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wadezky

9mm Carbine vs Shotgun vs AR......help me pick!

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I wasn't sure what section this should go in so I'm hoping it fits here.  Deciding on my next toy (or toys)..... Beretta CX4 storm carbine.... a Rem 870/Moss 590/comparable Benelli.....a S&W M&P sport 2 (which I used to own but sold because I couldnt really shoot it anywhere).  Main purpose will be HD but I also want it to be fun when going to the range.....thats why I previously sold my AR (couldn't shoot it anywhere) and that's why I think the Beretta makes the list (seems like it would be fun to shoot).

  It's only going to be 1 of the 3 shotguns I listed but I may get a shotgun AND an AR....or the CX4 AND a shotgun.....or whatever....not limiting myself to just 1 gun.  I could buy all 3 kinds if the responses and arguments are all positive on everything.

Oh....pump vs semi-auto shotgun?....I thinking prefer semi in case my wife needs to use it.

So please help me out....thoughts?  Pros and cons?  Another gun I should be looking at but am missing?  Thanks in advance.....hoping for some great conversations and advice here.

Edited by wadezky
Added pump vs semi point

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I would say the AR is the best.  If you can't shoot it at a lot of ranges, you can throw a .22LR conversion kit in.

Semi auto shotgun will be good but you need to maintain/clean them to make sure they fire/feed properly.

I love my Cx4 - it's a fun gun but I prefer keeping with the AR for Home Defense.

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Shotgun with 18'bbl, not a good range toy unless you are a masochist. 5 rounds of 00 buck and I'm done. Great for  HD though.  Unless you have a physical limitation, stick with the tried and true pump action.  Lots of options for ammo, reduced recoil, short shells, less than lethal, etc..

 

AR-15 , with the right ammo, it can be a good HD gun.  Though many indoor ranges are allowing AR's, you have to buy their ridiculously expensive frangible ammo.

 

Pistol caliber carbine, in my opinion, the most versatile for HD and range toy.  Ammo is cheaper, you can shoot it at almost any indoor range, will still be fun at the outdoor range, manageable recoil, less flash since pistol powder is designed to burn up fast in handgun length barrels.  Bonus; If you have pistols, you may find a carbine that uses the same magazines.  The only drawback, when compared to an AR, is less accurate.

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54 minutes ago, Krdshrk said:

I would say the AR is the best.  If you can't shoot it at a lot of ranges, you can throw a .22LR conversion kit in.

Semi auto shotgun will be good but you need to maintain/clean them to make sure they fire/feed properly.

I love my Cx4 - it's a fun gun but I prefer keeping with the AR for Home Defense.

Figured the AR would be best but I dont get the fun of being able to shoot it at any range.  Thats why the 9mm Carbine is so appealing to me.  I have tons of 9mm ammo and I can shoot it anywhere.

I can do either pump or semi auto shotgun, was thinking my wife may have trouble racking it so I mentioned it.  I'd be quite ok with a pump.

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31 minutes ago, Scorpio64 said:

Shotgun with 18'bbl, not a good range toy unless you are a masochist. 5 rounds of 00 buck and I'm done. Great for  HD though.  Unless you have a physical limitation, stick with the tried and true pump action.  Lots of options for ammo, reduced recoil, short shells, less than lethal, etc..

 

AR-15 , with the right ammo, it can be a good HD gun.  Though many indoor ranges are allowing AR's, you have to buy their ridiculously expensive frangible ammo.

 

Pistol caliber carbine, in my opinion, the most versatile for HD and range toy.  Ammo is cheaper, you can shoot it at almost any indoor range, will still be fun at the outdoor range, manageable recoil, less flash since pistol powder is designed to burn up fast in handgun length barrels.  Bonus; If you have pistols, you may find a carbine that uses the same magazines.  The only drawback, when compared to an AR, is less accurate.

Shotgun seems to be the tried and true HD gun but with the AR's and the ammo that they can use now that's definitely the way to go.  Then I wouldn't need to buy a shotgun too....although it would be fun to take it out once in awhile.

9mm carbine seems like it would be a crazy fun toy to take to the range.  My brother has a KelTec sub2k but I can't seem to get comfortable using it so thats why I'm looking into the CX4 storm.  Since I hopefully never need to actually use something for HD, I know I want to be prepared and at the same time I want to have fun at the range.

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1 hour ago, Scorpio64 said:

 short shells, less than lethal, etc..

Pistol caliber carbine,

The only drawback, when compared to an AR, is less accurate.

 

No no no... Why would you use less than lethal?  Or short shells?  Less than Lethal should not even be considered for HD.  Short shells can have issues as well.

PCC less accurate than an AR?  At HD Distances?  Not at all.  Even out to 50 yards...

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Why not a 9mm AR? I've been considering building one for HD.  If it takes the same mags as your pistol, even better.  If you already own a Beretta pistol, the storm makes more sense.  If you own a Glock you can go with a dedicated Glock lower.  I'm sure there are other lower options depending on what you currently own.  Mag compatibility is a big plus.

If you go with a shotgun, I've got a Knoxx Recoil Reducing stock on my 590 which makes it a very soft shooting gun, especially with Hornady Tap low recoil rounds.

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For pure HD use, my first choice is an AR with appropriate ammo and knowledge.

If using a shotgun Do not use LL for HD

As for range use - 

How about a pistol caliber AR? I have one that I assembled and takes any .40 Glock mags (27/23/22/35) same as my pistols. It runs like a top, is plenty accurate out past 50 yards, and is essentially an AR that I can shoot at any range and Steel comps.

oF5LFKE.jpg

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You can get a pistol caliber AR...

 

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Macon Armory did that for me... .45 D/I upper.

 

That is an older magazine adapter, which uses H&K USC magazines. Macon did a new magazine/adapter, which still fits a standard AR lower. They have 10 and 20 rounders, which are steel. I did ask Rudy (owner) about 15 rounders, but not following up with him since I'm moving out of state... have the adapter already, will order 20s when I move.

 

Going that route, or a 9mm with magazine adapter allows you to convert the rifle over to 5.56mm or anything else that doesn't use a proprietary magazine well.

 

If you want any info on CX4s or SUB-2000 Gen 2s, I do have one of each. I love pistol caliber carbines, just for the fun factor. Nevertheless, they can hold their own for home defense.

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To me a 9mm AR would be ideal but I don't want to attempt a build myself and I'm unsure if they even make a NJ compliant one....hell, I didnt even know there was such a thing til now.

I'm a CZ guy so I don't own any Berettas where I already have magazines but I've heard nothing but good things about the CX4 storm so I figured I'd give it a try

As far as anything goes for HD I would never even chance anything less than lethal....if I need to protect my family I won't settle for 2nd best.

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Screwball......

My brother has a KelTec sub2k in .40 and when I tried to shoot it I could not get comfortable and couldn't get the sites lined up right at all.   It seemed too small and cramped....something just wasn't right.  So then I was thinking CZ Scorpion or the Beretta but I'm pretty sure I'd have to have all sorts of work done to the CZ to make it NJ legal and also its ugly as all hell.  So the CX4 came out as my front runner in that category, but again mostly because of word of mouth.

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The CZ is nice and I'm going to get one, but going to be a purchase after I move, as I want to SBR and suppress. It is along the lines of a MP5 clone... 16" is legal, but makes the gun unwieldy. They were designed as short barreled.

I do get the size thing with the KelTec, but having such a compact carbine had me adapt to it. Someone does make a red-dot mount that swivels out of the way, allowing it to still fold... just need to bungee the bolt handle from hitting the lens when folded. I leave mine with irons, just press my face into the bolt tube.

TYphvKu.jpg

In regards to the CX4... very good carbine. Only thing, never pull the upper off the lower with the hammer down (fired). Can rip off the buffer and or guide rod... disabling the gun. SierraPapa does an aftermarket assembly, which I definitely recommend. Their trigger is nice (have one), but not necessary for the function of the rifle. Shoot it, and if the trigger bothers you, swap it out.

I actually prefer the CX4 over the KelTec (like controls and last shot bolt hold). I tossed the AR out because it sounded like you liked the AR, just not the caliber.

I'm not going to lie, Macon's uppers are a little pricey (think mine with the adapter was $950). But toss it on a lower with a carbine buffer, and you should be good to go. If you talk to Rudy at Macon, he will do his best to accommodate your needs. I talked to him about mine, as I needed to have the barrel compliant to NJ law. He did one with a target crown.

Blowback is another option, but a little more finicky than D/I (need to get the buffer weight correct). But shy of the two pins to attach the upper, only building I did was the lower. Not that difficult.

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3 minutes ago, Screwball said:

The CZ is nice and I'm going to get one, but going to be a purchase after I move, as I want to SBR and suppress. It is along the lines of a MP5 clone... 16" is legal, but makes the gun unwieldy. They were designed as short barreled.

I do get the size thing with the KelTec, but having such a compact carbine had me adapt to it. Someone does make a red-dot mount that swivels out of the way, allowing it to still fold... just need to bungee the bolt handle from hitting the lens when folded. I leave mine with irons, just press my face into the bolt tube.

TYphvKu.jpg

In regards to the CX4... very good carbine. Only thing, never pull the upper off the lower with the hammer down (fired). Can rip off the buffer and or guide rod... disabling the gun. SierraPapa does an aftermarket assembly, which I definitely recommend. Their trigger is nice (have one), but not necessary for the function of the rifle. Shoot it, and if the trigger bothers you, swap it out.

I actually prefer the CX4 over the KelTec (like controls and last shot bolt hold). I tossed the AR out because it sounded like you liked the AR, just not the caliber.

I'm not going to lie, Macon's uppers are a little pricey (think mine with the adapter was $950). But toss it on a lower with a carbine buffer, and you should be good to go. If you talk to Rudy at Macon, he will do his best to accommodate your needs. I talked to him about mine, as I needed to have the barrel compliant to NJ law. He did one with a target crown.

Blowback is another option, but a little more finicky than D/I (need to get the buffer weight correct). But shy of the two pins to attach the upper, only building I did was the lower. Not that difficult.

Oh I'd be OK with any caliber of an AR as long as I can use it at an indoor range.  9mm would be easiest for me because of the ammo supply I already have but I'm totally open to other calibers too....can always buy more ammo.

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I have a Mossberg 590 for HD. Pump action model #50668 8+1 with ghost ring sights.  I recommend a pump action since you don't have to be concerned with capacity or evil features.  A 12ga can be a real beast to shoot depending on what ammo you use.  Lot's of choices.  (As was expressed above, ignore "less lethal" ammo.)  However, mini-shells are an option for lower recoil for the wife and still very lethal.  E.g. Aguila 1.75" Mini-Shells(slugs).   Use an OPSol Mini-Clip with them to ensure reliable feeding. (www.OPSolmini-clip.com).

I also have a JR Carbine in 9mm Glock.  Very versatile firearm and it leverages my existing Glock magazines and 9mm ammo.

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7 minutes ago, oldguysrule649 said:

I have a Mossberg 590 for HD. Pump action model #50668 8+1 with ghost ring sights.  I recommend a pump action since you don't have to be concerned with capacity or evil features.  A 12ga can be a real beast to shoot depending on what ammo you use.  Lot's of choices.  (As was expressed above, ignore "less lethal" ammo.)  However, mini-shells are an option for lower recoil for the wife and still very lethal.  E.g. Aguila 1.75" Mini-Shells(slugs).   Use an OPSol Mini-Clip with them to ensure reliable feeding. (www.OPSolmini-clip.com).

I also have a JR Carbine in 9mm Glock.  Very versatile firearm and it leverages my existing Glock magazines and 9mm ammo.

Did you go in knowing you wanted a Mossberg or did you try out a bunch for feel 1st?  Based on what I know I've named the 3 shotguns I named just because I dont think I can wrong with any of them, but ultimately its going to come down to what feels the best.

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As best as I can recall, I did a bunch of online research and watched many You-Tube videos.  Narrowed it down to either a 590 or an 870.  Ultimately decided to go with the Mossberg.  Prior to purchase, I had not held nor fired a shotgun in 35 years!

Was concerned about recoil but took things slowly the first time to the range with it.  A 12 ga is defintely a beast to shoot depending on the ammo you choose.  Always brings a smile to my face. (Btw, I am 64 yo.)

 

 

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Oh I'd be OK with any caliber of an AR as long as I can use it at an indoor range.  9mm would be easiest for me because of the ammo supply I already have but I'm totally open to other calibers too....can always buy more ammo.


I'd personally can't make the right suggestion, going off of what you wrote. I have 4 ARs, not to mention multiple shotguns, pistol carbines, traditional rifles, pistols, revolvers, etc. With 51 firearms, I'd say get your collection moving...

Having to buy one, on the spot... an AR. That market is so saturated that you can get awesome deals. With the election coming up, I'd consider getting happy with your scary guns sooner rather than later. Don't know what Trenton will do with a Democrat governor... but I'd say pump shotguns should still be safe (unless they go after the KSG style).

If something occurs in NJ where you can't get new rifles, upper and magazine adapter... and you now have a new rifle. Can go from 5.56mm to 9mm or .45... or even something like .50 Beowulf or .458 SOCOM.

Really comes down to how fast you want to spend money, if you are staying in NJ, and how far down the road you want to look.

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12 minutes ago, Screwball said:

 


I'd personally can't make the right suggestion, going off of what you wrote. I have 4 ARs, not to mention multiple shotguns, pistol carbines, traditional rifles, pistols, revolvers, etc. With 51 firearms, I'd say get your collection moving...

Having to buy one, on the spot... an AR. That market is so saturated that you can get awesome deals. With the election coming up, I'd consider getting happy with your scary guns sooner rather than later. Don't know what Trenton will do with a Democrat governor... but I'd say pump shotguns should still be safe (unless they go after the KSG style).

If something occurs in NJ where you can't get new rifles, upper and magazine adapter... and you now have a new rifle. Can go from 5.56mm to 9mm or .45... or even something like .50 Beowulf or .458 SOCOM.

Really comes down to how fast you want to spend money, if you are staying in NJ, and how far down the road you want to look.

 

I understand.....I think because I'm so open to anything its gonna be tough for anyone to pin something down.  If I could take an AR to an indoor range I never would have sold the S&W and thats kind of why I'm in the boat I'm in.  Again, I don't mind buying 2 or 3 different guns right now as long as I can use them and they arent just safe queens.

Long term plan is to move to NC but it depends how much my kid loves or hates the new school district shes starting.  If she loves it then we're probably here for 9 years til shes out of high school.....if she hates it then we're out next summer.  Didn't want to spend a ton on a neutered AR if I can hopefully get an "evil" one in a year.

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I understand.....I think because I'm so open to anything its gonna be tough for anyone to pin something down.  If I could take an AR to an indoor range I never would have sold the S&W and thats kind of why I'm in the boat I'm in.  Again, I don't mind buying 2 or 3 different guns right now as long as I can use them and they arent just safe queens.
Long term plan is to move to NC but it depends how much my kid loves or hates the new school district shes starting.  If she loves it then we're probably here for 9 years til shes out of high school.....if she hates it then we're out next summer.  Didn't want to spend a ton on a neutered AR if I can hopefully get an "evil" one in a year.


I'm on Tapatalk, so can't see your profile, but what district, if you don't mind me asking?

I was big on staying in NJ, but economically... it wasn't in the cards. Was in the application process for NJSP, but something medically came up and I withdrew. While I respect all the members of the NJSP, it was probably the best thing to happen to me. The pay increases told just aren't occurring. While I could make it work, taxes in Howell just keep going up. Was going to apply again when another process opened up, as I had the medical stuff squared away, but talked to a few guys in there... and none of them recommended it in my position. Put in for a few CBP positions, got a 97 on the one in ME, and has been going extremely well thus far.

Another option for us was the Carolinas, as her family is all down that way. I really don't know income levels outside of L/E, but housing is SO MUCH cheaper. Taxes, as well. And this includes both ME and NC... as I really wasn't too fond of SC (unrelated reasons). We were looking at housing in ME... specifically Houlton, and $290,000 gets you a somewhat modern 4 bedroom home, on 125 acres. Taxes are under $3,000. We are paying over that (in taxes) on a 0.25 acre lot in Howell, with a Cape Cod. The position pays about what entry level L/E in NJ starts at, and I have a general idea of pay increases. Am I definitely going to stay there? Maybe... but in regards to finances, it is a good place to be. For my one hobby... firearms... I can have a lot more fun there than NJ. Already have an idea on longer ranges (600 yards), and if I did a 125 acre property, could setup my own range. No pistol permits, no one handgun a month, a C&R license that can be utilized correctly, and an AR that can have a collapsible stock and bayonet lug.

Trust me, living in NJ all my life, I wouldn't want to be taken out of school at 9. But if it gets worse (sorry to say, I think it will... and not just 2A stuff), and you decide to move at 14-16, that sucks even more. My parents are here for my grandfather (mothers side), but likely moving to NC once they can (she needs to do a few more years before retiring; he did already, but still working).

I'd really evaluate why you want to stay, and consider moving if you really want to. Considering doesn't mean putting stuff up for sale and giving notice, but have a serious conversation regarding it and see if it something that you might want to move forward with. While it has no real barring on the subject on which gun to get, why buy something NJ compliant if you can get one that isn't? I've put all my gun expenses on stuff I'd do if I was out of state, anyways.

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4 hours ago, wadezky said:

I understand.....I think because I'm so open to anything its gonna be tough for anyone to pin something down.  If I could take an AR to an indoor range I never would have sold the S&W and thats kind of why I'm in the boat I'm in.  Again, I don't mind buying 2 or 3 different guns right now as long as I can use them and they arent just safe queens.

Long term plan is to move to NC but it depends how much my kid loves or hates the new school district shes starting.  If she loves it then we're probably here for 9 years til shes out of high school.....if she hates it then we're out next summer.  Didn't want to spend a ton on a neutered AR if I can hopefully get an "evil" one in a year.

Yes it sucks that we have them and they do absolutely nothing to enhance gun safety, but other than mag capacity issues, the restrictions we have really don't matter too much when looking at the big picture for someone that wants a standard AR.

If you put a FF tube in your AR you are losing the bayonet lug anyway.

Most shooters want some kind of a comp or break, and if pinned correctly, you can take it off and replace it. If you are getting a 14.5" gun you have to pin your muzzle device of choice anyway.

For a stock, get the Magpul Fixed Carbine Stock. It slides on over a standard receiver extension. Nothing to pin. When you move in screw it and slap a regular adjustable stock on there. Besides, personally, I know where I like my stock. I have no need to adjust them once they are set where I want them.

If you want an AR, buy an AR for the here and now. You can easily convert it back to free state specs, or sell it here and recoup your money.

 

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This is a trick question, of course you need to buy all 3 and at the same time. If you have to drop 1, do not get a neutered AR.  After I moved first thing I bought was real toys for my neutered one. New mags, folding stock, and a new mid length free float upper with cool looking suppressor. Get the MP15-22 as it's fun and you can remove the pin when you move 

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3 minutes ago, SW9racer said:

This is a trick question, of course you need to buy all 3 and at the same time. If you have to drop 1, do not get a neutered AR.  After I moved first thing I bought was real toys for my neutered one. New mags, folding stock, and a new mid length free float upper with cool looking suppressor. Get the MP15-22 as it's fun and you can remove the pin when you move 

I'm totally willing to buy all 3!!  The 22...really?   I've heard its a blast to use but I've never been a 22 guy

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9 hours ago, wadezky said:

Good thought....wasn't even considering that

9mm carbine if you don’t want to build your own.  Least expensive stag 9T, I had one and sold it because I bought a Sig Sauer MPX-P and an HK SP5K which aren’t NJ legal. Mid range you can get a Sig 9mm MCX and most expensive is the Wilson Combat 9mm AR that takes Glock mags.  

All of them are fun.  The stag takes colt mags, the Sig is proprietary and the Wilson takes glocks.  I’ve shot all 3 of them and if you can afford near 2k the Wilson is worth it.  If not I didn’t see much difference between the MCX and the stag other than appearance.   The stag has the diamond head rail which is really nice and should be well below 1k.  

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11 minutes ago, Rob0115 said:

9mm carbine if you don’t want to build your own.  Least expensive stag 9T, I had one and sold it because I bought a Sig Sauer MPX-P and an HK SP5K which aren’t NJ legal. Mid range you can get a Sig 9mm MCX and most expensive is the Wilson Combat 9mm AR that takes Glock mags.  

All of them are fun.  The stag takes colt mags, the Sig is proprietary and the Wilson takes glocks.  I’ve shot all 3 of them and if you can afford near 2k the Wilson is worth it.  If not I didn’t see much difference between the MCX and the stag other than appearance.   The stag has the diamond head rail which is really nice and should be well below 1k.  

Rob...shot you a message

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2 hours ago, wadezky said:

I'm totally willing to buy all 3!!  The 22...really?   I've heard its a blast to use but I've never been a 22 guy

It's the one rifle that won't make you cry after a dozen mag dumps in a row! Loads of fun, and you can outfit it with inexpensive knock-offs of all the tacti-cool looking stuff

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