Sig P320 issues...

[raz-0 1,259]

18 hours ago, GRIZ said:

I find it interesting there are so many people who believe Sig couldn't screw something up.  Anyone can screw something up.

It's not that I didn't believe sig couldn't screw something up, it's just that absent quality content demonstrating some effort to verify a statement, the internet is full of lies, trolling, and general bullshit. 

Case in point, the initial video claiming to demonstrate this has to date not been able to be reproduced by anyone. What was demonstrated was a different drop angle. 

This whole thing makes me curious as to just how drop safe most guns are. I have a pretty good idea with regard to glock, the sig 320 at this point, and series 70 1911s. but not much else other than what's on the CA DOJ roster vs. their test. 

 

[Vicious 138]

Lol, just read TFB article. I really hope that they do a buy back. Then I can get my M.O.S. G19.

I still kind of like the gun though.

[GRIZ 3,369]

2 hours ago, raz-0 said:

It's not that I didn't believe sig couldn't screw something up, it's just that absent quality content demonstrating some effort to verify a statement, the internet is full of lies, trolling, and general bullshit. 

Case in point, the initial video claiming to demonstrate this has to date not been able to be reproduced by anyone. What was demonstrated was a different drop angle. 

This whole thing makes me curious as to just how drop safe most guns are. I have a pretty good idea with regard to glock, the sig 320 at this point, and series 70 1911s. but not much else other than what's on the CA DOJ roster vs. their test. 

 

There is a lot of shooting from the hip without evidence on a variety of issues. A lot of it is when cops do something that has the appearance of bad.  If a LEO suggests "there's more to this story" many respond "that's what all cops say".

The same people who insist police all wear body cams bitch and moan when police don't give someone a break.

One thing I've learned as a LEO is not to pass judgement on something until I get all the facts.  I don't make a judgement on some preconceived notion of someone or something.

[Ray Ray 3,566]

 

[Purple Patrick 638]

They can't even proof read.... spot the error


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[PK90 3,570]

Who cares if the gun goes off if dropped. How about holding onto the gun and not drop it like an idiot. Do we need another stamp on the gun, like "read the owners manual" and "fires without the mag". 

[Vlad G 345]

42 minutes ago, PK90 said:

Who cares if the gun goes off if dropped. How about holding onto the gun and not drop it like an idiot. Do we need another stamp on the gun, like "read the owners manual" and "fires without the mag". 

Sorry but that is very wrong argument to make. Guns get dropped. A lot. I've seen people drop their guns because they were running around and slipped, or hit their elbows on items, or because someone behind them picked up an object quickly and in the process yanked the gun out of the holster, because someone kneeled to quickly near a table and the grip caught a table edge, etc. 

 

Guns get dropped, not everyone shoots from a static firing line under ideal conditions. 

[GRIZ 3,369]

1 hour ago, PK90 said:

Who cares if the gun goes off if dropped. How about holding onto the gun and not drop it like an idiot. Do we need another stamp on the gun, like "read the owners manual" and "fires without the mag". 

I rarely disagree with you but will on this.

This is supposed to be a self defense gun.  There are a variety of reasons it might be dropped or slammed hard that have nothing to do with negligence.  Not only dropped but what if you take a hard fall with your gun in the holster.

The first "drop" incident causing the manufacturer to make modification , IIRC, l was when a sailor dropped his Victory model S&W and died.  The S&W design was around for maybe 50 years at the time and didn't surface as an issue until then.  S&W modified the Victory models and still use that design.

 

 

[Persona non grata 113]

2 hours ago, PK90 said:

Who cares if the gun goes off if dropped. How about holding onto the gun and not drop it like an idiot. Do we need another stamp on the gun, like "read the owners manual" and "fires without the mag". 

Shit happens. That's why.

As for the second part, my VP9 is stamped with "Warning Refer to Operator's Manual" on the bottom of the trigger guard.  At least they had the wherewithal to use the word "operator" so it makes me feel like a special ops badass. 

[bhunted 887]

Next time I get into my safe, I'm gonna Gibb slap every semi I own, (except my 1911s) and see if they go off.

You don't need anything more than a snap cap and rubber mallet or nylon tip gunsmith hammer. We shall see.


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[High Exposure 5,661]

Sig has already had to deal with this when a cop dropped a Sig 220 that went off and shot him in the head and killed him.

No, you shouldn't drop a pistol.

But sometimes you have to use your hands when they are wet, bloody, injured, etc... Sometimes you trip and fall and you have to run and slide with a gun. Sometimes good guys get shot and guess what - they drop their guns.

The only time a gun should go off is when you press the trigger. You shouldn't have to worry about your gun going off if it hits the floor.

[GRIZ 3,369]

For those of us who weren't born yet, back in the 70s there was concern about the 1911 going off when dropped.  No Internet in those days so no way of verifying it actually happened to anyone. 

HP White Laboratories drop tested 1911s and found if it would discharge with the safety on due to the inertia firing pin.  Never heard of this actually happening other than in a laboatory but it convinced Colt to introduce the firing pin safety on the Series 80.  Most,  if not all, 1911 manufacturers have followed.

Although it's mostly retired, I have no reservations about carrying my Series 70 Commander.

[High Exposure 5,661]

[bhunted 887]

Don't make me started playing the blown up Glock cards my friend. [emoji6]

I will expose you to everyone that you are a stock holder in Glock and Surefire.
[emoji23]


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[Zeke 5,504]

38 minutes ago, bhunted said:

 

Don't make me started playing the blown up Glock cards my friend.

I will expose you to everyone that you are a stock holder in Glock and Surefire.



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Do it

[PK90 3,570]

It's a good thing that jcpg didn't have a P320 exactly 5 years ago.

1 hour ago, High Exposure said:

 

[High Exposure 5,661]

Just throw it over the berm!

[Zeke 5,504]

Just now, High Exposure said:

Just throw it over the berm!

I hate to laugh at this

[bhunted 887]

Here we have a new Syfy called Glocknado....

Look at those teeth!

 

Here is one that landed on a rubber tire.

 

Whoa! Another Syfy. When will it end?

Here we have a 40 ' Glockaconda. Imagine your ribs breaking as it crushes you.

 

[emoji23][emoji23][emoji23][emoji23][emoji481][emoji23][emoji23][emoji23][emoji6]

 

 

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[Smokin .50 1,907]

WOW John!  From the looks of those pix it appears my black powder Cap & Ball revolver, with chambers loaded to the max, is in fact, SAFER than a Glock (and my revolvers use EXPLOSIVES instead of smokeless powder)  

Anything mechanical can break.  General George S. Patton was at a dinner party with his girlfriend.  Patton's cocked & locked(?) 1911 was being carried "Mexican Style" (no holster, gun in waistband).  During dinner, it somehow became dislodged & fell to the floor, discharging.  Patton yelled for everyone to hit the deck because someone fired a shot at the dinner party!!!  None of them knew the truth 'cept for Patton.  It was at THAT time Patton decided to opt for his soon-to-be-famous Model 1873 Single Action Colt .45 Peacemakers chambered in .45 Long Colt (.45LC today).  

[blksheep 466]

The funny thing is, the 320 isnt/hasnt/wont be around long enough to be involved in anything like those pictures.  Muwhahahaha

[bhunted 887]

Typical Glock-A-Holics..... Want some more Koolaid?

[bhunted 887]

10 hours ago, Smokin .50 said:

WOW John!  From the looks of those pix it appears my black powder Cap & Ball revolver, with chambers loaded to the max, is in fact, SAFER than a Glock (and my revolvers use EXPLOSIVES instead of smokeless powder)  

Anything mechanical can break.  General George S. Patton was at a dinner party with his girlfriend.  Patton's cocked & locked(?) 1911 was being carried "Mexican Style" (no holster, gun in waistband).  During dinner, it somehow became dislodged & fell to the floor, discharging.  Patton yelled for everyone to hit the deck because someone fired a shot at the dinner party!!!  None of them knew the truth 'cept for Patton.  It was at THAT time Patton decided to opt for his soon-to-be-famous Model 1873 Single Action Colt .45 Peacemakers chambered in .45 Long Colt (.45LC today).  

For sure..... Anything can.... That is my point.... but don't bash the Glockoids...
In Patton's case, guess the Swartz wasn't with him that day. LMAO...

 

[High Exposure 5,661]

So... Should I start posting pics of Kaboomed Sigs? They are out there you know.... And 1911s, and S&Ws, and HKs, and revolvers, and, and, and..... you get the idea. But that's not what this is about.

This thread is about Sig and their latest fuckup and their following coverup of said fuckup.

Some key statements that have me 99% convinced Sig is sucking it hard on this issue and knows it:

"SIG SAUER is offering these enhancements to its customers." Emphasis mine.

I get that this may be legalese, but they should not be OFFERING this as an ENHANCEMENT when without it the weapon is unsafe. They also refer to it as a "Voluntary Upgrade" when referring to the MHS version of the pistol.

That language implies that this is not a necessary and mandatory change to ensure a safe firearm.

Further, I won't be surprised if the "plan" includes paying for shipping and/or waiting an exorbitant amount of time to get my pistol back.

"The M17 variant of the P320, selected by the US. Government as the US. Army’s Modular Handgun System (MHS), is not affected by the Voluntary Upgrade."

So is this because Sig submitted a version of the 320 that isn't subject to this flaw? That would imply they knew about this problem a year ago at least and did nothing about it until "caught". Or is it because they intend to change the design of the pistol before supplying them?

Sig is stating that this is an inherent problem in all firearms. For their first time ever they printed a drop warning in their product manuals. But they didn't know? C'mon.

The other part that disturbs me is that the Dallas PD memo is leaked on 08-03-2017, Which Mr Grey then issues a rebuttal to and on 08-07-2017 the video by Omaha Outdoor is released showing that there is a issue.  Then on 08-08-2017 they have an ironclad fix........

If the fix has been designed and tested, then they had to know about this for months.  There is no way that in 24 hours they designed a fix and tested it to satisfaction. There is no possible way.

Personally, I would not trust a company that sold me a known defective product to  now fix it for me. They have lied. They have ridiculed those who pointed out the flaw. They are calling the repair of a major safety hazard an "Upgrade" "enhancement" and "voluntary".

Clownshoes.

[bhunted 887]

First, I'm not trying to start a pissing match. But all is fair in love and war. Now you started the satire stuff.

 

I take all this very seriously, but you always seem to jump in and make Glock or Surefire the top turd to solve all problems. For once, let me see you recommend something outside of Glock and Streamlight.

 

My argument with you is there seems to never be a second place winner. You don't always realize that John Q. are not all hard runners in the field. There is nothing wrong with Streamlight. There is nothing wrong with Glocks either but you never defend any second place holders.

 

If every gun was that bad, we would not have the plethora of guns in peoples possessions that we do. Many of which they are very happy with. I've had Colts, HKs, Beretta, Remington, etc for years. Some where ran harder than others, but never catastrophic failures. Hell, worse case I had was a Browning Hi-Power that blew a sear and went full auto. Startled the hell out of me. Easy fix and back to normal.

 

I'm not saying there are not catastrophic failures. With the age of the internet and more gun owners than ever, we are more likely to see more failures. Maybe there were a lot before the internet and because lack of media, we never knew about them. Look how many times Elmer Fudd blew up his shot gun.[emoji6]

 

So yea, show me different guns that blew their cookies. Could care less. I know they are there. But you are running a major Lemonade Stand on a corner without a permit and secretly selling Koolade from under the stand and nothing else. Get my drift?

And just because you know or seen handfuls of Kimber failures, Sigs, etc., compared to the enormous multitude of any given model in the field, your witnessed scenarios are a flea on this planets arse. Hard to find with the Hubble at that. [emoji57]

 

My advice to anyone? Going to run it hard, just want to be a fanboy or scared anything else will poop its pants. Buy a Glock.

Otherwise, when you do ask someone what to buy, do your homework first. Then come here, explain what you want to use it for and get opinions. Just remember the cliche about opinions.

 

[emoji16]🕺🏻🕺🏻🕺🏻Tadaa!

Now that I got that off my chest. Carry on. [emoji51]

 

 

 

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[High Exposure 5,661]

John, This ain't about catastrophic failures that can happen in any gun. This ain't about Glock vs Sig - oh, by the way I believe you brought Glock into this conversation. It was not me. I never once mentioned any company other than Sig . This isn't about duty guns vs recreational guns or hard use vs plinking or any of that crap.

This is about a known flaw that is dangerous and unacceptable in any gun for any purpose. A design that should never have made it into a production guns. Something that it appears Sig knew about but tried to keep quiet as they rolled out a fix disguised as an "option" or "enhancement". Something that they now state is no big deal as it happens to every striker fired gun - which is total bullshit. Check your HK, S&W, Glock, CZ, Kahr, or whatever manual, and see if there is a warning that states the gun will go off if dropped. Go ahead I will wait. Sig has it in their manual for the first time ever, right there on Page 25. Gee, I wonder if they knew there was an issue? Of course they did, they had enough time to print it in their manual! And they still rolled them out to the public.

You may be OK being treated that way by a company. I am not.

Sig was great until Cohen took over. He ruined Kimber chasing the almighty dollar by cutting corners and producing a shoddy version of what was once a quality and well made 1911 pistol. Thankfully Kimber is finally recovering since he left. Their newer pistols have been running well from what I am hearing and seeing. Now he is at Sig and he is ruining them same way.

 

 

^^^ The best part is the shield guy is running an older Sig. You know, one that won't go off if dropped.  

 

[Ray Ray 3,566]

I've said it before and I'll say it again.   In 2004, it was Glock and Surefire.  But people act like Sig and H&K and Beretta haven't been doing this long enough.  Those three alone have been arming men when Gaston was swimming in his fathers nutsack.  It's 2017, and Glock isn't top dog anymore.  

And yes, Sig will fix this and yes they still have the military contract.  So let it go Glock guys, because in the end WHO THE FUCK CARES.

[High Exposure 5,661]

WTF does this situation have to do with Glock? Did Gaston sneak into Sig and change the plans? Did he pay an engineer to design a faulty trigger or striker safety? Did he disguise himself as a Sig PR rep to try to cover it up or hack their twitter/instagram/bookface?

Just because I shoot Glocks does that mean I can't say another manufacturer is jacked up or made a mistake or designed an unsafe product?

This is about Sig. Full Stop. Period. The end. This is no more about Glock than it is about HK or Beretta or any other manufacturer.

 

[Ray Ray 3,566]

48 minutes ago, High Exposure said:

WTF does this situation have to do with Glock? Did Gaston sneak into Sig and change the plans? Did he pay an engineer to design a faulty trigger or striker safety? Did he disguise himself as a Sig PR rep to try to cover it up or hack their twitter/instagram/bookface?

Just because I shoot Glocks does that mean I can't say another manufacturer is jacked up or made a mistake or designed an unsafe product?

This is about Sig. Full Stop. Period. The end. This is no more about Glock than it is about HK or Beretta or any other manufacturer.

 

Because these topics are fun to discuss and people get heated.

Also, neither you nor I own a Sig pistol so does this all really matter?

 

[High Exposure 5,661]

35 minutes ago, Ray Ray said:

Because these topics are fun to discuss and people get heated.

Also, neither you nor I own a Sig pistol so does this all really matter?

 

I think it matters.

It matters when a neighboring agency is planing on buying Sigs.

It matters when teammates are planing on buying one and using it for work.

It matters when my officers show up at the range with one to qualify as an off duty gun.

It matters if a brother or sister forum member gets injured because they accidentally drop their new Sig.