National Reciprocity

[S&W39 31]

With the opposition President Trump has from his own party on many issues, I think this NR bill is going to die a slow death. You can expect opposition from the Dems that's a given but, the establishment Republicans really aren't on board with many of the Presidents views. Even some of the more conservative types such as Rand Paul, Tom Cotton, Mike Lee don't like the idea of federal control of gun rights. It's easy to feel that way if you're a resident of a state that is more gun tolerable. In NJ we try to maneuver our way around this maze by trying to get non resident ccw licenses just to feel that we accomplished something even if we don't travel that much. Thank you Governor Christie for probably giving us Murphy on a silver platter. This state is so entrenched with liberal legislators and knee jerk reactive politicians I just don't see a very bright future for gun owners in this state. A republican President with a majority house, senate and supreme court if things don't loosen up for us now it never will. I suppose this will be viewed as a very negative outlook but, hey I'm willing to listen to anyone or group that can convince me it's going to get better.

[Newtonian 453]

It's a miracle Trump has accomplished anything given the unprecedented level of shit he's taking. I give him a B+. The last president IMO with that high a rating was Eisenhower. His speech in Warsaw was, even with the military crap, the best speech by a US president in many decades. He has a set of brass ones that will not bust. I'm proud of him. 

Conservatives are against reciprocity because of federalism, which is a cute little charade. The natural or God-given right to self defense is codified in the 2nd Amendment, a Federal document. So IMO the feds have every right to intercede when regulation, which I believe in (but less and less when it comes to 2A), becomes persecution, confiscation, and outright denial. 

I see the upcoming election as another opportunity to recruit 1 million voters going to waste. Where is the NRA on this? You guys give them money every year to take credit for stuff they didn't do in other states. While you're writing your discounted lifetime membership check do you ask what they've done for us besides sanction training that you can't use or could otherwise get without their blessing? Minus the signet ring and faux enameled eagle-encrusted knife of course. 

[GRIZ 3,369]

I don't see this as a dying issue.  Just an issue Trump hasn't gotten to push through yet.  I have never seen or heard of a new POTUS being attacked from so many directions.  Most of the attacks are lies and fake news.

National Reciprocity is an important issue.  It's just not the most important to many Americans  living in states where they can carry in most states.  Trump has addressed issues like National Security and trying to get Congress off its assets on issues like healthcare.  These are important to most Americans.

The Feds are not controlling gun rights with national reciprocity.  They are affirming a right given in the COTUS that has been diminished over the years.  I hear people say NJ won't recognize natonal reciprocity.  NJ has no way to ignore Federal law.  They didn't like LEOSA that's been around for over 10 years now and has created zero problems any where.  LEOSA has trumped NJ law in so many ways.

What I can see NJ doing when reciprocity becomes Federal law is expanding the places one cannot carry.  Now the only places carry is forbidden is courthouses, schools, and casinos.  They will add bars, banks, the boardwalk, gatherings of 3 or more people, malls, shoe stores, pharmacies, and anything else they can think of.  Some of this will be contested.

Don't be ready to hand the state over to Murphy.  Trump wasn't supposed to win either.  

 

[Zeke 5,504]

5 minutes ago, GRIZ said:

I don't see this as a dying issue.  Just an issue Trump hasn't gotten to push through yet.  I have never seen or heard of a new POTUS being attacked from so many directions.  Most of the attacks are lies and fake news.

National Reciprocity is an important issue.  It's just not the most important to many Americans  living in states where they can carry in most states.  Trump has addressed issues like National Security and trying to get Congress off its assets on issues like healthcare.  These are important to most Americans.

The Feds are not controlling gun rights with national reciprocity.  They are affirming a right given in the COTUS that has been diminished over the years.  I hear people say NJ won't recognize natonal reciprocity.  NJ has no way to ignore Federal law.  They didn't like LEOSA that's been around for over 10 years now and has created zero problems any where.  LEOSA has trumped NJ law in so many ways.

What I can see NJ doing when reciprocity becomes Federal law is expanding the places one cannot carry.  Now the only places carry is forbidden is courthouses, schools, and casinos.  They will add bars, banks, the boardwalk, gatherings of 3 or more people, malls, shoe stores, pharmacies, and anything else they can think of.  Some of this will be contested.

Don't be ready to hand the state over to Murphy.  Trump wasn't supposed to win either.  

 

Shoe stores?

[GRIZ 3,369]

20 minutes ago, Zeke said:

Shoe stores?

That would probably make sense to a liberal.

[BobA 1,235]

20 minutes ago, Zeke said:

Shoe stores?

Sure.  You never heard of "shoe rage"?

[Zeke 5,504]

Just now, BobA said:

Sure.  You never heard of "shoe rage"?

Jus for kicks?

[PDM 91]

Or maybe the Republicans will want one legislative win on an important issue, and this is one that has much wider support than the healthcare bill.

[Newtonian 453]

Put yourselves in the Republicans' shoes for a moment. 94% come from states that grant carry permits in one form or another. 86% are from "shall issue" states. They don't get elected by us or Marylanders or Hawaiians, but by their constituents. Reciprocity won't help their voters nearly as much as it will help us. This is one bill on their agenda. 

[Zeke 5,504]

31 minutes ago, Newtonian said:

Put yourselves in the Republicans' shoes for a moment. 94% come from states that grant carry permits in one form or another. 86% are from "shall issue" states. They don't get elected by us or Marylanders or Hawaiians, but by their constituents. Reciprocity won't help their voters nearly as much as it will help us. This is one bill on their agenda. 

Then why so many cosponsors? Hmmn, point.....fail

[Zeke 5,504]

I'm not a proctologist, butt...

[Newtonian 453]

1 hour ago, Zeke said:

Then why so many cosponsors? Hmmn, point.....fail

I don't pretend to understand what goes on in Congress. I do know there's a reason it hasn't come up yet for a vote. 

Does my point...fail because the premise was wrong? Do you think a congressman in Nebraska believes that his constituents traveling to Camden is a big issue? Or that he gives a crap that the only way I can carry is by getting an out of state permit? What is your explanation for no vote?

[Zeke 5,504]

You should not pretend at all. It's your undueing

[Zeke 5,504]

Don Bacon re 2nd district Nebraska 

Adrian Smith 3rd district Nebraska 

 

I'm not a proctologist 

[Zeke 5,504]

I think I'm having a @High Exposure moment. Muscle 

[Zeke 5,504]

Pause..... owned!!!!

[voyager9 3,434]

Newton's point is valid. There are plenty of co-signers yet the bill hasn't been advanced.  There are two options: there are sticking points in the bill that are being negotiated to improve it passes the full legislature. The other option is it just isn't the priority. This is just as likely given they only work 3 days a month in DC. 

[Zeke 5,504]

3 minutes ago, voyager9 said:

Meets point is valid. There are plenty of co-signers yet the bill hasn't been advanced.  There are two options: there are sticking points in the bill that are being negotiated to improve it passes the full legislature. The other option is it just isn't the priority. This is just as likely given they only work 3 days a month in DC. 

Meets

for posterity 

[voyager9 3,434]

Newt's

 

BTW:  "Newt and the Zeeker" sounds like a Chinese ripoff of Sonic the Hedgehog.  Or some kind of furry porn. 

[Zeke 5,504]

18 hours ago, voyager9 said:

Newton's point is valid. There are plenty of co-signers yet the bill hasn't been advanced.  There are two options: there are sticking points in the bill that are being negotiated to improve it passes the full legislature. The other option is it just isn't the priority. This is just as likely given they only work 3 days a month in DC. 

What exactly have they done in 7 months?

Everytown and MDA is sayen Bloomberg $ have gotten to Ryan

others are saying Obamacare is top priority 

[Zeke 5,504]

The more worthy question, what have " we" done

[Zeke 5,504]

Better yet, what have " you" done?

[S&W39 31]

I think national reciprocity is a pipe dream. Trump obviously does not have much support from his own party after seeing how much trouble he has getting things done. Also he has recently certified the Iran deal where money was given to them by the previous administration. Yes, he told the NRA when he was running for President about all the great ways he'll support the 2nd amendment.Judging how he's capitulating on other issues I feel the reciprocity issue is never going to be taken seriously. Lets face it there's about 36 states that are already gun friendly they have no major reason to give NR much attention. In states like NJ people cling to the glimmer of hope that if they have a non resident CCW license they one day will have legal CCW in NJ. In NJ  people are taking these non resident classes which might be a good idea if you travel a lot. Unfortunately it doesn't really help much for the average NJ shooter. What I see is another profiteering industry cashing in on people who are hoping maybe one day to see NR. Do the research, to have a legal non resident CCW good for the surrounding states you'll need at least 3 licenses. The only people making out on this are the people giving the classes and the states your paying for non resident CCW.

[voyager9 3,434]

The states surrounding the anti-2A states have an interest in NR. It is their citizens who are getting jammed up when they travel. 

The sticky issue is the one brought up earlier. Federal vs States rights. The bill has to be written and supported in such a way to survive the inevitable challenge by the states. 

I don't put too much weight on the Healthcare stuff. It is an extremely complex, difficult, and patrician issue. It shouldn't be rushed through and can't be seen as an inability to work Trump's agenda. 

[Zeke 5,504]

15 minutes ago, S&W39 said:

I think national reciprocity is a pipe dream. Trump obviously does not have much support from his own party after seeing how much trouble he has getting things done. Also he has recently certified the Iran deal where money was given to them by the previous administration. Yes, he told the NRA when he was running for President about all the great ways he'll support the 2nd amendment.Judging how he's capitulating on other issues I feel the reciprocity issue is never going to be taken seriously. Lets face it there's about 36 states that are already gun friendly they have no major reason to give NR much attention. In states like NJ people cling to the glimmer of hope that if they have a non resident CCW license they one day will have legal CCW in NJ. In NJ  people are taking these non resident classes which might be a good idea if you travel a lot. Unfortunately it doesn't really help much for the average NJ shooter. What I see is another profiteering industry cashing in on people who are hoping maybe one day to see NR. Do the research, to have a legal non resident CCW good for the surrounding states you'll need at least 3 licenses. The only people making out on this are the people giving the classes and the states your paying for non resident CCW.

Then , I'll ask again, why so many co sponsor's ?

4 minutes ago, voyager9 said:

The states surrounding the anti-2A states have an interest in NR. It is their citizens who are getting jammed up when they travel. 

The sticky issue is the one brought up earlier. Federal vs States rights. The bill has to be written and supported in such a way to survive the inevitable challenge by the states. 

I don't put too much weight on the Healthcare stuff. It is an extremely complex, difficult, and patrician issue. It shouldn't be rushed through and can't be seen as an inability to work Trump's agenda. 

It's going to jus repeal. Which was passed by both houses in 15'. Jus sayen 

[GRIZ 3,369]

2 hours ago, S&W39 said:

I think national reciprocity is a pipe dream. Trump obviously does not have much support from his own party after seeing how much trouble he has getting things done. Also he has recently certified the Iran deal where money was given to them by the previous administration. Yes, he told the NRA when he was running for President about all the great ways he'll support the 2nd amendment.Judging how he's capitulating on other issues I feel the reciprocity issue is never going to be taken seriously. Lets face it there's about 36 states that are already gun friendly they have no major reason to give NR much attention. In states like NJ people cling to the glimmer of hope that if they have a non resident CCW license they one day will have legal CCW in NJ. In NJ  people are taking these non resident classes which might be a good idea if you travel a lot. Unfortunately it doesn't really help much for the average NJ shooter. What I see is another profiteering industry cashing in on people who are hoping maybe one day to see NR. Do the research, to have a legal non resident CCW good for the surrounding states you'll need at least 3 licenses. The only people making out on this are the people giving the classes and the states your paying for non resident CCW.

Pipedream?  I don't think so.  The concept may be hard to sell to some.  It took LEOSA  about 10 years from inception to becoming law.  Most of that 10 years was under the Clinton Administration.

25 years ago very few states had shall issue.  When I worked in AZ they had open carry but no CCW for any one. Now they have Constitutional Carry, open or concealed.  

There are now, by your count. 36 states that have shall issue.  If NR is passed many say that NJ will not recognize it.  NJ will have no choice but to accept it.

Getting a carry permit in NJ is a different issue than NR.  IL and DC had no way to get a carry permit until SCOTUS ruled differently.  Yes, both DC and IL tried some phony baloney stuff but the court told them to fix it.  You need the right kind of case to take it to SCOTUS.  Heller and McDonald were 

As far as SCOTUS goes Kennedy has said he was going to retire next year. Ginsberg may go at any time.  She couldn't stay awake during the State of the Union message.  That gives Trump at least one maybe two conservative justices to appoint.  That will give conservatives a 5-4 or even a 6-3 majority.  That will have positive effect on the country at least 20 years from now.

Pipedream?  I disagree.

[GRIZ 3,369]

As I said earlier in this thread.  Trump's immediate concern when he took office was National Security.  National Reciprocity has to take a backburner to that.  

Sorry that Trump hasn't gotten anyone their CCW...yet.

[S&W39 31]

Nothing to be sorry about 3/4 of the country have CCWS their not losing sleep on this issue they think states like NJ have ridiculous gun laws, just have a conversation with a gun enthusiast from out of state.  It's not only about Trump, it's the party that can't seem to work together. I supported Trump and I know things don't happen over night. I think he will get overwhelmed with inside party politics it will consume most of his agenda. Another factor is his own party appears to not be very enthralled with him almost as if their just tolerating him till his time is up. He's an outsider they don't want him. The NR issue will be left in the dust. I feel that Trump ran more as a populist than a republican, and he has never been a conservative if you look into his past political views. I think he was keyed into the NRA and that NR was a big issue with them. Fake news, CNN, the liberal media, after awhile that's going to wear thin. The republicans had 7 years to come up with a alternative health care plan and now they look clueless. There's much bigger issues than NR, but this is a gun forum and if we can't discuss it here where else can we go. NR never going to happen.

 

[capt14k 2,052]

National Carry will happen because the Second Amendment protects it. Keep and Bear means Own and Carry and it shall not be infringed. Just need the right court, which we will have when Kennedy retires, and the right case, for SCOTUS to clarify to the Communists what the Second Amendment really means.

Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk

[S&W39 31]

Fine the 2nd amendment, then where was it all these years?