Saw Marine 1 today!

[Zeke 5,504]

1 hour ago, 10X said:

He's in Bedminster until Aug 20, so there is a 10 mile no-fly zone, and a 30 mile highly-restricted zone until then (and every time he visits).    

It really sucks to be an airport, flight school, student pilot, or private pilot in NJ right now.

As opposed to before? Man you want a sectional? Fly out west it actually looks like the map. Not jus " yellow "

[Malice4you 627]

So, someone is in trouble again.  What sounded like 2 jets went over the house again.  I'm 11 minutes away from the golf course (driving), so wonder how often I'll be hearing/seeing this.

It was an F-15 this time, didn't see what the second aircraft was.

As always, love the sound.  Nothing else sounds like a twin engine fighter jet flying fairly low...

 

Anyone know what the penalties are for the pilot who violates this restricted airspace?

[10X 3,296]

1 hour ago, Malice4you said:

Anyone know what the penalties are for the pilot who violates this restricted airspace?

Well, you could get shot down.   Fortunately, no one has been trigger happy yet.

It's a pretty serious violation, though I've not heard first hand what has happened to anyone locally who violated the Temporary Flight Restriction (TFR).    The pilot would certainly have some explaining to do...sometimes almost immediately, as the intercept will instruct the pilot to land at the first available field, other times the pilot may be allowed to continue to their destination, but upon landing there they'll be questioned by local authorities.   For a first offense, my impression is that a 90 day suspension of the pilot certificate is typical, likely followed by a '709 Ride' with an FAA examiner before pilot privileges are restored.   

The NJ TFR has an inner 10 mile 'no-fly' ring, and an outer 30-mile 'lotsa lotsa restrictions' ring.   It may matter which the pilot violated, and why.   Pilots are required to get a flight briefing before every flight, which is one way you'd find out about the TFR.   Briefings are recorded or logged, so if a pilot fails to get one, penalties may be worse.   If, on the other hand, the briefer fails to mention the TFR (it's happened), the pilot may very well be off the hook.

FAA Intercept procedures are here:  https://www.faa.gov/news/safety_briefing/2015/media/Intercept-Procedures.pdf  After 9/11, they really started making sure pilots knew them.  For awhile you had to state for the record on every briefing that you were familiar them--kinda sobering, I thought.

[Malice4you 627]

Wow, thanks for the information.  I was under the impression the penalties for violating the airspace (and then being intercepted and complying) would have been even more severe...though I imagine having a heavily armed F15 or two a hundred feet off your wing is a memorable enough experience you are unlikely to ever do something like that again.  (And probably need a new set of pants upon landing)

[NJSigfan 218]

We heard the jets all day here in hunterdon.  First around 10am and then at 4/5 pm.  Definitely a cool site to see the jets in the air and definitely LOUD

[Malice4you 627]

49 minutes ago, NJSigfan said:

We heard the jets all day here in hunterdon.  First around 10am and then at 4/5 pm.  Definitely a cool site to see the jets in the air and definitely LOUD

So I DID hear them this morning.  I thought I did, but it was for nowhere near as long and I wasn't 100% certain as I was in the middle of doing other noisy things.  Neighbors here love to make noise, thought it was one of them again.

[10X 3,296]

In case anyone is interested in more detail of what happens when an aircraft is intercepted for violating the presidential TFR (temporary flight restriction), I attended a pilot briefing in Bedminster tonight.    It was put on by a local pilot association, the head of the Allentown TRACON (they control a huge chunk of airspace in Eastern PA/Western NJ, the secret service agent responsible for the team who handles airspace security over the president, and a Coast Guard pilot who is currently on duty flying intercepts in NJ.   The same air crews follow the president around, so they're normally based in DC, but could be here, Florida, NYC, wherever.

Since the inauguration, there have been over 130 TFR violations when Trump has been at the golf course, half resulting in military intercepts, the rest generally resulting in the aircraft being tracked until touchdown, where it is met by local police, who hold the pilot until a secret service agent gets there for the interview.  130 violations is an embarrassment (hence the seminar), because while the TFR is an enormous pain in the butt, there is no excuse for not knowing when the TFR is in effect.   That said, the top three excuses cited by pilots have been 'I didn't know the TFR was in effect', 'The Garmin gave me bad directions', and "I was just flying around the airport pattern, I know I was too low to show up on radar'.  New information (to me) was that whenever the president is here, there is airborne radar monitoring the TFR from afar.    One might normally be below the radar at 1200 feet or so, but they assured us that if the president is in Bedminster, they know if your wheels leave the runway.  They didn't talk about what kind of sanctions were being imposed, but as I'd noted in a post above, 'it depends'.

Interception of small aircraft (which have accounted for 90% of the violations) is normally done by an unarmed Coast Guard helicopter, flying out of Somerset Airport.   The copters actually have a digital message board on the right side of the fuselage, so that they can pull alongside the errant aircraft and type out instructions to the pilot if they aren't able to establish radio contact.   The armed fighters (which could be F15's, F16's, or F22's--all are used at different times) are often more of a backup, in case the helicopter doesn't immediately get the desired response from the trespassing aircraft.   This coming weekend, F22's will be on patrol.  At times, the fighters may get there first, but they have a hard time slowing down enough to pull along side a light plane.  There will always be two fighters; you won't see the one on your six.   The fighters can be VERY persuasive in getting a light plane to alter course.   There were a bunch of questions from the audience about what kind of screw up would it take to actually get shot down, and while the answers were evasive, the secret service did say that such a decision could only come down from very high up--they'd normally try to get a quick decision from the Secretary of Defense, and if he wasn't available, the call tree didn't go down many levels at all, like only down to a four star.

[1LtCAP 4,262]

it was a slip up for them to let the airborn radar thing out into the open..........but i understand why they had to. when i was in the air more often, these things used to piss me off........