Twospot

Man, NJ is even ragging on SIg

47 posts in this topic

I think it would be cool to have a NJSP marked pistol... I'm not an operator nor do I pretend to be, so a hiccup at the range is OK as I wouldn't plan on using the pistol for home defense if it doesn't prove itself reliable.

NJ tax payers should have first crack at these.

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2 minutes ago, yukongt2000 said:

I think it would be cool to have a NJSP marked pistol... I'm not an operator nor do I pretend to be, so a hiccup at the range is OK as I wouldn't plan on using the pistol for home defense if it doesn't prove itself reliable.

NJ tax payers should have first crack at these.

NJSP did not want their guns to be remarketed as Sig often does, so they were scrapped. 

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5 hours ago, yukongt2000 said:

Where can I sign up to get one of these used Sig police pistols for cheap?

Unfortunately, it won't happen. The PRNJ does not allow the resale of replaced NJSP firearms. All the old(er) weapons are destroyed. Troopers are not even allowed to buy their own weapons. Trooper friend told me all the old weapons are cut into three sections so they cannot be reused. 

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3 hours ago, yukongt2000 said:

I think it would be cool to have a NJSP marked pistol... I'm not an operator nor do I pretend to be, so a hiccup at the range is OK as I wouldn't plan on using the pistol for home defense if it doesn't prove itself reliable.

NJ tax payers should have first crack at these.

There is a significant loss everytime a state agency changes weapons.  

NJSP and Police in general are not great handgun operators in general.  Believe me.

1 minute ago, Maksim said:

What's the rationale behind it?  

They dont want them to be used in a crime and the last known user would be a State LE agency.  It has happend twice that I know of in the past.  Not with the State Police but with another agency.

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4 hours ago, Maksim said:

Would love to hear Sig's side of the story.

In any case, the complaint does not actually state how many of the guns actually had issues.  I wonder how many lunches Glock reps took out the powers that be.

I am still in disbelief that SOOOO many guns can have so many issues, yet other departments don't have any?

And reading the complaint, they allege that both the Enhanced Elites and Legacies have had the issues.

At the end Sig suggested it may be the barrels and offered to replace but NJSP already ordered Glock 19s as replacements. 

Don't get me wrong, I am not a Sig fanboy, far from it, I am just having a hard time accepting the allegations are complete reality.

The only way we'll hear Sig's side of the story is if it goes to trial.  I don't think that's going to happen as I've already said.  It behooves Sig to make this go away as fast as possible.

I've had a couple of free lunches from gun manufacturers.  They might get a contract from a smaller agency that way but every larger agency has some type of trials the gun has to pass.  If it doesn't perform it doesn't get bought.  The guns Sig submitted to NJSP apparently passed.  The ones Sig sold them was apparently a different lot.

I can understand how an agency can wind with a lot of guns with a problem.   You usually get a run of consecutive serial numbers on a big order.  If there is some defect in some of the guns in that run you're going to wind up with a lot of them.

I think Sig is a bit culpable as they tried to take the cheap way out by replacing small parts and then said "let's try replacing barrels".  I suspect they knew the barrels were defective in some way early on but continued to try to fix it on the cheap.  Total speculation on my part.

There were some recall issues I experienced with Glock.  When I retired the agency I worked for had been issuing Glocks for 7 or 8 years.  Some agents had been using personally owned Glock for up to almost 20 years. We never had any magazine issues with Glock but Glock replaced all our magazines 3 times during those 7 or 8 years.   That's like over 30,000 magazines for just my agency 

Our G26s were in service for a few years.  No problems.  One day got complete replacement frames for all of them.  The new frames worked no problem with the old slides.  Not something you'd expect if it were a metal frame gun.

Apparently someone was having an issue with the magazines and 26 frames.  Instead of heming and hawking Glock replaced everything.  

I never experienced an issue like what's going on with the Sigs though.

 

 

 

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56 minutes ago, blksheep said:

There is a significant loss everytime a state agency changes weapons.  

NJSP and Police in general are not great handgun operators in general.  Believe me.

They dont want them to be used in a crime and the last known user would be a State LE agency.  It has happend twice that I know of in the past.  Not with the State Police but with another agency.

Most Federal agencies destroy their out of service and seized guns.  Customs used to sell them to FFLS  and use the money to fund new firearms.  They sold their 686 "CS1" revolvers to FFLs who sold them to the public in the 90s. Someone bought one and used it to commit suicide about a year later.  The press got hold of the fact it was a CS1 and got a lot of mileage from "US Customs supplies gun for suicide".

Customs started destroying all their old guns as NYPD has for years.

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59 minutes ago, Purple Patrick said:

Local guys can buy their pistol right? I had the opportunity when a department switched to gen 4 glocks to buy a gen 3

Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk
 

Yes.  Most local guys I know can buy theirs.

19 minutes ago, GRIZ said:

The only way we'll hear Sig's side of the story is if it goes to trial.  I don't think that's going to happen as I've already said.  It behooves Sig to make this go away as fast as possible.

I've had a couple of free lunches from gun manufacturers.  They might get a contract from a smaller agency that way but every larger agency has some type of trials the gun has to pass.  If it doesn't perform it doesn't get bought.  The guns Sig submitted to NJSP apparently passed.  The ones Sig sold them was apparently a different lot.

I can understand how an agency can wind with a lot of guns with a problem.   You usually get a run of consecutive serial numbers on a big order.  If there is some defect in some of the guns in that run you're going to wind up with a lot of them.

I think Sig is a bit culpable as they tried to take the cheap way out by replacing small parts and then said "let's try replacing barrels".  I suspect they knew the barrels were defective in some way early on but continued to try to fix it on the cheap.  Total speculation on my part.

There were some recall issues I experienced with Glock.  When I retired the agency I worked for had been issuing Glocks for 7 or 8 years.  Some agents had been using personally owned Glock for up to almost 20 years. We never had any magazine issues with Glock but Glock replaced all our magazines 3 times during those 7 or 8 years.   That's like over 30,000 magazines for just my agency 

Our G26s were in service for a few years.  No problems.  One day got complete replacement frames for all of them.  The new frames worked no problem with the old slides.  Not something you'd expect if it were a metal frame gun.

Apparently someone was having an issue with the magazines and 26 frames.  Instead of heming and hawking Glock replaced everything.  

I never experienced an issue like what's going on with the Sigs though.

 

 

 

I know of a couple of Depts in South Jersey that was having problems with their Sigs as well.

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18 hours ago, GRIZ said:

Most Federal agencies destroy their out of service and seized guns.  Customs used to sell them to FFLS  and use the money to fund new firearms.  They sold their 686 "CS1" revolvers to FFLs who sold them to the public in the 90s. Someone bought one and used it to commit suicide about a year later.  The press got hold of the fact it was a CS1 and got a lot of mileage from "US Customs supplies gun for suicide".

Customs started destroying all their old guns as NYPD has for years.

Yes destroyed or I've also heard of them being given as aid to other countries in Central and South America

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20 hours ago, Stonecoldchavez said:

Unfortunately, it won't happen. The PRNJ does not allow the resale of replaced NJSP firearms. All the old(er) weapons are destroyed. Troopers are not even allowed to buy their own weapons. Trooper friend told me all the old weapons are cut into three sections so they cannot be reused. 

I was told the state paid someone to cut them in half long ways and then offered to sell one half to the trooper that carried it. No one seemed to take the state's offer and they then paid for them to be destroyed. Our tax dollars hard at work!

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3 hours ago, Oakridgefirearms said:

I was told the state paid someone to cut them in half long ways and then offered to sell one half to the trooper that carried it. No one seemed to take the state's offer and they then paid for them to be destroyed. Our tax dollars hard at work!

Thats funny.

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This posted in the comments section at TTAG, it's validity is unknown.  A lot if information and if true a trial will bear it out.

 

"This is the third and last time I will try to answer the questions. If people won’t read what I write, I cannot help them. I sold them the weapons and I sell them quite a bit of ammunition. I am the State Contractor for weapons and/or ammunition in a dozen States. They carry Speer 53618. Worked fine in the 228 and worked fine in the 229’s.

They practice with the Speer 53651. Worked fine in the 228’s. Would not reliably cycle the 229’s. Neither would the Federal AE9AP. Neither are cheap.

Sig identified the problem. They agreed to replace the slides. They replaced the first 200 slides. They worked flawlessly. Then there was a personality conflict between upper echelons of the NJSP and Sig and after the problem was fixed, someone went to Glock out of spite after the NJSP armorers were over-ruled.

End of story.

Thomas J. Morris III
Major USMCR (retired)
Member NJ/PA/OH Bars
Instructor Gloucester Co. Police Academy (NJ) 26 years
Eagle Point Gun/T.J.Morris & Son
1707 Third Street
Thorofare, NJ 08086
PH 856-848-6945
FX 856-384-2938"

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