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High Exposure

NBC Piece on Bail Reform

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I can't really comment too much on this due to the nature of my position, but I think NJ residents should be aware of how the new Bail Reform thing is working out.

"Nobody is afraid to commit crimes"

http://www.nbcnewyork.com/investigations/Bail-Reform-New-Jersey-Criminals-Streets-Law-Jail-Investigation-422965474.html

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heh, wow.  When was this enacted?  Christie signed it?

You know what would solve this?  More gun laws such as lower magazine limits, and let's oh yeah, ban the 50 cal. lol. (obviously sarcasm).

Did not realize the bail bonds industry is effectively out of business.

Good job NJ.... destroy hundreds/thousands of businesses which employ thousands.... AND release more criminals out into the streets.  

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This went into effect on Jan 1, 2017.

This is also costing small PDs tens of thousands in OT, and impacting available manpower for calls on a regular basis.

Combine this, with a lack of discretion due to the wearing of body cameras (more arrests for minor offenses when previously discretion was used and you cut folks loose with a warning) and you are seeing a serious decrease in response time and an officer safety issue when you can only send one cop to calls that should have 2 or more responding.

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2 minutes ago, High Exposure said:

This went into effect on Jan 1, 2017.

This is also costing small PDs tens of thousands in OT, and impacting available manpower for calls on a regular basis.

Combine this, with a lack of discretion due to the wearing of body cameras (more arrests for minor offenses when previously discretion was used and you cut folks loose with a warning) and you are seeing a serious decrease in response time and an officer safety issue when you can only send one cop to calls that should have 2 or more responding.

I meant when was it passed/legislation.  =) 

Thanks for your perspective, would not even think about it. 

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Maks, bail reform was enacted after NJs voting public approved a referendum on the ballot in November of 2014.

The ballot question heading read :

“Constitutional amendment to allow a court to order pretrial detention of a person in a criminal case.”

The question posed to voters read as follows:

Do you approve amending the Constitution to allow a court to order pretrial detention of a person in a criminal case? This would change the current constitutional right to bail. The change to the Constitution would mean that a court could order that a person remain in jail prior to trial, even without a chance for the person to post bail, in some situations. The amendment also removes language in the Constitution about bail eligibility for death penalty cases. The death penalty no longer exists in New Jersey.

Just in case voters were not sure about what this meant, it came with an interpretive statement which read:

The Constitution currently requires a court to grant bail to a jailed person in a criminal case before trial. If the person posts bail, the person is released from jail pending trial. The amendment would give a court the option of ordering a person to remain in jail in some situations. The court could order such detention based upon concerns that the person, if released: will not return to court; is a threat to the safety of another person or the community; or will obstruct or attempt to obstruct the criminal justice process. The amendment authorizes the Legislature to pass laws concerning pretrial release and pretrial detention. The amendment would take effect on January 1, 2017 to allow any new laws to be enacted and their requirements to be established. The amendment would also remove language in the Constitution about bail eligibility for death penalty cases. The death penalty no longer exists in New Jersey. Lt. Governor Kimberly M. Guadagno, Secretary of State.

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So the question and interpretive statement were worded in such a way as to conceal the true nature of the measure?  Made it sound like a good thing: "yeah we can deny bail to someone really dangerous!" when in reality it meant "well in all but the most severe cases we're just going to let everyone walk free".

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I'm shocked... and yet I'm not! This is part of the larger trend - an inordinate concern placed on avoiding discrimination against criminals (because they tend to also be disproportionately black, poor, etc. - cue the violin music). That was a movement in part led by our own former President - who pardoned a record number of felons.

The problem with that theory is... as crime studies repeatedly reveal, and as that report rightly shows by focusing on that grieving mom... their crime victims also tend to be disproportionately poor people of color.  So, where's the concern for those folks - the actual victims?

Kudos to this station for doing the report. Real investigative journalism. Wow! I hope it gets some traction before more bodies pile up.

(And on a side note... honestly, I see crap like that and I think, "Yeah, why wouldn't I buy a HD gun and have a tough attitude about using it?" When criminals don't fear the law, that's a dangerous situation for the rest of us.)

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2 hours ago, High Exposure said:

Combine this, with a lack of discretion due to the wearing of body cameras (more arrests for minor offenses when previously discretion was used and you cut folks loose with a warning) 

Why? This sounds like a LE policy issue, not a problem with cameras. 

 

2 hours ago, High Exposure said:

The amendment authorizes the Legislature to pass laws concerning pretrial release and pretrial detention.

^^^ Never a good idea… 

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When the crime statistics come out and crime is up for the first time in years, guess who is going to get blamed.  So you'll be told only the Dumbocrats can solve crime, vote for them.  Then more do nothing laws.  It's all about power and control.  End of society and NJ is forthcoming.  

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On 5/19/2017 at 9:01 AM, High Exposure said:

This went into effect on Jan 1, 2017.

This is also costing small PDs tens of thousands in OT, and impacting available manpower for calls on a regular basis.

Combine this, with a lack of discretion due to the wearing of body cameras (more arrests for minor offenses when previously discretion was used and you cut folks loose with a warning) and you are seeing a serious decrease in response time and an officer safety issue when you can only send one cop to calls that should have 2 or more responding.

It isn't just the PD's

My county has a prosecutor task force just for Bail, now. And it's all they do.

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Who was the cry baby skirt hanger that thought up this one? (Being facetious, don't care)...

If they added this method and kept the original bail system in place, they would have been better off. It made no difference in the past whether grandma put a mortgage on her house just to let her grandson get out till trial. Most I ran into could care less about the person or family that bailed them out. They would abscond from justice any way they saw fit because they -thought- they could get away with it.

If anything, I would have raised the required minimum of 10% to a higher percentage. But these pussy law makers would have thought that was not fair either. Hey, but thats just me.

Some of the system's complaints were always over crowding in jails. I would have rather had everything stay status quo and let very minor crimes have their sentences commuted to make room.

Over crowding has been a problem for decades. It is not just local prisons or jail systems. Its federal too. ICE for example, didn't even have room to book incoming arrests. It was/is crazy.

Our system has always been a revolving door. HE is right. This is a heavy burden on our LEO. They didn't have time or resources before to re-arrest someone. What makes the politicians think it will be any better now?
Any dept that may be able to get funds for a task force will be rough on the tax payer. But I don't see that happening.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

It isn't just the PD's
My county has a prosecutor task force just for Bail, now. And it's all they do.


.....and like I said. The tax payers get stuck in the ass as always. [emoji35]


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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If our gun laws are so tough, how did this happen?

Outraged mother June Rodgers of Millville blames bail reform for the murder of her son. He was shot to death on a street in Vineland in April after a verbal dispute with a man driving a car. Cops arrested career criminal Jules Black, who’d been picked up on a separate gun charge four days before, and released with no bail.

 

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Well, it would appear that even those in the NJ court system realized fairly quickly they made a BIG mistake with the bail reform! They are already making some adjustments to the law... I'll leave you all to judge whether it's enough or not:

http://www.trentonian.com/article/TT/20170525/NEWS/170529835

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Couple this with the NJ Supreme court ruling that requires an overhaul of the sentencing guidelines for minors that commit violent crimes and I see a big problem on the horizon!

http://www.nj.com/politics/index.ssf/2017/01/nj_supreme_court_issues_significant_ruling_on_sentencing_youths.html

 

 

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On 5/19/2017 at 11:33 AM, Cereza said:

Why? This sounds like a LE policy issue, not a problem with cameras.

The problem with discretion and cameras:

-You as the LEO interact with "minor offender" possibly for some DPO.

-You use your discretion and allow the "offender" to walk.

-That "offender" then goes out and commits a serious indictable offense.

You better believe that video is going to be on the 10 P.M. news along with a Monday night quarterbacking of how you screwed up.

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1 hour ago, jm1827 said:

Couple this with the NJ Supreme court ruling that requires an overhaul of the sentencing guidelines for minors that commit violent crimes and I see a big problem on the horizon!

http://www.nj.com/politics/index.ssf/2017/01/nj_supreme_court_issues_significant_ruling_on_sentencing_youths.html

 

 

Yeah, wow... this is yet another worrisome trend.  It's hard to imagine that NJ isn't going to see some significant crime spikes with all of this going on. I feel particularly bad for people who live in gang-ridden, crime-infested areas. The courts seem to be LOOKING for any excuse to put these criminals back on the street. I have ZERO sympathy for a 17-year-old who had already been convicted of 2 (not 1, but 2!!) gang rapes. It's hard to imagine a more violent and cruel crime.

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19 minutes ago, Vicious said:

The problem with discretion and cameras:

-You as the LEO interact with "minor offender" possibly for some DPO.

-You use your discretion and allow the "offender" to walk.

-That "offender" then goes out and commits a serious indictable offense.

You better believe that video is going to be on the 10 P.M. news along with a Monday night quarterbacking of how you screwed up.

Its what is "viewed" on camera after the fact by the brass or public later on.  So her is a hypothetical situation for you:

You are sent to a residence for a barking dog complaint.  While speaking with the dog owner, you observe on the coffee table a multicolored glass pipe with a partially burnt greenish / brown vegetative substance in it.  The person you are speaking with is being polite, calm, respectful and has has zero interactions with police prior to today.  The resident had also lived in your town for years and police have never been to this residence before.  Unfortunately you now have to act on the pipe and arrest for DP possession of CDS and Paraphernalia.  If you don't, you run the risk of the brass reviewing your video and seeing that you failed to act.  You are now being charged at work and face suspension / loss of job.

Everyone wants transparency, and full documentation until they are wearing bracelets sitting in the back of a patrol unit.

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When someone is "scored" to see if they are going to be held sent to County (placed on a complaint warrant) or released (placed on a complaint summons) they are scored by their previous criminal history and failures to appear for court matters.  The system only looks at their New Jersey Criminal History, and does not look nation wide.  

So hypothetically you could have a repeat violent felon who committed violent crimes in multiple other states.  This same person now committed another serious crime in New Jersey.  Since that person had zero history in New Jersey for violent crimes and failure to appears, they will be placed on a summons and released.

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9 minutes ago, medic2264 said:

Its what is "viewed" on camera after the fact by the brass or public later on.  So her is a hypothetical situation for you:

You are sent to a residence for a barking dog complaint.  While speaking with the dog owner, you observe on the coffee table a multicolored glass pipe with a partially burnt greenish / brown vegetative substance in it.  The person you are speaking with is being polite, calm, respectful and has has zero interactions with police prior to today.  The resident had also lived in your town for years and police have never been to this residence before.  Unfortunately you now have to act on the pipe and arrest for DP possession of CDS and Paraphernalia.  If you don't, you run the risk of the brass reviewing your video and seeing that you failed to act.  You are now being charged at work and face suspension / loss of job.

Everyone wants transparency, and full documentation until they are wearing bracelets sitting in the back of a patrol unit.

Lol, exactly. That's why I think it's funny. People are getting what they wanted. 

Based on your scenario btw, I would follow through with a search/ arrest 'cus drugs bring bad juju to a neighborhood.

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Another example of the "catch and release" syndrome that I've described several times. Our justice system exists for one reason and one reason only: To feed and perpetuate itself. Of course there are many outstanding cops, judges, etc. but in aggregate they are in business for themselves.

That's why if you or I get arrested for some NJ fantasy crime they throw the book at us because they know we won't likely ever be in contact with the law again. When career criminals get caught they're released with full knowledge that they will soon be in the system again. Everyone from prosecutors to judges, defense attorneys, all manner of LEOs, court officers, companies that provide jail uniforms and meals, wardens, stenographers, secretaries, right down to the guy shining shoes in the courthouse lobby -- everybody profits from the system as it is. The more crime that exists the more they make, the higher their pensions, the more of them they can hire.

This is a good reason to invest in inexpensive, reliable, easily stashed handguns if your circumstances permit it. At least one for every floor of your dwelling. 

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23 minutes ago, Newtonian said:

Another example of the "catch and release" syndrome that I've described several times. Our justice system exists for one reason and one reason only: To feed and perpetuate itself. Of course there are many outstanding cops, judges, etc. but in aggregate they are in business for themselves.

That's why if you or I get arrested for some NJ fantasy crime they throw the book at us because they know we won't likely ever be in contact with the law again. When career criminals get caught they're released with full knowledge that they will soon be in the system again. Everyone from prosecutors to judges, defense attorneys, all manner of LEOs, court officers, companies that provide jail uniforms and meals, wardens, stenographers, secretaries, right down to the guy shining shoes in the courthouse lobby -- everybody profits from the system as it is. The more crime that exists the more they make, the higher their pensions, the more of them they can hire.

This is a good reason to invest in inexpensive, reliable, easily stashed handguns if your circumstances permit it. At least one for every floor of your dwelling. 

I didn't know the Judicial system works on commission?

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So let me get this straight...if you are a minor you won't be charged as an adult for violent crimes so do something really bad and you walk, or at the best serve some minimal amount if time behind bars.

If you are an adult you won't have to make bail and will be released based on some mythical algorithm, so you too are out on the street.

And now we can keep end stage heroin addicts alive in perpetuity through artificial means such as Narcan...

This should end well!

 

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On 5/19/2017 at 10:45 AM, Mrs. Peel said:

I'm shocked... and yet I'm not! This is part of the larger trend - an inordinate concern placed on avoiding discrimination against criminals (because they tend to also be disproportionately black, poor, etc. - cue the violin music). That was a movement in part led by our own former President - who pardoned a record number of felons.

The problem with that theory is... as crime studies repeatedly reveal, and as that report rightly shows by focusing on that grieving mom... their crime victims also tend to be disproportionately poor people of color.  So, where's the concern for those folks - the actual victims?

Kudos to this station for doing the report. Real investigative journalism. Wow! I hope it gets some traction before more bodies pile up.

(And on a side note... honestly, I see crap like that and I think, "Yeah, why wouldn't I buy a HD gun and have a tough attitude about using it?" When criminals don't fear the law, that's a dangerous situation for the rest of us.)

I think you are wrong. That's just what they dress it up as to seem appealing.

They want crIminals to vote. People won't go for it so they make it harder to officials also the criminal label on them.

They also try to enact all sorts of things by telling you that "the most vulnerable" are in danger. Policies like this increase that danger to make more compelling the position from which they appeal for more power. They also tell you they and their proposed legislation is the only thing standing between you and these dangerous people. So they want more dangerous ones on the lose to give that claim credibility.

It isn't a mistake that damn near every time you see a politician trying to derive power and influence by protecting a group from a situation, you will find their successful actions systemically sustain our exacerbate that problem.

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1 hour ago, raz-0 said:

I think you are wrong. That's just what they dress it up as to seem appealing.

They want crIminals to vote. People won't go for it so they make it harder to officials also the criminal label on them.

They also try to enact all sorts of things by telling you that "the most vulnerable" are in danger. Policies like this increase that danger to make more compelling the position from which they appeal for more power. They also tell you they and their proposed legislation is the only thing standing between you and these dangerous people. So they want more dangerous ones on the lose to give that claim credibility.

It isn't a mistake that damn near every time you see a politician trying to derive power and influence by protecting a group from a situation, you will find their successful actions systemically sustain our exacerbate that problem.

Your cynicism is duly noted. That's not a criticism either. It may be warranted. Somehow I think your statement ties in to the theory that term limits across the board would be a good thing. Too little serving and too much empire-building is going on within our political parties.

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2 hours ago, medic2264 said:
2 hours ago, Newtonian said:

Another example of the "catch and release" syndrome that I've described several times. Our justice system exists for one reason and one reason only: To feed and perpetuate itself. Of course there are many outstanding cops, judges, etc. but in aggregate they are in business for themselves.

How are cops, judges, etc in business for themselves?  If cops were paid on a commission basis for the number of arrests made or tickets written, there would be a heck of a lot more people sitting in court.  Just the same could be said for judges and guilty verdicts.

That's why if you or I get arrested for some NJ fantasy crime they throw the book at us because they know we won't likely ever be in contact with the law again.

What is a "NJ fantasy crime" I could not find the statute for that?  Individuals get charged with the crime , disorderly persons offense or petty disorderly persons offense they committed according to statute.  In the end it comes down to plea bargaining between the defense and prosecution.  Charges get downgraded, merged, and or dismissed.  It doesn't mean they were not committed, its just how things are brought to a conclusion.

How do "they" know they will not have another contact with "them"?

When career criminals get caught they're released with full knowledge that they will soon be in the system again.

I'm curious to your insight into that matter.  True under the new bail reform criminals are quite happy they are getting released right away or only spending up to 48 hours incarcerated in county.

Everyone from prosecutors to judges, defense attorneys, all manner of LEOs, court officers, companies that provide jail uniforms and meals, wardens, stenographers, secretaries, right down to the guy shining shoes in the courthouse lobby -- everybody profits from the system as it is. The more crime that exists the more they make, the higher their pensions, the more of them they can hire.

Most if not all the people you mentioned in your statement are salaried and overtime (if they get overtime) is not factored into their pension.  Public Defenders, Prosecutors, and Judges are not paid by the number of cases they have on their docket.  Most have an enormous case load and get paid the same if they are carrying 100 cases or 200 cases.  The people that are making the money are the private defense attorneys (that's if their client pays them), they are paid per case and on its complexity.

This is a good reason to invest in inexpensive, reliable, easily stashed handguns if your circumstances permit it. At least one for every floor of your dwelling. 

 

 

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1 hour ago, medic2264 said:

 

This is called social psychology. It's the reason almost all organisms, including groups of humans, work together without collusion or agreement towards their mutual self-interest. Ants, lions, chimps, lawyers, etc. That most (except for the aforementioned shoe shine guy) are salaried is irrelevant. Because more crime, more arrests, more processing equals more work equals more cops, more stenos, more judges, more court time. It's an enterprise except that like few others it can actually create more business for itself out of thin air.

For example by not putting violent criminals away for a long time, by eliminating cash bail, while at the same time sentencing an out of state gun owner to 5-10 years. BTW that's an example of a "Jersey" law -- hard time for acts that have no legal consequence anywhere else.

So is your wife a cop, lawyer, what? Or are you the shoe shine guy at the Jersey City courthouse?

 

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