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Ray Ray

10mm and 357 Sig, making a comeback?

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This is just a theory of mine, but it seems to hold some water.  The market is flooded right now with 9mm and 45acp handguns.  There are so many options that you will go bananas.

But something happened.  Trump won the white house and gun sales took a dive.  So much so that you can find all kinds of cash back deals on guns AND ammo.  

We, as a gun community, have gotten spoiled and bored of the same old calibers and styles of guns.  We need something else to tickle our pickle.

In comes 2 calibers I think will help.  The 10mm Auto and 357.  

Ruger has already started this trend with a 10mm 1911.  The 10mm is slowly coming back but the 357 Sig is intriguing.  All you really need is a barrel and 40S&W magazines and the conversion is complete.

What do you guys think?  I'm I off or am i on to something?

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2 hours ago, Ray Ray said:

357 Sig is intriguing.  All you really need is a barrel and 40S&W magazines and the conversion is complete.

Wait, why would you want a conversion anything or even bring up a conversion as a benefit?

[sarcasm] Why not just get a gun that was built to be a 357 Sig from the get-go?

Aren't you concerned about reliability and legality IF said firearm is used in a self-defense role?

Let me ask you, which gun do you think would be more reliable?

A Glock 22 converted to 357 Sig

Or

A Glock 31?

Seriously - Why do all that "conversion" nonsense when you could save yourself any drama by buying a 357 Sig gun?  A G32 for example, that was born a 357 Sig with 357 Sig parts, slide, frame, and all the rest.

Doesn't it just seem risky to you? But, hey to each his own.

[/sarcasm]

#hypocriticalRayRay

https://www.njgunforums.com/forum/index.php?/topic/86808-glock-22-9mm-conversion-checklist/#comment-1116142

:p

Anyway.....   In reality, if you bought a 10mm Glock, you can convert it to shoot .40 and 357 Sig by just swapping in conversion barrels.

Now, I don't know about the rest of your topic, as I don't really care about either caliber. They both seem to be favorites of people that just want something different for the sake of being different - and that's OK.

I do see the benefit of 10mm for hunting and outdoor activities, but as a self defense round it may be a bit overkill.

 

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10mm went somewhere?  My favorite auto cartridge.  

5 hours ago, High Exposure said:

Wait, why would you want a conversion anything or even bring up a conversion as a benefit?

[sarcasm] Why not just get a gun that was built to be a 357 Sig from the get-go?

Aren't you concerned about reliability and legality IF said firearm is used in a self-defense role?

Let me ask you, which gun do you think would be more reliable?

A Glock 22 converted to 357 Sig

Or

A Glock 31?

Seriously - Why do all that "conversion" nonsense when you could save yourself any drama by buying a 357 Sig gun?  A G32 for example, that was born a 357 Sig with 357 Sig parts, slide, frame, and all the rest.

Doesn't it just seem risky to you? But, hey to each his own.

[/sarcasm]

#hypocriticalRayRay

https://www.njgunforums.com/forum/index.php?/topic/86808-glock-22-9mm-conversion-checklist/#comment-1116142

:p

Anyway.....   In reality, if you bought a 10mm Glock, you can convert it to shoot .40 and 357 Sig by just swapping in conversion barrels.

Now, I don't know about the rest of your topic, as I don't really care about either caliber. They both seem to be favorites of people that just want something different for the sake of being different - and that's OK.

I do see the benefit of 10mm for hunting and outdoor activities, but as a self defense round it may be a bit overkill.

 

10mm is in large frame Glock can you get a conversion barrel for a small frame Glock?

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19 minutes ago, Rob0115 said:

10mm went somewhere?  My favorite auto cartridge.  

10mm is in large frame Glock can you get a conversion barrel for a small frame Glock?

It converts the other way. I know KKM makes a .40 barrel that will convert your large frame 10mm Glock to shoot the "lesser" caliber.

I think LoneWolf Distributors does as well in .40 and 357Sig.

 

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An HK.... sorry. Couldn't help myself. Lmao!
[emoji23]


Let me ask you, which gun do you think would be more reliable?




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21 minutes ago, High Exposure said:

It converts the other way. I know KKM makes a .40 barrel that will convert your large frame 10mm Glock to shoot the "lesser" caliber.

I think LoneWolf Distributors does as well in .40 and 357Sig.

 

Ok, cool misunderstood--was thinking the other way around. 

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I generally agree with HE's post above.

The 357 SIG is the result of attempting to duplicate the 357 magnum in a semiautomatic caliber.  The 10mm is the result of trying to duplicate 41 Magnum.

IMO, neither is a "needed" caliber.  Okay if you want something different but that's about where the need ends.

 I often refer to 357 SIG as my idea of a 9mm +P+.  I feel a standard 9mm parabellum works fine as a SD cartridge. If I want 357 magnum performance I'll use a revolver and can also use heavier bullets.  I have a 8 shot N frame size 357 so I'm not giving up much in capacity if that's an issue.

The 41 Magnum came about as an attempt to upgrade police handguns from 38s and 357s in the 60s.  The problem was most pds tried it with the full power load and found it too much. The 10mm was an attempt to solve the issues in a police round and again it was too much.

A full 10mm is definitely overkill for SD uses.  Even Dirty Harry said he used a 3/4 load in his 44 Magnum.  A 3/4 load 10mm is a 40 S&W.

They're all good calibers but I generally refer to 357 SIG and 10mm as "designer calibers".  Yes they serve a function but they weren't "needed". That's why they never really caught on like the 45 GAP or 327 Magnum which are also useful but will never really catch on.

They'll all be around for some time but will never reach the popularity of 9mm, 38 special, 357 mag, 44 mag,  or 45 ACP. You can walk into just about any Walmart  (outside of NJ) or any half as sporting goods store and find those calibers.  Good luck finding 10mm, 357 SIG, 45 GAP, or 327 Magnum everywhere.

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Not trying to start the HK v Glock v Sig v whatevs....
That statement was a direct quote of Ray's in another thread where he poo-poos caliber conversions.

Was just busting your balls because I know you are such an HK fan, ummm, I mean Glock fan. Hehe. [emoji6]


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10mm is starting to get some traction... but I don't think it will be a revolution. A round like 10mm just needs more guns to shoot it...like a handy carbine. [emoji6]

.357 SIG... I'm very lukewarm to. If the S&W 10mm barrel project on S&W Forum ever formulated, I'd have a .40 and .357 barrel for my 1006. I like unique things in my collection... and that definitely fits the bill. I'm not interested in moving into .357 SIG for a major caliber, but it would be nice to experiment with it.

My other convertible .40s would be a 96G Centurion slide for my Beretta... but not too fond of the older 96 design (the buffer system in the 96A1 does the job of not beating the crap out of the frame).

I also have two S&W M&P40s (a 5" Pro and a Compact)... but kind of don't want .357 barrels for them. They are paired to a .40 KelTec SUB-2000, which uses the M&P magazines. So, rather not be loading .357 into magazines that could find their way into a rifle I cannot convert.

But I think my lack of interest in .357 SIG is due to my lack of interest in .357 Magnum...

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38 minutes ago, Screwball said:

10mm is starting to get some traction... but I don't think it will be a revolution. A round like 10mm just needs more guns to shoot it...like a handy carbine. emoji6.png

Quarter Circle 10 sells large frame Glock AR lowers, bolts, and barrels for building  10mm ARs.

For just under a grand (depending on what options you wanted) you could assemble a reliable, fun, and accurate little AR that shoots 10mm and takes Glock mags.

Just sayin'

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I think you guys missed my point.   We need something "different".  

@High Exposure I meant gun manufactures making it an easy swap, for parts compatibility. 

But in all seriousness, 357 Sig is directly connected to both 40S&W (brass casings) and 9mm (bullets).  So 357 Sig can bridge that gap.

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I think you guys missed my point.   We need something "different".   [mention=3967]High Exposure[/mention] I meant gun manufactures making it an easy swap, for parts compatibility. 

But in all seriousness, 357 Sig is directly connected to both 40S&W (brass casings) and 9mm (bullets).  So 357 Sig can bridge that gap.

 

 

To me, worrying about another caliber is like another company just coming out with their first AR.... how many times can you try reinvent the wheel and try to corner the market.

 

I don't think the caliber lost any popularity because of lack of guns. I think its just one of those things that people say, meh.... we got calibers that work.

 

IMHO, Another instance of a caliber that -did- make a comeback was the .380.... I was never a fan because a 9mm covered it. But because the round itself improved so much over the years, its still popular, new 380s are still being made and sometimes reinvented. Works great for the 380 fans of yester-year.

Would make no sense for me to invest in a 380 because my P938 covers it and is a caliber I have many weapons in. I also don't buy guns to be a fan of a brand or caliber.

 

 

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I have guns in both 10mm and 357Sig.  I can't say when the last time I shot the 357Sig, but now that I live in bear country I carry the G29 or G20 quite a bit.  I have wheel guns that are more powerful, but the Glocks are very light for hiking.  I have found that 10mm ammo is much more available now than I experienced in the past with a lot more options.  There are also a lot more 10mm guns being made.

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54 minutes ago, bhunted said:

 

To me, worrying about another caliber is like another company just coming out with their first AR.... how many times can you try reinvent the wheel and try to corner the market.

 

I don't think the caliber lost any popularity because of lack of guns. I think its just one of those things that people say, meh.... we got calibers that work.

 

IMHO, Another instance of a caliber that -did- make a comeback was the .380.... I was never a fan because a 9mm covered it. But because the round itself improved so much over the years, its still popular, new 380s are still being made and sometimes reinvented. Works great for the 380 fans of yester-year.

Would make no sense for me to invest in a 380 because my P938 covers it and is a caliber I have many weapons in. I also don't buy guns to be a fan of a brand or caliber.

 

 

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Don't tell that to my grandma in WA that carries here new p238. She's excited at 77.

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IMHO, Another instance of a caliber that -did- make a comeback was the .380.... I was never a fan because a 9mm covered it. But because the round itself improved so much over the years, its still popular, new 380s are still being made and sometimes reinvented. Works great for the 380 fans of yester-year.
Would make no sense for me to invest in a 380 because my P938 covers it and is a caliber I have many weapons in. I also don't buy guns to be a fan of a brand or caliber.
 
 
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Partially agree... bought a P938 to replace my LCP, and converted my S&W 642-1 from .38 to 9mm.

But .380 shines in a small pistol. While the P938 is small, I can't put that in a pocket other than a cargo pocket. Well, I can, but can't effectively draw from a front pocket.

My LCP, in a Recluse pocket holster, fits comfortably in my back pocket... and can draw from there. With the Magguts magazine kit, my holster, that looks like a wallet, holds the gun and spare magazine... coming out to 15 rounds of .380 in one pocket. While .380 is less powerful than 9mm, that is a good amount of firepower.

IMG_0483.jpg

While the P938 replaced the LCP, will never sell it. Just too easy of a gun to conceal to get rid of.

To go back to the original topic, yes... .357 SIG bridges 9mm and .40. But why not shoot .40 or 9mm +P+? Costs for .357 SIG make it a little too much for regular practice... which is something I'd recommend for a higher recoil round.

10mm, it definitely shines as a reloader's cartridge. I don't reload (will when I get the room to do it), but 10mm ammo is out there. Plus, I don't have to worry about it fitting in a .40 gun. [emoji41]

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I have to admit I have plenty of fun with weird calibers.   Oddly I don't not have .357 Sig but may change my mind as I have s Glock 35 long slide that needs to be assembled soon.  I enjoy making and shooting several wildcats like 9x25 Dillon which is the same principal as .357 Sig.  It's a 9mm bullet in necked down 10mm brass instead of .40 brass.  It makes for quite a potent round.  

There are others like .400 CorBon (.45 ACP necked to .40) etc and I do it because it really costs no more money to make, other than the investment in dies.  I have all this brass and these bullets so reforming is a snap.  Load development is a bit more challenging because of lack of published data but that adds to the challenge / enjoyment.  

Do I have a purpose for these? Nah, I read about them become intellectually curious and then say I'm gonna try that. 

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Here is my P938 in my DeSantis pocket holster. It does fit my front denim pockets and because it has a slight stickiness to it, it can be drawn easily.

fce5c5d7aac37df5c91dd7cb981cb76a.jpg
3f51f9526d390412f39e9a3d16e285c2.jpg


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[mention=4929]Screwball[/mention], can you please remove those grips from your Ruger 1911?  Thanks.  


They usually are off...

25E9B319-E909-4E3E-82BB-BD3574695EED_zps343htl0o.jpg

I run them if I want to run a light, as I rather be able to use regular Government model holsters instead of doing a custom or universal holster for a SR1911 with a Novak rail.

Sorry if something I paid for bothers you. [emoji6]
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I have no use for 357 sig. Ill just shoot 9mm +P and get roughly the same ballistics. The 10mm on the other hand does have its uses in areas where the issue may be 4 legged and you need that additional penetration.

Ray, you may need a shiny balloon to hold your interest but many do not. Personally Id rather shoot more or train more. I have no issue for those that find it fun to have diverse calibers but those that do usually have an understanding that it isn't solving anything more for them, its just the fun of it. Rural animal concerns and 4 legged creatures not withstanding.

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The manufacturers are making 10mm because with contraction in the market, you have to sell something to everyone rather than everything to somebody. Hard hitting pistol calibers is a niche that exists and 10mm is the go to carriage for that. .357 never was and has limited appeal. I don't know anyone who likes shooting it. It isn't remarkably accurate. It more or less fails at its intended goal and its a pain in the ass to reload for. The only redeeming property is that demand is low and conversion from forty is basically a barrel. So you can buy a barrel and be able to source ammo when there's a run on it in general.

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On 6/26/2017 at 7:11 PM, Shane45 said:

Ray, you may need a shiny balloon to hold your interest but many do not. Personally Id rather shoot more or train more. 

I never said this topic was about ME, rather OUR community.  I don't own a 10mm or 357sig or 40S&W or 45Gap or whatever.  But some do.  And some want more.  You missed my whole point.

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