Is a non-complaint upper legal to possess without a lower?

[Candyman87 10]

Pennsylvania resident here. Work in New Jersey. FFL in Easton, PA near Easton Fish & Game.

Got a great deal on an AR upper and lower from Palmetto State Armory this weekend. And a PSAK-47.

Here's the catch... they're shipping the upper to my house in PA. It is not NJ compliant and I have no intention of making it so.

(I already have a NJ compliant AR for when I do need to cross the border. I'd like to leave the remaining AR's fully featured.)

I'd like to toss my upper in the car, and stop by my FFL after work to pick up the firearms, so I can head to EFGA and zero both rifles.

At no point will I have a firearm in my car in New Jersey. Just an upper with a scary bayonet lug, evil threaded barrel, and satanic flash hider.

Is this legal? (I'm just spitballing here and will contact NJSP later in the week) Just wondering if anyone has had this conversation before.

[BobA 1,235]

I'll be interested in seeing the answer to this for similar reasons. If you call them please post what they tell you.  Thanks.

[matty 810]

Just do it and STFU bout it

Why in the NAME OF GOD would you call the NJSP about such a trivial matter as this?  What if they ask you to stop by soi they could check it out? Nothing good will come of it. 

 

[Walt of Destiny 412]

Jesus Christ. They must laugh at our dysfunctional lot.

3 rules.

1. Use your best judgement
2. Don't be an asshole
3. Shut the fuck up

I don't understand the whole let me call/email/query whomever thing.

We are our own worst enemy.


Taking a blasé security attitude by using Tapatalk Pro

[Ray Ray 3,566]

Define "non compliant

Is the barrel shorter than 14.5 inches?

 

[JohnnyB 4,325]

There is no law against having a non compliant upper in the PRNJ as long as you do NOT posses a lower or another

complete AR that you could use to make a complete rifle.  You can have all the non compliant parts you want in NJ, Just don't have ALL the parts to make a non compliant rifle. (Called "Constructive intent")

[Zeke 5,504]

Water heating slowly 

[Rob0115 1,105]

Pick up your upper throw it in a bag in your trunk and head home.  Don't pick up the PSAK.  Tell me the FFL and I'll get it for you.

 

For the the love of god don't call the NJSP. How will that help?   

[My1stGlock 144]

2 hours ago, Ray Ray said:

Define "non compliant

Is the barrel shorter than 14.5 inches?

 

Per OP.

8 hours ago, Candyman87 said:

Just an upper with a scary bayonet lug, evil threaded barrel, and satanic flash hider.

 

[Candyman87 10]

2 hours ago, Ray Ray said:

Define "non compliant

Is the barrel shorter than 14.5 inches?

 

16" AR-15 upper with bayonet lug, threaded barrel, and flash hider.

2 hours ago, JohnnyB said:

There is no law against having a non compliant upper in the PRNJ as long as you do NOT posses a lower or another

complete AR that you could use to make a complete rifle.  You can have all the non compliant parts you want in NJ, Just don't have ALL the parts to make a non compliant rifle. (Called "Constructive intent")

This is my thought as well... however, a cop having a bad day could interpret this the wrong way, something I'd much rather avoid. 

2 hours ago, JohnnyB said:

There is no law against having a non compliant upper in the PRNJ as long as you do NOT posses a lower or another

complete AR that you could use to make a complete rifle.  You can have all the non compliant parts you want in NJ, Just don't have ALL the parts to make a non compliant rifle. (Called "Constructive intent")

I will not have the lower until I'm back in PA. That is why I figured I was in the clear.

[JohnnyB 4,325]

You are GTG! NJ law is clear on this one so no need...EVER....to call the NJSP!

[vladtepes 1,060]

10 minutes ago, JohnnyB said:

You are GTG! NJ law is clear on this one so no need...EVER....to call the NJSP!

I agree... there is no confusion on this at all.. 

 

its not an assault weapon.. 

you do not possess the parts to assemble an assault weapon.. 

 

so good to go.. no confusion.. 

[The_Matrix 105]

4 hours ago, matty said:

Just do it and STFU bout it

Why in the NAME OF GOD would you call the NJSP about such a trivial matter as this?  What if they ask you to stop by soi they could check it out? Nothing good will come of it. 

 

+1  

[Ray Ray 3,566]

4 hours ago, Walt of Destiny said:

Jesus Christ. They must laugh at our dysfunctional lot.

3 rules.

1. Use your best judgement
2. Don't be an asshole
3. Shut the fuck up

I don't understand the whole let me call/email/query whomever thing.

We are our own worst enemy.
 

This

[Shane45 807]

4 hours ago, JohnnyB said:

There is no law against having a non compliant upper in the PRNJ as long as you do NOT posses a lower or another

complete AR that you could use to make a complete rifle.  You can have all the non compliant parts you want in NJ, Just don't have ALL the parts to make a non compliant rifle. (Called "Constructive intent")

I agree with most of what your saying. However, in my opinion its not constructive intent, its possession. Constructive intent, the way I read the law, would be if the if it could be proven that you had, say the upper, stashed at a buddies house and you had access to it. Again, this is just my interpretation.

[JohnnyB 4,325]

9 minutes ago, Shane45 said:

I agree with most of what your saying. However, in my opinion its not constructive intent, its possession. Constructive intent, the way I read the law, would be if the if it could be proven that you had, say the upper, stashed at a buddies house and you had access to it. Again, this is just my interpretation.

The OP is not a resident of NJ. The OP will not have access to both the upper and any lower while here in the PRNJ.Since the lower is the rifle, it would be illegal to have it at a buddies house as it would be considered an illegal transfer. Your buddy can have as many uppers as he wants in his possession as long as there is no lower there. Constructive intent is when one person "possesses"  all of the parts to make a whole rifle in one location.

Don't make the mistake of reading more into this. The statutes are clear on this one.

[Shane45 807]

Residency aside, yes I think they are pretty clear. Meet the definition, catch a charge for possession.

N.J.A.C. 13:54-1.2 Definitions:

"Assault firearms" means:

5. A part or combination of parts designed or intended to convert a firearm into an assault firearm,

or any combination of parts from which an assault firearm may be readily assembled if those parts

are in the possession or under the control of the same person.

 

Also noteworthy:

Possession may also be joint, State v. McCoy, supra, 116 N.J. at 299-300; State v. Brown, supra, 80 N.J. at 597-98, so that two or more persons jointly may possess the same object, State v. Mendez, 175 N.J. 201, 212 (2002), when they "share actual or constructive knowing possession of" that object. State v. Morrison, supra, 188 N.J. at 14-15 (quoting Model Jury Charges (Criminal) Possession (Apr. 18, 2005)).

[45Doll 5,877]

I crossed this bridge a while ago. Since I have NJ compliant ARs in my NJ house, I can't legally possess any non-compliant upper here. That upper could slide onto any of my otherwise compliant AR lowers.

So my non-compliant uppers are not in this state. Nor are my non-compliant lowers with (GASP!) adjustable stocks.

[Ray Ray 3,566]

On 5/28/2017 at 11:02 PM, Shane45 said:

I agree with most of what your saying. However, in my opinion its not constructive intent, its possession. Constructive intent, the way I read the law, would be if the if it could be proven that you had, say the upper, stashed at a buddies house and you had access to it. Again, this is just my interpretation.

The key words you used:

"In my opinion", "The way I read the law", "Just my interpretation".

When I see that, it ruins the facts.  No offense @Shane45

[Shane45 807]

Yeah comes with not actually being a lawyer

[remixer 1,645]

IMO, If you only have the upper in the car then i see no issue. 

If you had the upper in the car and happen to have a completed lower in the same car it might be "intent"

but as for the upper alone no issues.... and for the love of god.. don't call the NJSP for such matters.

[remixer 1,645]

The problem is a lot of  NJ Gun law is Opinion since there are not that many cases on file.

Sometimes its just best to be cautious but not overly tinfoil hat cautious.

[Ray Ray 3,566]

On 5/28/2017 at 6:17 PM, Walt of Destiny said:

1. Use your best judgement
2. Don't be an asshole
3. Shut the fuck up

Cut, copy and paste this all over this forum. 

[Old School 611]

12 minutes ago, Ray Ray said:

Cut, copy and paste this all over this forum. 

I'm proud of the maturity and wisdom you have gained, puppy!