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ChrisS

Help point me towards my first shotgun

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Thank you all for the great insight. I may have to find a gunshow or two to see what's available. I actually don't mind bluing being worn, dings & scratches in the wood, etc. I actually prefer it. I restore old American axes as a hobby and am fond of the "history" imparted on objects. I purchased a beautiful new Best Made Company axe for $350 last year and it's still sitting in the crate- I'm using a 60 year old Plumb axe instead. Anyone looking to trade an old shotgun for a shiny new axe?!  

Sounds like I'll be passing on the sxs initially and making it my second purchase down the line.  

As a point of reference, I have looked at various ARs and found that a Ruger mini 14 feels much better in hand to me. My biggest concern with these guns is that I live in a townhouse with neighbors to either side of me and am wary of overpenetration. That is another reason why I was looking at the 410s/20s.

I looked at the cost of shells and am amazed by how expensive the 410 stuff is compared to 20. I plan on getting to the range quite a bit with it and would rather spend the money on time practicing vs just paying for the ammo.

 

keep 'em coming, and again, thanks!

 

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1 minute ago, ChrisS said:

Thank you all for the great insight. I may have to find a gunshow or two to see what's available. I actually don't mind bluing being worn, dings & scratches in the wood, etc. I actually prefer it. I restore old American axes as a hobby and am fond of the "history" imparted on objects. I purchased a beautiful new Best Made Company axe for $350 last year and it's still sitting in the crate- I'm using a 60 year old Plumb axe instead. Anyone looking to trade an old shotgun for a shiny new axe?!  

Sounds like I'll be passing on the sxs initially and making it my second purchase down the line.  

As a point of reference, I have looked at various ARs and found that a Ruger mini 14 feels much better in hand to me. My biggest concern with these guns is that I live in a townhouse with neighbors to either side of me and am wary of overpenetration. That is another reason why I was looking at the 410s/20s.

I looked at the cost of shells and am amazed by how expensive the 410 stuff is compared to 20. I plan on getting to the range quite a bit with it and would rather spend the money on time practicing vs just paying for the ammo.

 

keep 'em coming, and again, thanks!

 

You need to search the ballistics of 5.56.

over penetration is not what she said. There is a reason swat uses this....

jus sayen 

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Anything you shoot indoors that is generally considered to be an acceptable self defense round will penetrate CONUS construction materials. Your safe backstop in a self defense shooting is the bad guy. If you miss, the round will go and penetrate whatever it hits - that's true for rifle, shotgun, and pistol ammo.

FBI, ATF, and DEA Studies show that 5.56/.223 designed for indoor use (ex: Fed TRU 62gr soft nose) have less potential to seriously injure or kill than just about any other platform - after penetrating most modern US construction. That's not to say the projectile is incapable of killing someone after going through a wall, but it will have less energy and mass.

Do your research.

As far as Mini-14 v AR, there's a reason that very few people tasked with the possibility of shooting people as a job description carry an AR of some type vs a Mini. Again, due diligence and proper research will keep you informed and happy with your purchase.

 

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The downsides to a Mini 14 are they are less accurate than ARs and they don't have the accessory availability. Ballistics are all the same.  A Mini 14 is really a modern version of the M1 carbine.  I would not feel unarmed with a Mini 14  (much better armed than with a 410 btw) but if I had a choice I'd take an AR/M16/M4 into a fight.  In my case, it's because I've used them for nearly 50 years and have used them in serious social situations.  They've always worked for me.  Many of the stories you hear about the failures of the 5.56 and the AR design are just that, stories.

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2 minutes ago, GRIZ said:

The downsides to a Mini 14 are they are less accurate than ARs and they don't have the accessory availability. Ballistics are all the same.  A Mini 14 is really a modern version of the M1 carbine.  I would not feel unarmed with a Mini 14  (much better armed than with a 410 btw) but if I had a choice I'd take an AR/M16/M4 into a fight.  In my case, it's because I've used them for nearly 50 years and have used them in serious social situations.  They've always worked for me.  Many of the stories you hear about the failures of the 5.56 and the AR design are just that, stories.

Did they use AR' s in the crusades when you where there?

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Just now, Zeke said:

Did they use AR' s in the crusades when you where there?

Crossbows were the hot item then. Easier to train than archers.  Such an "assault weapon" of its time the Pope made it illegal to use crossbows against Christians.

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22 minutes ago, GRIZ said:

Crossbows were the hot item then. Easier to train than archers.  Such an "assault weapon" of its time the Pope made it illegal to use crossbows against Christians.

Good for you! Don't let that young pup land a punch. Just bury him in knowledge. :D

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4 minutes ago, Mrs. Peel said:

Good for you! Don't let that young pup land a punch. Just bury him in knowledge. :D

With age comes wisdom!

op! I'm soooo sorry! It's them! Not you, or me. It's like a bunch a rascals or sumtin 

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8 minutes ago, GRIZ said:

I dunno, you may be mistaking me for the other "Grand Master Griz".

Was that the guy that started 1812? Did you start 1812? Jeebus dude! You're a big deal!

On 7/5/2017 at 2:55 PM, ChrisS said:

I'm looking to purchase a 20g shotgun. Ideally I'd like to find a sxs coach but am open to other options. I'd prefer something older and not expensive as this will be my first shotgun and am not sure if I'll be sticking with a 20 or 410. My wife has a back injury and I'm sure she wouldn't like/be able to handle a 12. I originally started looking for a 410, but most of my research has led me to the 20. It will be used primarily for the range, but if something goes bump in the night, it would be handy to have as a backup. I'd prefer something with wood furniture as it comes across as less intimidating to the missus. She went to the range for the first time a week ago. She was a little overwhelmed by the selection of hand guns, so I started her with a .22 revolver and she handled it quite well. Once she became comfortable, I had her try a .38 revolver and she actually liked that more than the .22. I've got a Smith model 36 on hold until my permits show up, but wanted to put my feelers out there for a long arm. Should I not discredit the 410? Any makes/models I should be on the lookout for? There was a new sxs at the lgs but it was heavy as sin and the quality seemed to be mediocre at best. If anyone has any input on where to start looking, I'd love to hear what you have to say. thanks!

Ya, you'll lose you man card rocking an hd 410. 

Jus throwing that out there

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3 hours ago, GRIZ said:

We were peeing on socks and tying them to our face.  Works pretty good with chlorine but not so good with mustard gas.

My Father peed into a water-cooled .30 in Italy during Po Valley campaign.  Didn't worry about the rust, just trying to kill Krauts!

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2 hours ago, Smokin .50 said:

My Father peed into a water-cooled .30 in Italy during Po Valley campaign.  Didn't worry about the rust, just trying to kill Krauts!

My grandpa peed on dead Germans, right after he took their gun, belt buckle, armband, patches ECT. Lol

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If recoil is a factor for her back a semi is the way to go my wife shoots a sxs and has no problem when I get Winchester AA 20 ga with the feather on the box recoil is so light the box says not for use in semi autos. If home defense is not an issue look for a 28 ga, a black and blue wife is not usually a happy wife

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Low recoil buckshot is probably the best way to go.  Its the same load of buckshot, just coming out of the muzzle at 1200 fps versus the full-power load's 1400 or so fps.  Not a big difference on the receiving end, but the reduction in felt recoil is noticeable.   

http://www.bulkammo.com/bulk-12ga-ammo-12ga2-34buck00lrrioroyal-5

 

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On 7/5/2017 at 2:55 PM, ChrisS said:

I'm looking to purchase a 20g shotgun. Ideally I'd like to find a sxs coach but am open to other options. I'd prefer something older and not expensive as this will be my first shotgun and am not sure if I'll be sticking with a 20 or 410. My wife has a back injury and I'm sure she wouldn't like/be able to handle a 12. I originally started looking for a 410, but most of my research has led me to the 20. It will be used primarily for the range, but if something goes bump in the night, it would be handy to have as a backup. I'd prefer something with wood furniture as it comes across as less intimidating to the missus. She went to the range for the first time a week ago. She was a little overwhelmed by the selection of hand guns, so I started her with a .22 revolver and she handled it quite well. Once she became comfortable, I had her try a .38 revolver and she actually liked that more than the .22. I've got a Smith model 36 on hold until my permits show up, but wanted to put my feelers out there for a long arm. Should I not discredit the 410? Any makes/models I should be on the lookout for? There was a new sxs at the lgs but it was heavy as sin and the quality seemed to be mediocre at best. If anyone has any input on where to start looking, I'd love to hear what you have to say. thanks!

Soooo, wut ya get?

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Nothing yet. I have narrowed it down a bit, but not enough to pull the trigger on anything yet. In the running:

Stoeger 20g coach gun.

Mossberg 500 20g with an 18.5" barrel.

Henry .410 lever action carbine.

This is all subject to change, and im sure it will. 

 

 

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Decisions decisions.....I'm getting there.   Likely a Remington 11-87.  But I do like that Mossberg SPX
Probably going with the Remmy semi-auto though. HOWEVER....Just got a new batch of permits, so no guarantee the next purchase will be a long gun at all. Plus I'm still struggling with idea that I'll be copying Family Zeke with the 11-87. 

Jus sayin

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42 minutes ago, Bighungry618 said:

Decisions decisions.....I'm getting there.   Likely a Remington 11-87.  But I do like that Mossberg SPX
Probably going with the Remmy semi-auto though. HOWEVER....Just got a new batch of permits, so no guarantee the next purchase will be a long gun at all. Plus I'm still struggling with idea that I'll be copying Family Zeke with the 11-87. 

Jus sayin

Go mossberg and be like @Ray Ray...

cough

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This is an interesting thread - let's be realistic with the new guy - you are not going to be owning an AR AK type pattern rifle in this state for HD in about 6-10 weeks.  I do not want to derail this thread but to advise for a 5.56 for HD in an AR pattern - while I 100% agree is viable and in most instances preferable.

 

I will and would go to a 12G with 00Buck and Slug without an issue.  At least for what i have 'read' researched etc.....

 

Personally if I did not own a 590 already setup the way I like and want - I would go here.

 

 

 

I am not really a magpul kinda guy - i like old school wood and steel - :)

 

But depending on his surroundings - where he lives, etc. is any type of long gun viable? Shotgun or otherwise...?

 

Whatever tool you choose - use it - shoot it - pattern it - try it - see what it is like to wield it.  Many just buy what looks cool and think that the shiznit - shockwave anyone?  sheesh - my 590 20" had speed feed stock etc.  God I hated it, fit me like crap wouldnt present to the shoulder correctly IMO with that stupid ass rubber butt pad etc.

 

When I went to wood - a tad shorter - a tad lighter (if you can believe it) and it slipped into the shoulder pocket perfectly.

I am a big fan of shotguns for self defense - and not discounting WW1 trench warfare - a 12g with 000 or 00 buck is devastating and home distances and frankly if you had to reach out to 50 yds or so - a 1oz piece of lead is nothing to screw with.

 

We all have opinions likes assh*les and noses - ymmv.  :)

 

PS BTW - @GRIZ @High Exposure - have real world knowledge not keyboard commando stuff - pay attention.  ;)

 

 

 

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Well, I am not overly versed on SXS models out there right now but like everyone else has said, O/U, SXS and pump models you get the full recoil into the stock since there is no where else for it to go. In a semi a lot is soaked up by the bolt action so if recoil sensitivity is an issue, semi is the way to go. 

That said, using a limbsaver helps tremendously and putting one on a semi brings the recoil down to a light push. It’ll help even on an O/U, SXS or pump too. 

If you are still hooked on a SXS or O/U, I like the Weatherby Orion as a well made, not too expensive O/U (about $800) I have been looking at O/Us for a while now for clays shooting and they can get crazy expensive. The Weatherby seems to be a sturdy, jack of all trades type backed by a good warranty. I have heard mixed reviews on the lower priced Stevens 555, Mossberg Silver reserve and Stoeger Condors. Seems it’s tough to make a reliable, low cost O/U. Even Ruger hasn’t been able to crack that nut. 

I am kind of put off by the tactical style ones like the stoeger double defense or the Mossberg maverick HS-12. I like the way they look for what they are made to do they are a one trick pony though which means they’d never get used and I am not sure I’d want to defend myself with something I am not well practiced with.

I can take my Stoeger m2000 and go hunting (not a hunter but I could), clay shooting, whatever and use it for home defense when I am home just as well and have more shots on tap then an O/U or SXS and it cost well below either of those. That’d be the other argument for a pump or semi, in most of those you can get dedicated barrels for different things pretty easily and in most cases fairly inexpensively (Short ones for home defense, slug barrels, trap barrels, etc) 

just a few thoughts for you.

-Jim

 

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