Sig P220 vs 1911

[45Doll 5,873]

When I attended the Sig Armorer's class in NH my instructor was a long time Sig guy with a lot of experience who also did a lot of training. He brought the P220 SAO to my attention. That was his preference to shoot in matches rather than a 1911. It was just one man's opinion. I have one, and it's pretty damn good.

As for me... 1911 or P220? Well, that's one reason why I have two hands.

[raz-0 1,259]

My opinion is that SIGs fit my hand better than a single stack 1911 and they shoot and handle well. But most of what they have going for them I can find in other guns for cheaper.

Sigs process are way to high for their qc these days. And since they aren't a broadly supported platform like a 1911, ar, flock, or 10/22, I can't go to anyone but SIG to fix what SIG doesn't want to do right in the first place.

That list of guns above provide a level of enjoyment I don't get from the other guns I own.

[Slab Sides 20]

1 hour ago, raz-0 said:

My opinion is that SIGs fit my hand better than a single stack 1911 and they shoot and handle well. But most of what they have going for them I can find in other guns for cheaper.

Sigs process are way to high for their qc these days. And since they aren't a broadly supported platform like a 1911, ar, flock, or 10/22, I can't go to anyone but SIG to fix what SIG doesn't want to do right in the first place.

That list of guns above provide a level of enjoyment I don't get from the other guns I own.
 

What??

Can you elaborate on what Sigs have that cheaper brands have?  There's a sh** ton more than a decocker.

[tony357 386]

22 hours ago, Maksim said:

USPSA program?!

yes if you were member uspsa they had program where guns were 50% off had to be on the list. you purchased direct from remington and shipped to your ffl.

[Maksim 1,504]

26 minutes ago, tony357 said:

yes if you were member uspsa they had program where guns were 50% off had to be on the list. you purchased direct from remington and shipped to your ffl.

wow, can't believe i missed it.  Still going on by any chance? 

[raz-0 1,259]

1 hour ago, Slab Sides said:

What??

Can you elaborate on what Sigs have that cheaper brands have?  There's a sh** ton more than a decocker.

General ergonomics. Trigger quality. Simple to field strip. Level of accuracy. level of quality control. Most of what is going for it can be found elsewhere. If it was a $500 gun it'd be awesome. They seem to be a tad cheaper now at ~$800 than last time I had reason to look. They were around $1000 then.  

There really isn't a shit ton more to it than being a semi automatic pistol.

[Maksim 1,504]

https://www.uspsa.org/ROC.php

Darn, missed it again.

[Screwball 483]

Personally, I like SIG classic pistols in double stack frames over a single stack. My P228 is never being sold, as it is a beautiful pistol. Not a fan of the SAO versions, either.

Between the P220 and the 1911... 1911. I'm not a fan of SIG pricing, and really opposed to them due to it. My P228 is more of a collectible in my eyes, but my P938 SAS was picked up because there wasn't a similar pistol out there at the time I bought it. Shy of that, not spending $1,000+ on a SIG. Similar CZs and Berettas go for noticeably less.

My SR1911 was under $700, and I can swap stuff out over time to get it where I want it (all MIM is going for stainless... for looks; also getting a spur hammer). I think once I'm done changing it up, I'll have a gun exactly how I want for about what the SIG MSRPs for.

I view a 1911 as a AR... you can customize them exactly how you want because of the aftermarket. Yes, SIG has an aftermarket, but it is across how many different models? P220, P226, P228/229... most not compatible with one another. Add in the P320, and you are going to have more people building parts for those over the classic line. Unless you truly love the SIG controls (decocking lever), I think a 1911 is the better choice. Everyone should have at least one 1911... and I'm not even a huge fan of them. I got my Ruger pretty much just to get a decent and affordable 1911 in my collection.

[the_stranger 13]

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[Maksim 1,504]

19 hours ago, Screwball said:

Personally, I like SIG classic pistols in double stack frames over a single stack. My P228 is never being sold, as it is a beautiful pistol. Not a fan of the SAO versions, either.

Between the P220 and the 1911... 1911. I'm not a fan of SIG pricing, and really opposed to them due to it. My P228 is more of a collectible in my eyes, but my P938 SAS was picked up because there wasn't a similar pistol out there at the time I bought it. Shy of that, not spending $1,000+ on a SIG. Similar CZs and Berettas go for noticeably less.

My SR1911 was under $700, and I can swap stuff out over time to get it where I want it (all MIM is going for stainless... for looks; also getting a spur hammer). I think once I'm done changing it up, I'll have a gun exactly how I want for about what the SIG MSRPs for.

I view a 1911 as a AR... you can customize them exactly how you want because of the aftermarket. Yes, SIG has an aftermarket, but it is across how many different models? P220, P226, P228/229... most not compatible with one another. Add in the P320, and you are going to have more people building parts for those over the classic line. Unless you truly love the SIG controls (decocking lever), I think a 1911 is the better choice. Everyone should have at least one 1911... and I'm not even a huge fan of them. I got my Ruger pretty much just to get a decent and affordable 1911 in my collection.

... and that's the thing.

I had a Sig 226 USPSA edition (fiber optic front, SRT trigger, USPSA logo), and I liked it.  Sold it..

I now have a 229 in 357 Sig.

While I do like both guns, they do have that Sig magic to them... (at least the older ones do).  I would say a bit more than even HK.

While neither the HK P30L or the Sig 226 USPSA were "great" guns.... they were just good enough and I do miss them both.

The Sigs suffer from being a little tooo damn thick in the grips, in large part due to the decocker placement, e2 helped, but not perfect.  They are quite top heavy, slide wise.  I am not a fan of the grip angle.... too upright. The trigger, while the SRT is a great step up.... it still is just "eh" by good trigger standards... ie vs other DA/SA like CZ 75, and well, it is not a sweet SA 1911.  YET.... I dug it. lol.

Same with the HK P30L.  Stupid reliable, but that damn trigger reset and takeup was just toooooooooooooooooooooooo long.  Not the most accurate gun, but it was not designed to be, but stupid reliable.  Perfect home defense gun or for when the zombies come. 

While I owned both of them.... they rarely got shot, much like the 229 today.... but would not sell it now anyway.

So same with the 220.  yes it is reliable, Sig quality, blah blah blah.... but it's still a Sig and I would likely not have it in the regular gun rotation. 

[Screwball 483]

Same with the HK P30L.  Stupid reliable, but that damn trigger reset and takeup was just toooooooooooooooooooooooo long.  Not the most accurate gun, but it was not designed to be, but stupid reliable.  Perfect home defense gun or for when the zombies come.

Funny you mention H&K...

I'm currently looking at the Border Patrol... and likely (if all goes well) considering Maine as future employment. They issue the H&K P2000 (read that there is a consideration for a move to the P320), but have other firearms approved for carry. My father has a USP .40 that I converted for him from DAO to LEM... and I really do like that trigger. I wish they allowed a similar P30L, as I prefer longer slides, but don't mind the P2000 (guess they like the USP Compact magazine, since both guns use them).

I grew up on DA/SA. My first real handgun shooting was on a S&W 686, then my dad switched his 629-1 with me (he gave it to me when I got out of college). I used to shoot a Walther P38, then bought a Beretta 92 Brigadier Inox as my first pistol. That was actually the first time I really was taken back by SIG, being I saw a beat up P226 that was rebuilt (springs and a once over... not refinishing) priced the same as a new Beretta 92FS. I put a few more dollars in for my gun over the basic Beretta, but that really stuck with me.

The trigger on my P228 is very easy to connect with, but if the current P226/P229/whatever other classic model are similar, I really don't feel the difference in price is justified. Even H&K... where does that extra $100s go? My CZ, or any of my Berettas (have the 92, 96 conversion slide, and had two PX4s... sold the .45, but kept the 9mm), are reliable enough to put my life on them. If you get a pistol from a reputable company, it likely will work... and if not, you send it back and they should get it going. When a gun has an aspect that you want, the LEM trigger for example, then I do see spending a little more for it. And touching on that, LEM way over DAK. [emoji41]

While I could say the same thing about people that get high end 1911s over my Ruger, there is an argument that can be used with those... and even the SIGs. The buyer just likes them. The SIG has the manual of arms that really makes it apparent. For higher end 1911s, if someone wants to pay $4,000+ for a Nighthawk... it is something they feel that price is justified. I'm just not seeing it the same way.

[JC_68Westy 1,024]

1 hour ago, Screwball said:

 

Funny you mention H&K...

I'm currently looking at the Border Patrol... and likely (if all goes well) considering Maine as future employment. They issue the H&K P2000 (read that there is a consideration for a move to the P320), but have other firearms approved for carry. My father has a USP .40 that I converted for him from DAO to LEM... and I really do like that trigger. I wish they allowed a similar P30L, as I prefer longer slides, but don't mind the P2000 (guess they like the USP Compact magazine, since both guns use them).

I grew up on DA/SA. My first real handgun shooting was on a S&W 686, then my dad switched his 629-1 with me (he gave it to me when I got out of college). I used to shoot a Walther P38, then bought a Beretta 92 Brigadier Inox as my first pistol. That was actually the first time I really was taken back by SIG, being I saw a beat up P226 that was rebuilt (springs and a once over... not refinishing) priced the same as a new Beretta 92FS. I put a few more dollars in for my gun over the basic Beretta, but that really stuck with me.

The trigger on my P228 is very easy to connect with, but if the current P226/P229/whatever other classic model are similar, I really don't feel the difference in price is justified. Even H&K... where does that extra $100s go? My CZ, or any of my Berettas (have the 92, 96 conversion slide, and had two PX4s... sold the .45, but kept the 9mm), are reliable enough to put my life on them. If you get a pistol from a reputable company, it likely will work... and if not, you send it back and they should get it going. When a gun has an aspect that you want, the LEM trigger for example, then I do see spending a little more for it. And touching on that, LEM way over DAK.

While I could say the same thing about people that get high end 1911s over my Ruger, there is an argument that can be used with those... and even the SIGs. The buyer just likes them. The SIG has the manual of arms that really makes it apparent. For higher end 1911s, if someone wants to pay $4,000+ for a Nighthawk... it is something they feel that price is justified. I'm just not seeing it the same way.

 

I have worked with CBP marine guys that used the Glock 23.  They said the H&K corroded in the salt water environment.  I was used to seeing the H&K, but it did surprise me to see Glock.  Not sure if this is still the case.

[Maksim 1,504]

Just now, JC_68Westy said:

I have worked with CBP marine guys that used the Glock 23.  They said the H&K corroded in the salt water environment.  I was used to seeing the H&K, but it did surprise me to see Glock.  Not sure if this is still the case.

If I am not mistaken, BP/CBP were able to go with Glock 23 instead of HK a bit ago. 

 

[JC_68Westy 1,024]

Just now, Maksim said:

If I am not mistaken, BP/CBP were able to go with Glock 23 instead of HK a bit ago. 

 

I have been out of the game for a while.  It was at least 6 or 7 yrs ago when I saw the Glock.  They said the H&K was horrible in a salt environment.

[Screwball 483]

I have been out of the game for a while.  It was at least 6 or 7 yrs ago when I saw the Glock.  They said the H&K was horrible in a salt environment.

May be the case...

I'll have to talk to my two cousins, who were in there years back. One got out and became a teacher, other moved to DEA. I'm like 80% sure they were issued the P2000 (could have been the USP Compact, but sort of doubt it). Glock is big for putting out info when a new agency approves their pistols, and haven't seen anything to that effect.

I know ICE did the P229s with the DAK triggers. Don't know if they stuck with them, went to something else, or are looking... but it is a job I'm really not as interested in (rather be at the border/port of entry). It's bad, but there are actually jobs I won't look into due to knowing what they carry. I doubt I could survive in Florida with their income (my brother-in-law was a DOT Trooper, which was absorbed into their Highway Patrol... and he moved back up here due to the income levels), but wouldn't even look because of the .45 GAP. Same with South Carolina Highway Patrol. North Carolina was on my interest list. If I'm going to be issued a sidearm, I want to be confident with it. It's another checklist when I get to something I'm showing interest with... not as important as other things (location, cost of living, gun rights of the state, etc), but it is considered.

Was looking at the CBP website, as I was looking into them for some time (seeing what the positions I was applying for actually did). The information for BORTAC had a few PDFs up with them using H&Ks. Could be an old photo, but dates I saw of the documentation were 2014. I do know there is an approved list, so is Glock on it? No idea... but would love to see it for poops and giggles.

Personally, I'm not a fan of the Glock 23. Compacts are nice (my 30S is identical in size, just .45), but rather a full size pistol. They do work, though.

Guess we got a little off topic from P220 verses 1911. [emoji6]

The P220 did interest me when the 10mm came out... but have a S&W 1006. If they did a P227, then I might consider blowing money on that... if SIG increases the capacity over the .45. Should be able to do more than 10/14 with 10mm rounds in that magazine.

[JC_68Westy 1,024]

9 hours ago, Screwball said:

 

May be the case...

I'll have to talk to my two cousins, who were in there years back. One got out and became a teacher, other moved to DEA. I'm like 80% sure they were issued the P2000 (could have been the USP Compact, but sort of doubt it). Glock is big for putting out info when a new agency approves their pistols, and haven't seen anything to that effect.

I know ICE did the P229s with the DAK triggers. Don't know if they stuck with them, went to something else, or are looking... but it is a job I'm really not as interested in (rather be at the border/port of entry). It's bad, but there are actually jobs I won't look into due to knowing what they carry. I doubt I could survive in Florida with their income (my brother-in-law was a DOT Trooper, which was absorbed into their Highway Patrol... and he moved back up here due to the income levels), but wouldn't even look because of the .45 GAP. Same with South Carolina Highway Patrol. North Carolina was on my interest list. If I'm going to be issued a sidearm, I want to be confident with it. It's another checklist when I get to something I'm showing interest with... not as important as other things (location, cost of living, gun rights of the state, etc), but it is considered.

Was looking at the CBP website, as I was looking into them for some time (seeing what the positions I was applying for actually did). The information for BORTAC had a few PDFs up with them using H&Ks. Could be an old photo, but dates I saw of the documentation were 2014. I do know there is an approved list, so is Glock on it? No idea... but would love to see it for poops and giggles.

Personally, I'm not a fan of the Glock 23. Compacts are nice (my 30S is identical in size, just .45), but rather a full size pistol. They do work, though.

Guess we got a little off topic from P220 verses 1911.

The P220 did interest me when the 10mm came out... but have a S&W 1006. If they did a P227, then I might consider blowing money on that... if SIG increases the capacity over the .45. Should be able to do more than 10/14 with 10mm rounds in that magazine.

 

I wouldn't get over being concerned about what an agency carries.  These things change, sometimes quicker than you think.  I think it is more important to consider things like pay, upward mobility, variety of duties, etc.

[Screwball 483]

I would get over being concerned about what an agency carries.  These things change, sometimes quicker than you think.  I think it is more important to consider things like pay, upward mobility, variety of duties, etc.

 

Reread what I wrote... clearly pointed that out at the end of the second major paragraph. Even gave the example about Florida, stating that I could not survive down there with their salary. Yes, that is one of the things I'm looking at, and worked into that "etc" I put in.

 

I got a call from the Port Authority, from an application I put in 2013 (I believe; was 24,000 applicants that got through the testing). But would require me to stay in NJ or NY. While it is a great job, I valued getting out of NJ/NY more than that. Besides, calling the number that they gave in their message resulted in nobody picking the phone up... and that was more to thank them for the opportunity, but say to withdraw me from their pool.

 

If I'm putting in the application, taking the tests, doing the work to get the job, and eventually relocating... I could take the color of their uniforms as a deciding factor if I so choose. Not that I would... but definitely something I'm allowed to do. Firearms aren't as big of a thing, but caliber is... and why I don't want to apply somewhere that issues .45 GAP. Really, if that bothers someone, just take it as one less applicant going against you (hell, I'll even link you the application links for those agencies).

 

Whatever the case is, my decision factors for applying to a law enforcement agency isn't the topic of this thread; the P220 and the 1911 is.

[Rob0115 1,105]

Good luck with the job search I'm sure you'll find what you're looking for.  

I had a chance to fire a Sig 220 recently in my favorite semi-auto caliber 10mm.  While I'm a bit of a whore for 1911s I was really impressed with the pistol.  It had a really nice trigger, good feel and reset, was accurate and smooth. It was a friends and I'd have bought one if I could find the 10mm without that, IMHO, god awful kryptec cammo job.  

If I were only getting one pistol I'd get the 1911--infinitely customizable to your liking.  I have a kimber I've been fiddling with for years and the only kimber bits left are the frame and slide.  I haven't had it out in a while but shot it yesterday and the trigger is still great in this thing.  

If im not mistaken the 220 is the same capacity in 45 ACP.  

Perhaps a local range has them to rent?

Good luck I'm sure either way you go you won't be disappointed. 

[Rob0115 1,105]

14 hours ago, Maksim said:

... and that's the thing.

I had a Sig 226 USPSA edition (fiber optic front, SRT trigger, USPSA logo), and I liked it.  Sold it..

I now have a 229 in 357 Sig.

While I do like both guns, they do have that Sig magic to them... (at least the older ones do).  I would say a bit more than even HK.

While neither the HK P30L or the Sig 226 USPSA were "great" guns.... they were just good enough and I do miss them both.

The Sigs suffer from being a little tooo damn thick in the grips, in large part due to the decocker placement, e2 helped, but not perfect.  They are quite top heavy, slide wise.  I am not a fan of the grip angle.... too upright. The trigger, while the SRT is a great step up.... it still is just "eh" by good trigger standards... ie vs other DA/SA like CZ 75, and well, it is not a sweet SA 1911.  YET.... I dug it. lol.

Same with the HK P30L.  Stupid reliable, but that damn trigger reset and takeup was just toooooooooooooooooooooooo long.  Not the most accurate gun, but it was not designed to be, but stupid reliable.  Perfect home defense gun or for when the zombies come. 

While I owned both of them.... they rarely got shot, much like the 229 today.... but would not sell it now anyway.

So same with the 220.  yes it is reliable, Sig quality, blah blah blah.... but it's still a Sig and I would likely not have it in the regular gun rotation. 

Grey guns in Washington will clean up your p30 trigger.  

[Screwball 483]

Good luck with the job search I'm sure you'll find what you're looking for.  
I had a chance to fire a Sig 220 recently in my favorite semi-auto caliber 10mm.  While I'm a bit of a whore for 1911s I was really impressed with the pistol.  It had a really nice trigger, good feel and reset, was accurate and smooth. It was a friends and I'd have bought one if I could find the 10mm without that, IMHO, god awful kryptec cammo job.  
If I were only getting one pistol I'd get the 1911--infinitely customizable to your liking.  I have a kimber I've been fiddling with for years and the only kimber bits left are the frame and slide.  I haven't had it out in a while but shot it yesterday and the trigger is still great in this thing.  
If im not mistaken the 220 is the same capacity in 45 ACP.  
Perhaps a local range has them to rent?
Good luck I'm sure either way you go you won't be disappointed. 

First off, thanks for that. I appreciate it. It's a big move, but considering that most of my family is moving out in the next few years, I don't want to start a career here and get tied down for 25+ years.

I love the 10mm. When I got my S&W 1006, it really set the bar with what I'd want in a future 10mm. For the SIG, I am fond of the controls (prefer decockers over safeties... which is why I converted my Beretta to G). It is a well built pistol, even the .45. Issue for me with the .45 is SIG pricing. With the 10mm, I'd spend it because of the lack of 10mm pistols from other companies.

For 10mm 1911s, I'm not that big on them. In another thread that touched on the cartridge, I've seen more problems with 1911s chambered in 10mm than most other platforms (exception being the EAA guns). My view of a 1911 is definitely bias, being I like Government profiles in .45 (why I got that version of the Ruger). Other calibers really don't do it for me... but to be clear, I'm far from a 1911 guy. If anything, I'm torn between Beretta and CZ.

The P220 in 10mm is the same capacity as the .45, which always bothered me. S&W did one more in the 1006 over the 4506. Why not make that extra round fit, even if you had to redesign the magazine (never did a 10mm classic gun, do it right from Jump Street). If they did a 10mm P227... got to do 12+ in the base magazine. For a new design, I'd see it as the best time to make a standard magazine at a higher capacity... unlike the two differences in 9mm P229s (older one that used P228 magazines, and the newer one that adds two rounds and uses the profile of the .40 magazine body; since it just came up, I think Glock did the GAP line because they felt they should have gone with a less aggressive magazine stacking in the 21/30... maybe like the .45 Beretta PX4, which is a little more comfortable). At the same token, the extended ones... go 15+.

Again, I'm very biased...

[Rob0115 1,105]

2 hours ago, Screwball said:

 

First off, thanks for that. I appreciate it. It's a big move, but considering that most of my family is moving out in the next few years, I don't want to start a career here and get tied down for 25+ years.

I love the 10mm. When I got my S&W 1006, it really set the bar with what I'd want in a future 10mm. For the SIG, I am fond of the controls (prefer decockers over safeties... which is why I converted my Beretta to G). It is a well built pistol, even the .45. Issue for me with the .45 is SIG pricing. With the 10mm, I'd spend it because of the lack of 10mm pistols from other companies.

For 10mm 1911s, I'm not that big on them. In another thread that touched on the cartridge, I've seen more problems with 1911s chambered in 10mm than most other platforms (exception being the EAA guns). My view of a 1911 is definitely bias, being I like Government profiles in .45 (why I got that version of the Ruger). Other calibers really don't do it for me... but to be clear, I'm far from a 1911 guy. If anything, I'm torn between Beretta and CZ.

The P220 in 10mm is the same capacity as the .45, which always bothered me. S&W did one more in the 1006 over the 4506. Why not make that extra round fit, even if you had to redesign the magazine (never did a 10mm classic gun, do it right from Jump Street). If they did a 10mm P227... got to do 12+ in the base magazine. For a new design, I'd see it as the best time to make a standard magazine at a higher capacity... unlike the two differences in 9mm P229s (older one that used P228 magazines, and the newer one that adds two rounds and uses the profile of the .40 magazine body; since it just came up, I think Glock did the GAP line because they felt they should have gone with a less aggressive magazine stacking in the 21/30... maybe like the .45 Beretta PX4, which is a little more comfortable). At the same token, the extended ones... go 15+.

Again, I'm very biased...

 

We're all biased.   The 1006 is the nuts.   I have a 610 wheel gun that I love.  I'm in the process of converting a GP100 to a 3" 10mm carry piece. I've be starting to consider getting a 1006 before it's to difficult.  

[Screwball 483]

We're all biased. [emoji4]  The 1006 is the nuts.   I have a 610 wheel gun that I love.  I'm in the process of converting a GP100 to a 3" 10mm carry piece. I've be starting to consider getting a 1006 before it's to difficult.  

Prices are higher than the $675 I paid for mine... from a forum member, but off Beretta Forum. Don't think I was a member here at that time.

S&W stopping support/parts was a big thing, but magazines are outrageous. I have 10 or so magazines, then that FBI 15 rounder, but got them when they were under $50. They go from $80 to $100 for the standard 9 rounders. I was considering a 1066 or 1076, as I already have the magazines.