M1 Carbine Question

[SJG 253]

Classic Arms has them on sale. I have no clue if they are marked M1 Carbine, if they do not say M1 Carbine on them, what do you think?

[PK90 3,570]

No go.

Carry on.

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[SJG 253]

Hypo: Assume it does not say M! etc on it and assume that when shipped to the FFL or as modified by the FFL the magazine is fixed and cannot be removed and can be fed with ammo without removing it from the rifle.

[DeletePLS 178]

still no go 

[SJG 253]

Not sure I agree. If made as described it is not an M1

[DeletePLS 178]

Just now, SJG said:

Not sure I agree. If made as described it is not an M1

the 22lr and 9mm blowback action weren't M1s either, but those aren't legal either.  good luck let us all know when you get your m1 carbine in NJ lol.

 

[Smokin .50 1,907]

10 hours ago, SJG said:

Not sure I agree. If made as described it is not an M1

Whether or not you agree is of little importance.  Demanding to have your way AFTER one of the forum's esteemed FFL's told you "NO-Go" is, at best, immature.  Perhaps you might wanna buy the real thing and play with it in Free Amerikka?  If so, contact Gunsitters in Easton, PA and tell Dave Kotz I told ya to call  . http://www.gunsitters.com/pennsylvania.html .

Rosey

[SJG 253]

Although you may not realize it, your response is, in part, diplomatically inappropriate as is your characterization that I am demanding to have my way.  which is an incorrect assumption on your part. I do not question your characterization of PK90 as an esteemed FFL, although I would put it slightly differently: " experienced" but that is not really the issue. Initially, I asked for an opinion and received one which I accept. I then asked a hypothetical question to further explore the issue which  I was thinking about as lawyers sometimes do. Perhaps you should read what you write before you click the send button which is an issue with email and text transmission. I would not respond to another forum members post, in part in a nasty manner even if I disagreed with a position they took on an issue. Enough said. 

[Smokin .50 1,907]

Didn't mean to ruffle your feathers, so sorry if I did.  Never knowing whom is on the other end of a post means potential illegal activities (purchase, transportation or possession of assault weapons) need halted right away, often w/o the necessary time to type War & Peace (such as the actual written law about the M-1 Carbine).  So please take this as an apology  .

P.S.:  My Dad taught me how to shoot his prior to Florio's Ban, so I'd love to still have it  

[GRIZ 3,369]

NJ AW law says "M1 carbine type".  Says nothing about caliber.  If it looks like and pretty much functions like a M1 carbine it's going to be illegal.

Determination of "type" is pretty much to the digression of the NJAG.

[dajonga 396]

Shooters is selling the 10/22 that looks like the M1 carbine. Another FFL told me this very gun is a nogo in NJ and that he could not get it for me.

Thoughts?

I really wanted the 9mm M1 carbine rifle that took Beretta 92 mags.

 

 

[PK90 3,570]

31 minutes ago, dajonga said:

Shooters is selling the 10/22 that looks like the M1 carbine. Another FFL told me this very gun is a nogo in NJ and that he could not get it for me.

Thoughts?

I really wanted the 9mm M1 carbine rifle that took Beretta 92 mags.

Ask those who would matter >

Quote

NJSP Firearms Investigation Unit

P.O. Box 7068
West Trenton, New Jersey 08628-0068
609-882-2000 Extension 2290 (Phone) 
609-406-9826 Fax

 

[JT Custom Guns 957]

1 hour ago, dajonga said:

Shooters is selling the 10/22 that looks like the M1 carbine. Another FFL told me this very gun is a nogo in NJ and that he could not get it for me.

Thoughts?

I really wanted the 9mm M1 carbine rifle that took Beretta 92 mags.

 

 

I also Sell the New Ruger 10/22 M1 Tribute which is a 10/22 rifle in an M1 Stock

The gun (The Ruger) is 100% legal in NJ because it is not stamped M1 / M1 Carbine

on the frame.

[GRIZ 3,369]

50 minutes ago, JT Custom Guns said:

I also Sell the New Ruger 10/22 M1 Tribute which is a 10/22 rifle in an M1 Stock

The gun (The Ruger) is 100% legal in NJ because it is not stamped M1 / M1 Carbine

on the frame.

Plus the action, although semi, is not the same as a M1 Carbine.

[Smokin .50 1,907]

So Griz correct me if I'm wrong:

A semi-auto center fire that appears to look & function substantially similar to a Plainfield Carbine (even one with a permanent magazine) could be classified by the whim of a politician to be an assault weapon?  And he/she could do so whether or not the receiver is stamped "M-1 Carbine"?  TIA!

[PK90 3,570]

IMO, the 10/22 is legal.

 

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[GRIZ 3,369]

35 minutes ago, Smokin .50 said:

So Griz correct me if I'm wrong:

A semi-auto center fire that appears to look & function substantially similar to a Plainfield Carbine (even one with a permanent magazine) could be classified by the whim of a politician to be an assault weapon?  And he/she could do so whether or not the receiver is stamped "M-1 Carbine"?  TIA!

Pretty much I guess.

If the gun were designed with a permanent magazine (like a SKS) it MIGHT fly in NJ.  Remember, the "M1 Carbine Type" is banned by name not by features.  For example if you have a lower marked AR15 you're in violation even if it doesn't have any evil features. You can't modify a firearm banned by name to make it legal.  Add to that I the M1 carbine is one of the few guns listed by "type". 

I would also guess the AG's decision is based on what he or she can get a prosecution.  Wasn't there a guy in Monmouth Co who was convicted of poss of AW because he had a Marlin 60 that held 17 rds in the tube magazine?

Not saying I agree with it at all, just saying that's the way it is.

[PK90 3,570]

The "Estrella Ordnance AR-15" is NJ legal. Only the "Colt AR-15" is not.

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[SJG 253]

Question is the action on a Ruger Mini 14 any different than an M1 Carbine, putting aside for the minute that if the receiver says M1 it is a no go and the caliber is different

[JT Custom Guns 957]

The M1 carbine is banned in NJ by name, not the action

Again - as long as the gun doesn't say "M1 Carbine" or "M1" and actually be a carbine

there is no problem..................

[Smokin .50 1,907]

48 minutes ago, GRIZ said:

Pretty much I guess.

If the gun were designed with a permanent magazine (like a SKS) it MIGHT fly in NJ.  Remember, the "M1 Carbine Type" is banned by name not by features.  For example if you have a lower marked AR15 you're in violation even if it doesn't have any evil features. You can't modify a firearm banned by name to make it legal.  Add to that I the M1 carbine is one of the few guns listed by "type". 

I would also guess the AG's decision is based on what he or she can get a prosecution.  Wasn't there a guy in Monmouth Co who was convicted of poss of AW because he had a Marlin 60 that held 17 rds in the tube magazine?

Not saying I agree with it at all, just saying that's the way it is.

Yes, here's the story as best as I can recall it:

He & his wife of nearly 50 years were divorcing.  They got into a mouth battle & she felt threatened so she called the Cops.  As is typical for a NJ domestic squabble, responding officers always inquire if there's any firearms in the dwelling.  They both said yes.  Then the cops ripped the house apart searching.  The guy had all 3 platforms in his extensive collection, which was cataloged & taken into custody as SOP.  Under the couple's bed, still in its' original box & packing grease, UNFIRED & forgotten about, sat a 17-shot Marlin Model 60 semi-auto .22 LR the guy paid less than $50 bucks for decades previously.  On went the cuffs.  He became the "Sacrificial Lamb" needed to keep the general public (and especially naive gun owners) scared shitless!  

[Purple Patrick 638]

The M1 carbine is banned in NJ by name, no the action
Again - as long as the gun doesn't say "M1 Carbine" or "M1" and actually be a carbine
there is no problem..................

This is what I thought. The posts earlier in the thread seem to contradict this

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[Smokin .50 1,907]

7 minutes ago, Purple Patrick said:

 

This is what I thought. The posts earlier in the thread seem to contradict this

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It's banned by both name and "TYPE".  Re-read what Griz had confirmed to me.  The actual wording in the law also says "TYPE", so I would exercise caution in dealing with anything that is "substantially similar"

[Purple Patrick 638]

Gotcha. I haven't touched either even tho I would love to shoot a pre ban one

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[DeletePLS 178]

44 minutes ago, JT Custom Guns said:

The M1 carbine is banned in NJ by name, no the action

Again - as long as the gun doesn't say "M1 Carbine" or "M1" and actually be a carbine

there is no problem..................

if thats true, then get a iver johnson m1 carbine not all of them are marked m1 carbine or m1 on the receiver.

[JT Custom Guns 957]

This is legal - How many do you want?

LOL

[Maksim 1,504]

In Borat Voice....

"Very Nice.... How Much?"

[JT Custom Guns 957]

$380.00

[DeletePLS 178]

I love that jack turns this discussion into a sales pitch, quite the business man  if i didn't a 10/22 that i loved already i would get me one of those.

 

[ChrisJM981 924]

From the singular conviction that I could find for possession of an M1 Carbine the prosecution read off what was stamped on the receiver as evidence that the firearm in question was indeed an M1 Carbine. It was actually marked US Cabine 30 CAL M1. Depending on the manufacturer the markings may vary, but most include M1. There are a few carbine rifles that do not have M1 stamped on the receiver. I do plan on contacting the firearms division by either mail or email so that I can get a written response. I believe that the carbine rifles marked other than M1 would be subject to the substantially identical test of the NJ AWB. If they have different names and do not contain two evil features, then the rifles *should* be legal.