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"Cheap" Red Dot?

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This must have been asked and answered, but I couldn't find anything after doing a search, so here goes.

I've had an Eotech 512 on my AR and a primary arms red dot on my MP-15 22 for years, and both have performed perfectly through thousands of rounds, including several carbine classes with my AR/Eotech.  Downside of the Eotech 512 is it is big and heavy, so for the hell of it I put the Primary Arms on my AR and took it to the range and sighted in yesterday.  Worked quite well and I was able to shoot very tight groups at 50 yards.  However, when I got home I saw that the sight now has significant hazy red "ghosting" along the side, although the dot itself is still working fine.  I suspect that the recoil my have been too much.  So, I may just put the 512 back on the gun -- I want it available as a defensive gun with a completely reliable sight.   It would be great to have a smaller micro red dot on the gun instead of the Eotech, but anything from Aimpoint or Trijicon will cost more than the gun itself.  So, anyone have experience with a micro red dot in the 200-300 range that one would feel 100% comfortable with on a defensive rifle from a reliability standpoint?  Only brand I'm aware of is Vortex, but even that may not be good enough. 

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I've been pretty happy with my Vortex Sparc AR. I only have a few hundred rounds through my AR with it on, but it seems solid so far. It isn't an Aimpoint, EOTech or Trijicon, but it's great for the price. Palmetto State Armory has had them as low as $139.99 as a daily deal in the past. It uses a single AAA battery which is good and bad. The good is you can find a AAA battery anywhere (and I have the Magpul MOE grip with two additional AAA batteries in it). The bad is the battery life isn't anywhere near as long as some of the other options on the market (but those button cells aren't as easy to find as AAAs are).

As for Holosun, I've read good things about Holosun (and Sig...Holosun makes Sig's optics) but haven't handled them.

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If going Holosun, go with SIG... mainly for the warranty going through them.

I picked up one (SIG branded Holosun) for my father a year or so back. Lots of nice features, like auto-shutdown, but turns on when the rifle is moved. It is similar in profile to my Comp M4s, and uses AA batteries.

I don't have a problem with budget red dots, but go on AR15.com and see red dots that are being sold used. If you don't want to spend $500+ on an Aimpoint, you can scratch a few hundred off by getting something that might have a scratch or two on the body. My Comp M4s was probably the same price as a new PRO... if you take off the accessories that came with it.

In regards to Micros, I'd see if you can look through one before buying. I had that opportunity down in Florida to look through a T2, and I hated how small the window was. I'll take the added weight of the Comp series, just for that larger tube.

I have a cheap red dot on my Beretta CX4 (BSA, I believe). Have three Aimpoints; two PROs (on my Tavor and 5.56mm AR) and one Comp M4s (on my .45 D/I AR). I have a partially built AR lower that will be a 20" AR... probably will get another PRO for that (not finishing build until I'm out of NJ, just to make it easier).

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I am an Aimpoint guy. I have 5 T1s and 4 PROs. 

My first choice is to save a bit and make an Aimpoint fit your budget.

That being said, I have a Holosun (I forget what model, it's the T1 clone) on my .40 carbine that has been running like a top. I have no qualms recommending it.

Also, the FBI - the agency responsible for detecting the problem with the EoTechs wandering zero - has recently approved the Sig Romeo 4 (built by Holosun) for duty use by their SWAT teams.

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Cabelas has the Trijicon RMR on sale for $349, backorder only.  That is a great deal.  I also have a Burris Fastfire III that works well.  I originally got it for turkey hunting but now have it mounted on my 300AAC pistol.

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18 minutes ago, JC_68Westy said:

Cabelas has the Trijicon RMR on sale for $349, backorder only.  That is a great deal.  I also have a Burris Fastfire III that works well.  I originally got it for turkey hunting but now have it mounted on my 300AAC pistol.

I just got one of these for a pistol build and didn't even think of it for a rifle. This is an excellent choice. You can get a lower 1/3 cowitness mount for it and it would be a very capable and reliable CQB optic for half the price of a T1 and less weight.

If you are worried about battery life, reported battery life in the field is a little over 3 years. Swap batteries once a year and you are good.

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3 hours ago, JC_68Westy said:

Cabelas has the Trijicon RMR on sale for $349, backorder only.  That is a great deal.  I also have a Burris Fastfire III that works well.  I originally got it for turkey hunting but now have it mounted on my 300AAC pistol.

Wow! If I didn't have my Vortex I'd get that! I got in on some discounted gift cards and was planning on a case of ammo, but now I need to think about it. The only non USA made part on my AR (to my knowledge) is my Vortex red dot, and while I don't "need" it, a 100% US AR  build does have a nice ring to it. 

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Just curious- did you try reaching out to Primary Arms about the ghosting that you saw in your red dot?

 

They are usually very good about handling situations like this and send you an RMA to have you ship the red dot back to them so they can look at it and send a replacement to you quickly

 

I had an small issue with one of their prism scopes awhile back and I received a replacement scope within a couple of days after contacting them, no questions asked (they just wanted the original one back. I've always had great service from Them

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

 

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Thanks for all of the feedback.  My primary arms sight is probably six years old.  Not going to bother sending it back -- will probably put it back on my M&P 15-22 which is just a plinker.  Ordered a Sig Sauer Romeo5 for $120.  I see they have gotten multiple stellar reviews so hopefully it will hold up better than the PA.  If not back to the Eotech.

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Bought the Sig Romeo 5.  There are a bunch of superlative reviews on Youtube and elsewhere.  $120, so I gave it a shot.  First impression is that it is more substantial, more refined and an all around higher quality product than the primary arms red dot I have  (which is 5 years old, so can't speak to current PA).  The glass is surprisingly clear and the two mounts it comes with are surprisingly solid.  I hope to zero it in and shoot it soon.

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I just can't see spending 500+ on an aimpoint fora gun that will see range use and may, in some remote, dark fantasy scenario, possibly, maybe be used for defensive purposes.  It appears, from everything I've read and seen, that the $100-200 red dots are now perfectly reliable for ordinary use by civilians, and probably for LEOs as well.

 

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52 minutes ago, PDM said:

I just can't see spending 500+ on an aimpoint fora gun that will see range use and may, in some remote, dark fantasy scenario, possibly, maybe be used for defensive purposes.  It appears, from everything I've read and seen, that the $100-200 red dots are now perfectly reliable for ordinary use by civilians, and probably for LEOs as well.

 

Sure, on a range toy that makes sense.  But if I plan to use said firearm in a defensive role I will use a trusted optic.  Not one that you can get in the same packaging kids toys come in.

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I just can't see spending 500+ on an aimpoint fora gun that will see range use and may, in some remote, dark fantasy scenario, possibly, maybe be used for defensive purposes.  It appears, from everything I've read and seen, that the $100-200 red dots are now perfectly reliable for ordinary use by civilians, and probably for LEOs as well.


People make decisions based on cost...

While you don't see buying an Aimpoint as beneficial, my three are not going anywhere. They will work through any hell I can put them through. Will a SIG red dot make it through the same use? Don't know, but I don't have to worry about it. That is the reason why I spent about $200 more than your price range (PROs go for $400 and under; I got my CompM4s used for about that).

In regards to perfectly reliable, just looking at one Holosun optic's (HS403A) reviews on Amazon, there were plenty of issues; not turning on, not holding zero, windage adjustment not working, lens popping off, dot splash, issues with rifles over 5.56mm.

Similar SIG optic (Romeo 5), had less bad reviews... but still some (not turning on and dot splash were the two main ones).

Looked up the Aimpoint T2... and there were complaints. All of them were due to fake red dots being sold as Aimpoints. Did not see a bad review of a true Aimpoint.

In regards to warranty, Aimpoint stands behind their stuff. SIG stands behind their stuff. I'm sure even Holosun stands behind their stuff, but you have a higher chance of getting a defective replacement... not saying it will be defective, but it is the luck of the draw.

I don't want to worry about my equipment in those "remote, dark fantasy scenario, possibly, maybe be used for defensive purposes." To me, the extra $200 is worth that peace of mind.

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I think it depends a lot on what you're trying to do.  I have an Aimpoint PRO on my AR that I have run through a lot of hard training classes, and it has never failed me.  I believe the battery life is somewhere around 50,000 hours.  It would be my go-to in an SHTF situation.

OTOH, I have a Sig Romeo 5 on one of my 9 mm carbines, some Primary Arms RDS's on my AK's, and some cheap Bushnells (under $100) on my .22's.  (As I'm writing this, I'm thinking I should upgrade the sights on at least one of my AK's, as they would be incredibly dependable in a doomsday scenario, and I'm not good with their iron sights)

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OTOH, I have a Sig Romeo 5 on one of my 9 mm carbines, some Primary Arms RDS's on my AK's, and some cheap Bushnells (under $100) on my .22's.


Mentioning that, I will add that I don't have to run Aimpoints on everything, or never have ran cheaper optics...

I still run an old BSA red dot on my Beretta CX4 because it cowitnesses the stock sights. My main 5.56mm AR, which runs my first Aimpoint PRO, had a Bushnell red dot (looked like an ACOG, no magnification, but had three dots on top in case the sight went dead). I have the PROs on that AR and my Tavor, being those likely will have heavier use over my .45 AR (at least until I can get 20 rounders for it). The PROs have those rubber bumpers on it, so while I could care less how scratched up it gets from use, if it hits a hard object, there is some cushion... even though I know it would be able to handle it. And besides, if that .45 AR does get 20 rounders in it, it will be a home defense gun... and I tend to have AA batteries around the house (good choice for the Comp M4s).

Scopes, I'm probably worse off. My .22 AR upper has a Bushnell 3-9x, my 10/22 Takedown has a Barska 4x, and my Marlin Model 60 has the cheapest Tasco 4x scope from the 1990s (if I remember correctly, my dad got the package from K-Mart).

My hunting shotguns/rifles tend to have vintage Burris or Weaver scopes... ones that were made before the cheapening of quality among most companies. Very happy with them, as I'm not messing with the knobs in those roles (zero and know the trajectory).

Have a few period correct scopes; correct Ordinance Optics scope for my Oswald Carcano replica, PU scope for my Mosin Nagant, POSP for my WASR, and a Leatherwood 8x scope for my M1903 USMC sniper replica.

My 18" FDE AR has a Weaver KASPA 1.5-6x, which I feel is a good enough optic for what I intend to use the rifle for... but with the exception of the Leatherwood scope, which was $1,000 furnished and installed (included modifying the handguard and bolt), the Leupold Mk4 4.5-14x scope on my Remington Model Seven is the most investment into optics I've done... as I want to take that rifle out to 500+ yards.

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To be clear, no criticism intended if someone chooses to spend the $$ on an Aimpoint.  That would be ridiculous.  Of course everyone has their own cost/benefit analysis when it comes to these things and their is no right or wrong here.  Was just making the observation that, at least for me, it does seem that the current "cheap" red dots -- the Sig Romeo 5 being the best that I was able to find, at least based on reviews (to be confirmed after I've used it for a while) --  appear to be sufficient for ordinary civilian use including the remote possibility of defensive situations.  I could be wrong and as they say YMMV.  If you want to pay for the best -- and I have no doubt that a $500 Aimpoint is built to a higher standard than a $120 Sig Romeo 5 -- by all means have at it.

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