Mailing handguns to NJ

[Golani 1]

May be a stupid question but want to double check....I am a resident of NJ, have a valid FID and own several firearms here in the state. Long time ago I was a resident of Florida and have three pistols still at my parents house in Florida which I would like to send up here. I assume I have to send to an FFL and pick them up from there instead of sending directly to my own house? No need to fill out any form like waiver or handgun forms at my police dept? Never know with this state and don't want to end up in jail for a few years...

[jackandjill 682]

If you are not there (FL), are going to ask someone else to ship it ? Read ATF FAQ on interstate shipping.  

Not that it matters much, but do you have any proof of buying / owning those pistols ? 

Make sure everything else is kosher, such as your age, residency, etc when you acquired those pistols while in FL. 

If I were you, I would just drive them down or ship them myself when I am in Florida next time around. 

Oh, make sure they are NJ legal including mag capacity etc. 

[Golani 1]

Had the pistols over twenty years, acquired them from my father who will be shipping them to me. No records of ownership down there but everything legal with types of guns, age, etc.

 

[WP22 872]

In my completely inexperienced, uncredentialed, probably wrong opinion, if I were in your position, I would be asking myself:

1-Was I a resident of the state where and when those guns were bought?

2-Were those gun bought according to the rules in place at that time and place?

3-Are those guns NJ legal?

If so, I would just drive down and get them.

[jackandjill 682]

26 minutes ago, Golani said:

Had the pistols over twenty years, acquired them from my father who will be shipping them to me. No records of ownership down there but everything legal with types of guns, age, etc.

 

Owner (you) have to ship them yourself to yourself. 

[Golani 1]

32 minutes ago, WP22 said:

In my completely inexperienced, uncredentialed, probably wrong opinion, if I were in your position, I would be asking myself:

1-Was I a resident of the state where and when those guns were bought?

2-Were those gun bought according to the rules in place at that time and place?

3-Are those guns NJ legal?

If so, I would just drive down and get them.

I'd be more nervous driving them in and around NJ then just FedExing them. Real question is if I have to send them through a FFL or direct...

 

[Screwball 468]

I'd be more nervous driving them in and around NJ then just FedExing them. Real question is if I have to send them through a FFL or direct...

You'd have to ship them yourself... if your father is shipping them, then they must go to an FFL with a copy of his driver's license. They will be logged in, and you need to follow NJ law to get them (permits, 30-day wait, etc).

To ship them to yourself, go down, mail to yourself via FedEx or UPS (Next Day). But if you are going down there, driving is probably easier.

As long as you are not going out of your way to jam yourself up, nothing illegal is occurring in regards to having them in your car on your way home. You purchased them legally in Florida (can do face to face sales of handguns between residents down there, right?). No permit required, since you had them prior to moving here... judging they are legal in NJ.

If you really want better advice, contact a lawyer that knows NJ firearms law. Personally, the only thing I could see ever causing you issues is being a resident of Florida a "long time ago" and just bringing them up now. But it isn't like a NJSP troop car is going to be hunting your vehicle down for illegal weapons. If they are your firearms, no issues really can arise from it. Best to have paperwork showing the transfer occurred in Florida a "long time ago."

[jackandjill 682]

23 minutes ago, Golani said:

I'd be more nervous driving them in and around NJ then just FedExing them. Real question is if I have to send them through a FFL or direct...

 

There is a reason for that suggestion. Moving firearms between states falls into Fed (ATF) jurisdiction.  ATF FAQ (google it) clarifies that owner can ship firearms to self for all legal purposes / activity.   

Driving them yourself establishes that YOU (owner) moved them. To ship them, you have to be in FL when you ship them to yourself (NJ address). You cannot have your father ship the firearms.  

FFL is not required to move / ship your own firearms from a place where they are legal to a place where they will be legal. 

If you want ZERO RISK (is there a such thing?), go through the whole process of having your father ship them to a NJ FFL, do the P2P, multihandgun exemption etc. But then you would be admitting that the firearms in question were not yours but your father is transferring / selling them to you. 

 

[Golani 1]

9 minutes ago, jackandjill said:

There is a reason for that suggestion. Moving firearms between states falls into Fed (ATF) jurisdiction.  ATF FAQ (google it) clarifies that owner can ship firearms to self for all legal purposes / activity.   

Driving them yourself establishes that YOU (owner) moved them. To ship them, you have to be in FL when you ship them to yourself (NJ address). You cannot have your father ship the firearms.  

FFL is not required to move / ship your own firearms from a place where they are legal to a place where they will be legal. 

If you want ZERO RISK (is there a such thing?), go through the whole process of having your father ship them to a NJ FFL, do the P2P, multihandgun exemption etc. But then you would be admitting that the firearms in question were not yours but your father is transferring / selling them to you. 

 

don't really care if they think my father is transferring them to me now, that's fine. I know about the exemption, what is the P2P?

[jackandjill 682]

3 minutes ago, Golani said:

don't really care if they think my father is transferring them to me now, that's fine. I know about the exemption, what is the P2P?

I should have said Purchase Permit ..the usual NJ stuff. 

[Golani 1]

got ya. But won't it be the same thing if my father just puts my mane as the return address on the label as if I was sending it? Fedex does not ask for a license when dropping off a package to be shipped?

[Screwball 468]

got ya. But won't it be the same thing if my father just puts my mane as the return address on the label as if I was sending it? Fedex does not ask for a license when dropping off a package to be shipped?

Yea, let's openly post about fraud and Federal firearm violations over a publicly viewed forum...

Your father isn't you... so no, he can't just put your name on the return address.

[Golani 1]

11 minutes ago, Screwball said:

 

Yea, let's openly post about fraud and Federal firearm violations over a publicly viewed forum...

Your father isn't you... so no, he can't just put your name on the return address.
 

 

hypothetically of course

[Screwball 468]

hypothetically of course

 

Still... your father isn't you. So, doesn't change a thing.

 

To ship a handgun through either carrier, you must follow their rules. Must be declared as such, not loaded, etc. I don't know the protocol of a person shipping a handgun to themselves, since I always ship to either a FFL, manufacturer, or gunsmith... but don't remember them asking me for ID. If you go in, they might ask for it due to the oddity of the request... then what?

 

Hypothetical or not, the owner must ship the handgun. If it is going to two different people in two different states, and the receiver isn't doing work on the firearm (meaning it is going back to the shipper), it must go to an FFL. Can't make it clearer than that.

 

Since you aren't an FFL, you can't go USPS for them... so have to follow the shipper's guidelines. There is right and wrong... if you want to play in the gray and the guns get lost in transit, that is your rodeo.

[jackandjill 682]

13 minutes ago, Golani said:

hypothetically of course

Respectfully, you are worried about transporting (driving) to NJ in perfectly legal manner, but want to violate federal laws hypothetically ? 

If ATF/NJSP wants to track you or your father down, hypothetically of course, they have these things at FedEx, UPS, USPS... called "cameras". If they visit your home, within 10 minutes, you will be spilling beans about where you were around the time the firearms were shipped from FL supposedly by you. Either that or you will be lying to Feds and hindering investigation and bunch of other offenses. 

WHY ? You got your perfectly legal answer in the beginning of this thread. 

[Golani 1]

Everything on the up and up, just getting an education on all this since I never transported a firearm between states. 

I'm not going to drive two days to Florida to drive a few guns back to NJ when I can simply send them legally. Just wondering if FedEx or UPS requires ID of the shipper if there are declared firearms in the package.

To be as close to covered as I can be in NJ, I'll get a waiver and purchase form and have them shipped to Gun for Hire for transfer, just pay the added expenses of the forms and NIC costs plus whatever else they throw in there-

[Screwball 468]

Reread my last post... I put my experience, and opinion, on IDs at FedEx and UPS. They can ask you to open up the package and verify that everything is unloaded... if they want. I never did, but also didn't ship to myself in another state.

Personally, I'm done posting in here, as it is clear what is right and wrong. You are asking about IDs and stating obvious questions to illegally ship handguns from Florida to NJ. You understand that your father would have to ship to an FFL, as there is a transfer between two different individuals across state lines. Shy of that, there isn't anymore that can be said.

Any way you want to argue it as being "legal," unless you go down and ship/transport them, is illegal to ship directly to your residence. Take the info and do whatever... obviously you don't care about it. You get caught, it just gives legal NJ firearms owners a bad name.

[Golani 1]

Not doing and planning on doing anything that could be illegal here, just playing devil's advocate because some of this does not make complete sense. If you read my last post, said I'm going to have them sent to a FFL by me here and do the paperwork with the State Police, cheaper than buying a round trip ticket to bring them up. As I'm sure most NJ gun owners would agree, less the state knows about what I have, the better. Until they start forcing registration that is...

[jackandjill 682]

22 minutes ago, Golani said:

Not doing and planning on doing anything that could be illegal here, just playing devil's advocate because some of this does not make complete sense. If you read my last post, said I'm going to have them sent to a FFL by me here and do the paperwork with the State Police, cheaper than buying a round trip ticket to bring them up. As I'm sure most NJ gun owners would agree, less the state knows about what I have, the better. Until they start forcing registration that is...

It makes perfect sense. Alternative is to have shippers get into business of verifying that firearm is really yours. And how do you do that without registration ?  And how do you know the Fedex employee really verified you ?  As opposed to what some groups make you believe, there is no end to that paranoia.

As always, laws are for people who follows law. Criminals will always be criminals. There is no "shipping loophole".

Good for you for going the FFL route. There are few FFLs on this forum who is familiar with multi-handgun exemption etc. 

[Golani 1]

To add to the fun.....I just went down to my local police station and asked the officer for any forms to transfer my pistols up here to NJ. He told me that if they are mine, just FedEx or UPS them to a dealer and pick them up, no need for an exemption or any other forms.

The issue with this state always seems to be dependent on who you are dealing with, if a cop or any other federal official feels like giving you a hard time about something, you are going to be defending yourself in court no matter how "legally" you did it. Too many people with different understandings of firearms laws here. One of the reasons I think the less they know about you, the better off you are.

[raz-0 660]

OK. If your father is taking them and mailing them.. you created a transfer between you and your father. Most states, this poses zero issue. However he is then mailing them to an FFL who will transfer them to you. Which will need permits. It's the same as when your father transferred them to you without being dead and having them in the will.  

DAD->FFL->YOU means either your dad is breaking the law or you are unless you get the permits and do the transfer as if your father owned them. 

The legal way to do it is either go down there and ship to yourself. Or go down there and travel back with them. 

[Golani 1]

2 minutes ago, raz-0 said:

OK. If your father is taking them and mailing them.. you created a transfer between you and your father. Most states, this poses zero issue. However he is then mailing them to an FFL who will transfer them to you. Which will need permits. It's the same as when your father transferred them to you without being dead and having them in the will.  

DAD->FFL->YOU means either your dad is breaking the law or you are unless you get the permits and do the transfer as if your father owned them. 

The legal way to do it is either go down there and ship to yourself. Or go down there and travel back with them. 

Yep, since I am not down there to send to myself, have to act as though he owns them and transferring to me to be covered. It's a pain but necessary it seems. (Anyone driving from Florida to NJ soon? )

[jackandjill 682]

OP, Back on May 8th, 2017, did'nt you ask this forum about inheriting your fathers firearms from FL to NJ ?  

 

Signing off from this thread. 

[Golani 1]

Yes, was a different situation last month because my parents were thinking of moving to a smaller place. Now they are starting to pack up, want to get rid of anything they don't need to bring with them, i.e. my firearms. But see have to go through the same procedure regardless if they are mine or not. 

[Rob0115 1,025]

inheritance implies the giver is dead.

[siderman 600]

3 hours ago, Golani said:

Not doing and planning on doing anything that could be illegal here, just playing devil's advocate because some of this does not make complete sense. If you read my last post, said I'm going to have them sent to a FFL by me here and do the paperwork with the State Police, cheaper than buying a round trip ticket to bring them up. As I'm sure most NJ gun owners would agree, less the state knows about what I have, the better. Until they start forcing registration that is...

 So your father is sending /giving you "his" guns, you will need permits to pick them up from FFL. You do know that the local/state police each get copies of the permit and is a defacto registration. They will know what you have.

[Golani 1]

1 hour ago, siderman said:

 So your father is sending /giving you "his" guns, you will need permits to pick them up from FFL. You do know that the local/state police each get copies of the permit and is a defacto registration. They will know what you have.

I know but but worth driving to Florida to avoid having the information on me, not that paranoid, yet...