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Zeke

Sooooo how come your mail is federally controlled

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More money in junk mail then the 2nd...

It would be shooting that goose. No money in the 2nd.

I got it! Let pass a law that everyone must carry! And charge a fee (tax?) to control it. Anyone caught not carrying would be subject to a fine (tax?) and possibly jail time. This would serve two purposes. One to help fund the law (control) and two it would get a lotta  libs off the streets. :D  

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25 minutes ago, SmittyMHS said:

More money in junk mail then the 2nd...

It would be shooting that goose. No money in the 2nd.

I got it! Let pass a law that everyone must carry! And charge a fee (tax?) to control it. Anyone caught not carrying would be subject to a fine (tax?) and possibly jail time. This would serve two purposes. One to help fund the law (control) and two it would get a lotta  libs off the streets. :D  

Very outside the box, yet towns in this country do have " a mandatory house hold possession ordinance "

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4 minutes ago, Walt of Destiny said:

Ahh, but speech isn't commerce. Unless it's for money and then it's regulated by the FCC. A lot of business gets conducted via USPS across state borders. 

Sooo then, is your right to self preservation?

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Not sure I read "self preserveation" in the constitution. Life, liberty and pursuit of happiness. One would think "Life" covers that, but we can't get a court to agree. 

Driver's licenses/car registrations are regulated by the states. Even tho we drive them over state lines, but there is a specific reciprocal agreement to accept DLs and Registrations from another state. Temporarily. Longer than 30 days you must get local docs and pay. 

It is a combo of power and money. The 10th gives those powers that aren't specifically given to the Feds to the states. What's funny is that nobody continues the text.  "Or to the people" which is to say that any overreach by the state, lets say like like not recognizing the NFA process, should be challenged because the RTKABA is specifically enumerated in the constitution. Right after the first amendment as a sentinel. Yet we all cower at the power of some idiot civil servants. I'm not talking armed revolution. I'm talking getting off our asses and making our voices heard at the ballot box. We have that option. The  framers didn't. We insult their memory and sacrifice by sitting on our hands and not voting.  They'd be shooting by now because they were subjects and had no choice. We do. 

Jews during Passover Seder eat bitter herbs and unleavened bread to remind them that they were packing to leave  bondage when the first Passover happened. No time to make a proper meal. 

Why the seeming non sequitur? Because we as free men and women should have something to remind us of what happened  two centuries plus 41 years ago yesterday. That those that gave everything to secure that freedom knew that it needed to be protected. Hey knew the bitter taste of subjugation, they also knew the penchant for human beings to grow complacent with pleasurable distractions. They wrote a document that they thought—hoped, would consider that human failing. Yet by that very complacency, we've abdicated quite a few precious rights. And now, when that horse is way out of the barn, we try to claw back. Tough row to hoe. We need some reminder of that bitterness, because the water is starting to boil. We frogs are starting to sweat. 

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My constant pontification is mostly about being, at a minimum, a voter. To understand that those that would infringe on our freedoms are single issue voters. We need to be as well. The only litmus test we should have is "will they defend liberty." The rest of it is horseshit. 

For instance, you can't be more anti 2nd than BHO, and he was also anti 1st. He persecuted journalists, forced the religious, well only Christians, to accept what is, to them, abhorrent and stepped all over freedom of speech with political correctness. So an enemy to the 2nd is usually an enemy to freedom in general. To consider that I know several gun owners that either didn't vote or voted for HRC, makes my stomach turn. 

I disagree that DLs are a bad example. Yes, it is a privilege compared to our 2nd amendment rights. But we have abdicated our rights and for all intents and purposes made it a privilege to own a gun. We actually abdicated our right to self protection outright since the SCOTUS won't even hear the case.  

Is it easier to get a DL or an FID? Cars cause several times more carnage than guns. Hell, I think you should need a license to have a pool as they kill more healthy kids than guns ever will. But I digress. 

The narrative is that it's a gun death epidemic. It isn't. So let's not be so quick to capitulate. 

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To illustrate the point, here we have an article about a GOP nyc mayoral candidate, whose other views I do not know, who mentioned that she was regretting her votes against gay marriage.

Party leaders made a big deal and it's in the paper. She is probably the nominee now by default as her only opponent dropped out. So one of the worst mayors in history, racked in privilege, scandals and tone deafness, will go for reelection essentially unopposed.

I ask, when was the last time you saw any reporting of this sort concerning a Dem? Our ex dear leader did the same without a blip.

Who gives a shit if gays marry? Protect our civil liberties. We should adopt that particular stance with everything. But we won't. Because we are so damn honorable and conscientious that we will have those qualities used against us every time.

Our rotund RINO could have not hurt Kim's chances like he did with his standoff, the only losers of which are taxpayers, but he did. 5 months from the election.

Murphy will put Kim right there on the beach with his corpulent self. In a thong.

http://nypost.com/2017/07/05/conservatives-blast-gop-mayoral-candidate-over-new-gay-marriage-stance/?utm_campaign=iosapp&utm_source=message_app


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You don't want your 2A to be "controlled", federally or not.   Feds already got too much power under ridiculous interpretation of "interstate commerce". If Judiciary were to stand up for People and correctly interpret the "interstate commerce", good portion  of Fed laws go out the window. 

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You don't want your 2A to be "controlled", federally or not.   Feds already got too much power under ridiculous interpretation of "interstate commerce". If Judiciary were to stand up for People and correctly interpret the "interstate commerce", good portion  of Fed laws go out the window. 



That's really the issue. The interpretation of the 2nd. Even though our esteemed Zeke thinks it was written with no daylight, it is interpreted every day by courts and prosecutors every day. Believe it or not you have to take into account historical context, textual context, intent of the framers and of course grammar. Every single attempt to infringe on our rights is unconstitutional when examined in the above light.

First, rights belong to people. Never states or any government agency. The constitution always confers rights to people and powers to states and gov't entities. So understanding that the historical context of the document was an atmosphere of distrust of the federal anything they were making sure the fed didn't override the state's self determination. Therefore the 10th. Because the states were very concerned about fighting out of one tyranny only to be replaced by another. However, the framers were "natural scientists" that believed that the rights of the people came from God or nature, never granted by anyone. Whereas the king of England ruled over subjects by divine right. The constitution was written in a specific and exact manner to enumerate this belief.

Second, the historical context of "well-regulated" is starkly different from what we think it means today. It's not that the militia should be "regulated", much less the right to bear arms, think of that phrase as "proper"...

"A proper militia being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."

They were setting out the justification of why the people had the rtkaba. Make no mistake, when they wrote "free" they were talking about people, not a state as a government entity. They then wrote the only part of the clause that was actually law, the important bit...

"the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."

The common usage of commas at the time almost renders the entire clause gibberish. So in plain modern language it would be written, imho:

"Because a militia protects the ability of a free people to protect themselves from tyranny, people have the unalienable right to bear arms, and no entity has the power to infringe on that right"


I would then add "since the only reason a government would infringe on that is to subjugate its people."

I'm not making this up as it is a matter of intense debate amongst constitutional scholars.

Additionally, in the very early 1900's the congress ruled that the "militia" is every able bodied man, 17-45 years of age in the country. It's called the Dick Act. Really. It mostly organizes the national guard like the regular army and mentions that the unorganized militia as everyone. The tinfoil crowd screams that the definition of a proper militia is that every able bodied man must maintain arms. That's a stretch, but nevertheless it does establish that the 2nd has nothing to do with hunting, target practice or any such shit. It was for suppression of tyranny and protection of the homeland. Pure and simple.

But what do I know, not much.





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10 minutes ago, Walt of Destiny said:

 

 


That's really the issue. The interpretation of the 2nd. Even though our esteemed Zeke thinks it was written with no daylight, it is interpreted every day by courts and prosecutors every day. Believe it or not you have to take into account historical context, textual context, intent of the framers and of course grammar. Every single attempt to infringe on our rights is unconstitutional when examined in the above light.

First, rights belong to people. Never states or any government agency. The constitution always confers rights to people and powers to states and gov't entities. So understanding that the historical context of the document was an atmosphere of distrust of the federal anything they were making sure the fed didn't override the state's self determination. Therefore the 10th. Because the states were very concerned about fighting out of one tyranny only to be replaced by another. However, the framers were "natural scientists" that believed that the rights of the people came from God or nature, never granted by anyone. Whereas the king of England ruled over subjects by divine right. The constitution was written in a specific and exact manner to enumerate this belief.

Second, the historical context of "well-regulated" is starkly different from what we think it means today. It's not that the militia should be "regulated", much less the right to bear arms, think of that phrase as "proper"...

"A proper militia being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."

They were setting out the justification of why the people had the rtkaba. Make no mistake, when they wrote "free" they were talking about people, not a state as a government entity. They then wrote the only part of the clause that was actually law, the important bit...

"the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."

The common usage of commas at the time almost renders the entire clause gibberish. So in plain modern language it would be written, imho:

"Because a militia protects the ability of a free people to protect themselves from tyranny, people have the unalienable right to bear arms, and no entity has the power to infringe on that right"


I would then add "since the only reason a government would infringe on that is to subjugate its people."

I'm not making this up as it is a matter of intense debate amongst constitutional scholars.

Additionally, in the very early 1900's the congress ruled that the "militia" is every able bodied man, 17-45 years of age in the country. It's called the Dick Act. Really. It mostly organizes the national guard like the regular army and mentions that the unorganized militia as everyone. The tinfoil crowd screams that the definition of a proper militia is that every able bodied man must maintain arms. That's a stretch, but nevertheless it does establish that the 2nd has nothing to do with hunting, target practice or any such shit. It was for suppression of tyranny and protection of the homeland. Pure and simple.

But what do I know, not much.





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How did we get here? That's what they'd say. Wut, you were sleeping or sumtin? 

Thats wut they'd say

jus sayen, wut they'd be sayen 

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They'd say that we traded a lot of freedom for a mirage of security. 

They'd say that they worked really hard to be clear and unwavering in their distrust of any government. Yet a significant portion of the citizenry has abdicated everything to the yoke of entitlements. 

They'd say that democracy is based on stake holders self determining their course. Not on the increasing majority with no stake, determining the course of everyone for their own handouts. 

They'd say a lot of things. But mostly they'd be reloading. 

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1 hour ago, Walt of Destiny said:

They'd say that we traded a lot of freedom for a mirage of security. 

They'd say that they worked really hard to be clear and unwavering in their distrust of any government. Yet a significant portion of the citizenry has abdicated everything to the yoke of entitlements. 

They'd say that democracy is based on stake holders self determining their course. Not on the increasing majority with no stake, determining the course of everyone for their own handouts. 

They'd say a lot of things. But mostly they'd be reloading. 

Notice your rhetoric change?

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9 minutes ago, Zeke said:

Notice your rhetoric change?

Not really. I quote the founders, framers whatever as shooting or reloading not because I'm an advocate for violence, but to illustrate that they had no choice. We do...For now. If we don't exercise the one, then that right will be diluted to the point of irrelevance. Sort of like us voting in NJ California or Illinois. There are more of us than of them. There really is. But as long as we sit on our hands, we are setting in motion a sequence of things that will most assuredly end in violence. Something most of us don't want. 

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4 minutes ago, Walt of Destiny said:

Not really. I quote the founders, framers whatever as shooting or reloading not because I'm an advocate for violence, but to illustrate that they had no choice. We do...For now. If we don't exercise the one, then that right will be diluted to the point of irrelevance. Sort of like us voting in NJ California or Illinois. There are more of us than of them. There really is. But as long as we sit on our hands, we are setting in motion a sequence of things that will most assuredly end in violence. Something most of us don't want. 

I see it

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