asked that start "is it legal..." then the resident experts will pontificate about how taking a pee can land you in jail.

I gotta ask, are there any gun owners in New Jersey that are unaware of the peril they live under? 

Ever bring a "questionable" weapon to a public range? Maybe an adjustable stock, threaded barrel or a muzzle device that you can put your pinky in? And the outrage by the "resident experts" about your transgression? Surprised they aren't calling the SP weapons unit. I know of no other hobby where the adherents are obsessed with minutia of ridiculous laws. Could you imagine if your local speed shop was like us? We'd all be in Priuses, driving 5 miles under the speed limit. Because, you know, to be sure you don't break the law. 

Is it a wonder those that fight for our rights get frustrated and leave after any interaction with this forum? 

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NJ2AS was born here, outgrew the grassroots movement, and became a very strong advocate for our rights in NJ.  There used to be a section for NJ2AS before they split off to it's own website, etc.

CNJFO is here as well - they're fighting the good fight.

ANJRPC - too big to come here and do they really fight for us?

SAF - ?

 

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1 hour ago, Walt of Destiny said:

I agree, yet again, with Ray. There are several examples of "eating our own" in threads where the same questions are constantly asked that start "is it legal..." then the resident experts will pontificate about how taking a pee can land you in jail.

I gotta ask, are there any gun owners in New Jersey that are unaware of the peril they live under? 

Ever bring a "questionable" weapon to a public range? Maybe an adjustable stock, threaded barrel or a muzzle device that you can put your pinky in? And the outrage by the "resident experts" about your transgression? Surprised they aren't calling the SP weapons unit. I know of no other hobby where the adherents are obsessed with minutia of ridiculous laws. Could you imagine if your local speed shop was like us? We'd all be in Priuses, driving 5 miles under the speed limit. Because, you know, to be sure you don't break the law. 

Is it a wonder those that fight for our rights get frustrated and leave after any interaction with this forum? 

I think you're being a bit harsh on posters. It's safe to say nobody who posts here regularly knows all the NJ gun laws or narcs on anybody. Nothing wrong with asking, or if you know for sure for explaining. That's part of the reason these forumns exist. Everybody takes the law, whether it be guns or anything else, to their comfort level.

Just about every hobby has rules that some people think are silly. Given the worst consequences of screwing up in NJ (jail) or anywhere else (death) it's not totally nutso to be concerned with the rules.

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2 hours ago, JohnnyB said:

This is SUPPOSED to be a pro 2A forum, yet we completely trash, 2nd guess and piss off every 2A organization that attempts to reach out to us! Especially NJ2AS and ANJRPC. Considering how few pro 2A organizations we have, perhaps we should throw our support behind them and put our money where our mouths are! Regardless of whether we all agree of their tactics, they are on OUR side!

I support NJ2AS and am now putting my money where my mouth is and joining Rosie's group. The CNJFO! We have very few friends in the PRNJ. We need to support them!

You're like the 3rd person who writes this. Other than Roubian, whose forum bruises were IMO self-inflicted, I don't recall any others. Rosie posts here frequently. PO6 used to post here even though they got dumped on quite a bit. I don't see how ANJRPC would benefit from posting here, say through Scott Bach. I heard Anthony Colandro was mad about something too but I didn't catch what it was. What exactly do you expect people in their position to do in the forums?

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7 hours ago, Newtonian said:

I think you're being a bit harsh on posters. It's safe to say nobody who posts here regularly knows all the NJ gun laws or narcs on anybody. Nothing wrong with asking, or if you know for sure for explaining. That's part of the reason these forumns exist. Everybody takes the law, whether it be guns or anything else, to their comfort level.

Just about every hobby has rules that some people think are silly. Given the worst consequences of screwing up in NJ (jail) or anywhere else (death) it's not totally nutso to be concerned with the rules.

I can see how you could think that. But in the very few forums I participate in, this is the only one where newcomers aren't politely told to use the search functions, and read some, before posting for the millionth time the same questions. I agree that we live in a province where our betters change the laws at will and the interpretations of those fluid laws are even more imponderable. Our feudal masters keep laws vague so they can be applied —or not— at their whim. I don't know of any thread asking the same half a dozen basic questions, worded in a thousand different ways, that has ever ended up in a resolution of the question. No matter how it's posed. 

If I had a nickel for every "what if I..." in response to "no you can't do that in NJ" I'd have a bunch of nickles. 

Not being a downer here. It's a worthwhile forum, but we do indulge in meaningless circle jerks about crap that if you did a modicum of research on your own from trusted sources like the stinking code itself, you wouldn't be asking for input from the usual experts on here. 

How long has NJ sucked for 2a? Sure as shit ain't yesterday. There are no loopholes. There isn't finessing these draconian rules. Guns, in general in NJ, are illegal and can land you in the stony lonesome in a second. Even if you do everything right. Including fudds trampling through the woods with their scatterguns dutifully plugged(feel safer?) 

Does everyone realize that? I thought we did. 

Oh by the way, is it illegal if I have hollowpoints in my 1911/Glock/XDM when I'm at home, you know... for self defense... geez! 

If you are concerned about the rules, go pay a lawyer to tell you the same wrong info you've researched on here. At least you'll have a real person's number to call when they're knocking on your door...'cause "I read it on NJGF" ain't a defense. 

 

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17 minutes ago, Walt of Destiny said:

I can see how you could think that. But in the very few forums I participate in, this is the only one where newcomers aren't politely told to use the search functions, and read some, before posting for the millionth time the same questions. I agree that we live in a province where our betters change the laws at will and the interpretations of those fluid laws are even more imponderable. Our feudal masters keep laws vague so they can be applied —or not— at their whim. I don't know of any thread asking the same half a dozen basic questions, worded in a thousand different ways, that has ever ended up in a resolution of the question. No matter how it's posed. 

If I had a nickel for every "what if I..." in response to "no you can't do that in NJ" I'd have a bunch of nickles. 

Not being a downer here. It's a worthwhile forum, but we do indulge in meaningless circle jerks about crap that if you did a modicum of research on your own from trusted sources like the stinking code itself, you wouldn't be asking for input from the usual experts on here. 

How long has NJ sucked for 2a? Sure as shit ain't yesterday. There are no loopholes. There isn't finessing these draconian rules. Guns, in general in NJ, are illegal and can land you in the stony lonesome in a second. Even if you do everything right. Including fudds trampling through the woods with their scatterguns dutifully plugged(feel safer?) 

Does everyone realize that? I thought we did. 

Oh by the way, is it illegal if I have hollowpoints in my 1911/Glock/XDM when I'm at home, you know... for self defense... geez! 

If you are concerned about the rules, go pay a lawyer to tell you the same wrong info you've researched on here. At least you'll have a real person's number to call when they're knocking on your door...'cause "I read it on NJGF" ain't a defense. 

 

Down Simba. I've posted about 5x as much as you have. This issue is 6th or 7th on my list of dislikes. Not everyone, particularly newbies, is aware that certain things have posted 300 times already. If one person doesn't know the bizarre laws regarding HPs it's a good bet 15-20 people don't know or remember. I don't remember them fully myself so I rely on a decision I made very early on which is simply not to buy hollow point ammo. If you think a thread titled, "Can I Drive Around With My 10/22 Unloaded In the Trunk" is lame DON'T READ IT. But don't tell 20 year old Joey Ninefinger Mozzarella from Bayonne that he can't ask, and Wise Glockbuggerer from Gutenberg that he can't respond.

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In all fairness the gun laws here can be ambiguous and confusing, either by design and/or incompetence. Laws, statutes, administrative code, AG memos and updates, NJSP rules & suggestions, lack of precedent and throw in a few letters and rulings from the ATF and a judge who has his own interprtation of what a HP is... they do sometimes conflict and leave you scratching your head. But I agree, do the research first. Come on here saying "hey I looked here, there...but cant quite grasp the info..." is fine to me. Dont like seeing the same stuff over and over do what i do, click, moving on.

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13 hours ago, WhiskeyTangoFoxtrot said:

I've never seen so many haters and keyboard commandos in one place.  I don't begrudge people for their commercial success or ability to obtain a CCW.  Or, blame any pro-2A person or group for not having CCW in this state.  But, I've seen that behavior here.  It must be a NJ thing...

I don't begrudge anyone for anything but don't pretend you are trying to help a broader community when in fact you are only helping yourself (PO6).  

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13 hours ago, JohnnyB said:

This is SUPPOSED to be a pro 2A forum, yet we completely trash, 2nd guess and piss off every 2A organization that attempts to reach out to us! Especially NJ2AS and ANJRPC. Considering how few pro 2A organizations we have, perhaps we should throw our support behind them and put our money where our mouths are! Regardless of whether we all agree of their tactics, they are on OUR side!

I support NJ2AS and am now putting my money where my mouth is and joining Rosie's group. The CNJFO! We have very few friends in the PRNJ. We need to support them!

Thanks for your kind words & support.  We all need to band together to fight for our collective rights instead of, as Ray-Ray says, be "guilty of eating our own".  I look forward to discussing any ideas you may have to better spread the 2A Gospel.  Check us out on Facebook if you can:  www.facebook.com/cnjfo .

Rosey

http://www.cnjfo.com 

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Sometimes when I visit this forum I run into lots of skepticism about things I tell you I've done that I've been told to do by LEO's.  That I've been told to do decades ago from mentors whom I trust.  I get challenged, called-out, "beat-up" or told that I'm crazy.  Fortunately this happens rarely and only a certain few "regulars" are guilty of the BS.  I have extensive experience in quite a few shooting disciplines, and because of this "I got to see HOW THE SAUSAGES ARE MADE".  By that I refer to how the club members train, legally transport and most importantly USE their various platforms during competitive league activities.  This insight and LOTS of other real-life firearms experience has taught me to realize that there are two basic types of NJ Gun Owner:  

1.  Folks whom are scared of their own shadow and rush to judge (and even worse--criticize) others for stopping to pick-up or discharge a passenger, stopping to pee or get a cheeseburger or transport hand guns and ammo on a intrastate basis w/o following federal (FOPA) guidelines (unloaded gun and ammo in the same Range Bag IS allowed in NJ), etc.

2.  Shooters like Griz, Ray-Ray, myself and LOTS of others that do what needs done and makes the most sense at the time.  In other words, "normal people" w/o the "Chicken Little" complex.  

 

When I get harassed here, I sometimes consider abandoning this place as a "Lost Cause" full of "Negative Nellie's".  It is at those times when I remember a quote from Teddy Roosevelt:

 

"It is not the critic who counts; not the man (or woman-Ed) who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better.

The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs, who comes short again and again, because there is no effort without error and shortcoming; but who does actually strive to do the deeds; who knows great enthusiasms, the great devotions; who spends himself in a worthy cause; who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who at the worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who neither know victory nor defeat. "---T. Roosevelt

 

I'm NOT going anywhere.  I won't be forced into the night.  Those of you that feel the same as I do are welcome to join our merry band of Do-ers as we attempt to right wrongs instead of sit on our asses and bitch!

Rosey

http://www.cnjfo.com/join-us 

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I've seen plenty of magazines that held more than 15.  Did I say anything?  Nope

I've also seen collapsing stocks, semi auto shotguns with extended tubes, pistol grip semi auto shotguns and everything else that people own freely in other states.   Do i say anything?  Nope

Maybe it's the Bayonne mindset that I have, but I don't rat.  Remember what Jimmy said in Goodfellas, you learned the two most important things in life.  Always keep your mouth shut and don't rat on your friends.

 

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I know it's not much, but I always try to bring someone new to the range that has never fired a handgun or has been afraid. At least 1-2 a month sometimes more.  I show them it's not something to fear but to respect, it's not a evil weapon but a tool. It doesn't hurt anyone by itself. If enough people learn this and maybe enjoy going to a range, and are educated that they might NOT be able to enjoy this hobby because of the Dems  they might vote REP.  Already had a number of people apply for a FID card.  We might not change anything this year but maybe in years to come it might change the mentality. 

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10 hours ago, Newtonian said:

Down Simba. I've posted about 5x as much as you have. This issue is 6th or 7th on my list of dislikes. Not everyone, particularly newbies, is aware that certain things have posted 300 times already. If one person doesn't know the bizarre laws regarding HPs it's a good bet 15-20 people don't know or remember. I don't remember them fully myself so I rely on a decision I made very early on which is simply not to buy hollow point ammo. If you think a thread titled, "Can I Drive Around With My 10/22 Unloaded In the Trunk" is lame DON'T READ IT. But don't tell 20 year old Joey Ninefinger Mozzarella from Bayonne that he can't ask, and Wise Glockbuggerer from Gutenberg that he can't respond.

Sorry Mufasa, I didn't mean to not know my place, but just as a small bit of info; Although I may not have posted as much as you, I have been a member longer, so there!  I'm being facetious, of course. I get  what you mean and of course I have the ability to ignore these fruitless and redundant threads rehashing how a pinky in a hole can get "the dime" dropped on you at certain locales of moral superiority. Come to think of it, this thread  has become what I loathe, sort of. But no matter, I see your point of view, I hope you can see mine...

By the way, did you know that the only word in the English language that has all the vowels, in the correct order, is "facetious"? I know what you're thinking, and yes you're right, "facetiously" even includes the 'sometimes y". 

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